Twins acquire Santiago

[Jobu]

Oh great. More people to tell us what message boards are like.

[tomsred]

I didn't tell you what they are like, I told you my perception of a factor involved in message boards.  It's okay to disagree with that perception, but don't you agree that message boards are "emotional magnets"  so to speak?  It seems to me that's part of their purpose, an emotional outlet.

[tdawg87]

23 minutes ago, tomsred said:

What's blind about it?  If there are sensible reasons for making a player change or a on field decision I try to understand that reasoning and learn from it.  Scioscia and Eppler have shown far more logical reasoning than I've seen presented by some posters on this board.  The recent Santiago trade is a great example.  How many people initially missed the concept that the trade was a calculated risk trade of Santiago for Meyer, not Nolasko - many just wanted to emotionally blow up because the perceived value of Santiago to them was much higher than reality, and we should have gotten something better and with less risk.

 

One thing I've noticed over the years on message boards is that people don't listen first, they react first, mostly emotionally. They are also highly effected by the trend of what others have to say about a subject, and if they band together in agreement that concept or subject matter must be true because others are believing it, often without unsubstantiated facts.  So actually I have the opposite reaction from yours, I believe that I'm not blindly following anything but trying to listen and understand sensible reasoning instead of swimming in a school of fish blindly following one another.  Or am I "blind" because I don't agree with your opinion.  I guess that makes you "blind" as well because you don't agree with mine.

If it's reactionary to form a negative opinion about something before knowing everything then it's just as reactionary to form a positive one. We can know the reasoning and logic behind something, but that doesn't mean we have to just accept it and be good with it.

[Lou]

48 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Hanson? 

lol

beat me to it

[tomsred]

3 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

If it's reactionary to form a negative opinion about something before knowing everything then it's just as reactionary to form a positive one. We can know the reasoning and logic behind something, but that doesn't mean we have to just accept it and be good with it.

I completely agree tdawg.  Obviously anyone here can have a take, it doesn't necessarily have to be tied to facts or logic.  We are really just letting everyone publicly know our opinion of Angels baseball.  Fun huh?  

[DCAngelsFan]

57 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Hanson? 

 

Walden for Tommy Hanson - one of those "high-risk, high-reward, he just needs a change of scenery" deals - in 2013, he started 13 games. and pitched 73 innings, with a 5.43 ERA before being non-tendered that off-season.  

Not that Walden turned into anything special, but point is, every tteam but us knew Hanson was physically "done" - - the 2nd half of 2012, his velocity disappeared, and he served up a .901 2nd half OPS, and his tenure here was predictably Blantonesque.  

[tdawg87]

4 minutes ago, tomsred said:

I completely agree tdawg.  Obviously anyone here can have a take, it doesn't necessarily have to be tied to facts or logic.  We are really just letting everyone publicly know our opinion of Angels baseball.  Fun huh?  

Yes. But whining is way more fun than being positive. Especially if it makes a player's brother incredibly angry and they go off the deep end.

[Lou]

4 hours ago, Torridd said:

I think this is worse than the Wells trade because you're taking a gamble on a guy with an injury history. Wells had a history and was healthy. I think more of us hate this trade especially since Santiago has been successful, an All-star to boot.

C'mon, Torrid.  He may have been placed on the all-star team once (as a replacement for injured Gray), but please don't try and sell him as a top-level pitcher. After being named an all-star, he went out in the 2nd half and put up an era of 5.47 and a whip of 1.493

 

[Lou]

7 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Yes. But whining is way more fun than being positive. Especially if it makes a player's brother incredibly angry and they go off the deep end.

Holy crap! I just looked up big bro's stats last night of the blue. 

Edited August 3, 2016 by Lou

[Docwaukee]

4 minutes ago, Lou said:

Holy crap! I just looked up big bro's stats last out of the blue. 

he's actually having a solid season at AAA.  He'd probably be in the bigs with the halos right now if they weren't a bunch of anti-semites.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 hours ago, Stradling said:

Then you think wrong.  Wells was expensive and bad.  Nolasco is just bad.  Meyers is a question mark.  

"I thought you said we didn't have any high priced talent on this ball club?"

"Well you can forget about Dorn, because he's just high priced."

[beatlesrule]

MLBTR chat:

4:12
What do you think of the Santiago/Nolasco Meyer deal?
Steve Adams
4:13
I don't get it for the Angels at all. I get that they need arms, but they seem to have made the trade for the purpose of betting on Alex Meyer, who hasn't pitched since May due to shoulder fatigue and now has had shoulder problems in three different seasons. They gave up the better MLB pitcher and flipped a reliever that doesn't come with Meyer's pedigree but has a reasonable chance of being a big league reliever... it's really strange to me from their standpoint.
4:14
Maybe they think they can fix Nolasco? But if that's the case, they could've just gotten him for cