The Wall

[Make Angels Great Again]

1 minute ago, mtangelsfan said:

I didn't say all and if you think building a wall is going to be simple you are nuts.  Much of the border is on privately owned land.  

 

My bad, didn't mean to put words in your mouth.

So not all troops, but some. It's still not easily accomplished, and i'd argue more difficult than the wall. I agree it should be done though.

[Kevin]

48 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

I don't think building a wall is as complicated as recalling all our troops and putting them at the border, personally.

As someone who has worked on federal government projects, I can promise you a lot of money is wasted on simple things. Installing and re-installing due to mistakes. Government, as much as they love to spend money, also likes to go with the cheapest bidder. Which is why you don't always get the best product and have to spend more money to fix something (depending on warranties).

So it isn't just a simple task of building a wall.

[Tank]

1 hour ago, mtangelsfan said:

You could say that about the wall as well.

building a wall wouldn't take troops away from another part of the world and the security work they're doing there, so i'm not sure these are equivalent things.

[Taylor]

I'd love to see a scientific study that proves whether or not a wall would actually be effective in deterring illegal immigration.

[mtangelsfan]

36 minutes ago, Tank said:

building a wall wouldn't take troops away from another part of the world and the security work they're doing there, so i'm not sure these are equivalent things.

I wouldn't call it security.  More like intimidation and murder

[Jason]

32 minutes ago, Taylor said:

I'd love to see a scientific study that proves whether or not a wall would actually be effective in deterring illegal immigration.

I guess they will have to build one so we can study it. As long as it has a significant impact (whatever that means), I'd support it. Even with a wall there needs to be a increase in border patrol monitoring as well.

[UndertheHalo]

I genuinely don’t understand why people are so insistent that we have a massive problem on the Mexican border that requires strong intervention.  

In what ways will the “wall” fundamentally change anything in this country ? If we need to ramp up drug interdiction there’s other likely far more effective ways to do it.  The cartels are extremely well funded.  They’re gonna get around the stupid wall.  The coyotes will figure out other ways to get people across the border again, because there is money to be made and they’ll figure it out.  From what I understand they already tunnel under the border.  Most illegals enter this country entirely legally through border crossings.  Crossing through the desert is actually pretty fucking daunting.  Most wont risk it.  The wall is a simpletons solution. 

Edited March 15, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[Blarg]

Right, a wall is a simpleton solution for a country with so much technology. 

Hidden turrents with motion detectors and heat imaging for the night time to take out anything larger than a coyote should do the trick.

[UndertheHalo]

45 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Right, a wall is a simpleton solution for a country with so much technology. 

Hidden turrents with motion detectors and heat imaging for the night time to take out anything larger than a coyote should do the trick.

You’re having a laugh but seriously.  There are far more efficient ways to tackle the issues.  The wall is a symbol and not much else. 

Edited March 15, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[Blarg]

Doing abosolutely nothing decade after decade is reaping so many rewards.

[InsideThePark]

So, build that wall?

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

2 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

You’re having a laugh but seriously.  There are far more efficient ways to tackle the issues.  The wall is a symbol and not much else. 

There are far more efficient ways but when the feds don't enforce the laws for decades then they finally start to and some cities won't cooperate (see sanctuary cities, Oakland mayor, etc) those efficiencies disappear.  I think an actual wall is a joke but enforcing the laws and securing the border aren't.  I'd settle for the authorities coming down hard on anyone who employs illegals, making the path to citizenship easier and a realistic quota as far as how many people can become citizens each year.  Unfortunately that appears to be a pipe dream given what we've seen out of both sides the last so many years. 

[Lhalo]

Walls don't work. That's why prisons don't have walls. 

[UndertheHalo]

yea thats a great analogy.

[UndertheHalo]

2 hours ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

There are far more efficient ways but when the feds don't enforce the laws for decades then they finally start to and some cities won't cooperate (see sanctuary cities, Oakland mayor, etc) those efficiencies disappear.  I think an actual wall is a joke but enforcing the laws and securing the border aren't.  I'd settle for the authorities coming down hard on anyone who employs illegals, making the path to citizenship easier and a realistic quota as far as how many people can become citizens each year.  Unfortunately that appears to be a pipe dream given what we've seen out of both sides the last so many years. 

I agree with you on these points.  The border should be vigilantly monitored.  People who break the law should be punished.  As far as illegal immigration goes, particularly those who encourage it by employing people who cant legally work here.  The penalties should be stiff, and im fine with that.  I also am troubled by the sanctuary city stuff because i think thats a whole can of worms that we don't want to follow through opening.  The supremacy of federal law must be respected.  I don't agree with much of the GOP's immigration stance and I think that if the justice department is directing immigration enforcement to do things that are unconstitutional that cities should fight those battles in the courts.  Operating in fashion that is completely outside of the law just doesn't work however.  Its hard to see sanctuary cities really doing anything other then that.  Even if i do agree with the spirit of their rationale on some level (not entirely).  I'll point out here that red states do the exact same shit with things they don't like.  Like abortion.  It does feel like the country is slowly but surely unraveling.  More rapidly now it seems like.  Anyway, thats another discussion.

The wall is moronic.  It wont work practically for many of its intended purposes and I despise the symbolism of it.  If built its just a gigantic monument to being retarded.  But hey, they won.  Build the stupid fucking thing.

Edited March 15, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[Tank]

6 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

I genuinely don’t understand why people are so insistent that we have a massive problem on the Mexican border that requires strong intervention.  

In what ways will the “wall” fundamentally change anything in this country ? If we need to ramp up drug interdiction there’s other likely far more effective ways to do it.  The cartels are extremely well funded.  They’re gonna get around the stupid wall.  The coyotes will figure out other ways to get people across the border again, because there is money to be made and they’ll figure it out.  From what I understand they already tunnel under the border.  Most illegals enter this country entirely legally through border crossings.  Crossing through the desert is actually pretty fucking daunting.  Most wont risk it.  The wall is a simpletons solution. 

there are sections where we already have a wall. it would be worth knowing how effective it is (or isn't) at deterring illegal crossings.

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, Tank said:

there are sections where we already have a wall. it would be worth knowing how effective it is (or isn't) at deterring illegal crossings.

which is another reason why its stupid.  Theres already "walls" or "fences" the main reason why there isn't more is logistical.  Terrain, private property etc.  Even so, the barriers we have now don't stop anything.  Like i said, the guys we really want to keep out.  The cartels.  They aren't going to be stopped by a 15 ft wall or whatever.

[Lhalo]

7 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

yea thats a great analogy.

Thank you. 

[Lhalo]

Let me ask a question. If the wall won't work, then why are illegals and liberals so against it?

[Glen]

7 minutes ago, LHalo said:

Let me ask a question. If the wall won't work, then why are illegals and liberals so against it?

You answered your question right before you asked it.

[Lhalo]

2 minutes ago, Glen said:

You answered your question right before you asked it.

Illegals are against the wall because it won't work? That makes sense. 

[mtangelsfan]

20 minutes ago, LHalo said:

Let me ask a question. If the wall won't work, then why are illegals and liberals so against it?

Most people are against it.  It isn't a popular notion.  Also, as a conservative I hate the money that would have to be spent.  As a Libertarian I hate all of the eminent domain that would have to be hoisted on property owners.  Lastly, as a proud American I hate how it would make us look.  

[gotbeer]

8 hours ago, Tank said:

there are sections where we already have a wall. it would be worth knowing how effective it is (or isn't) at deterring illegal crossings.

The current wall has openings in them at certain points.  The rational behind it was it's easier for border patrol to monitor the openings than the entire border.  

[red321]

2 hours ago, LHalo said:

Let me ask a question. If the wall won't work, then why are illegals and liberals so against it?

because it's a colossal waste of money that is a symbolic gesture and panders to people's worst fears instead of having a realistic discussion immigration

[Lhalo]

Look everyone! Red cares about government spending!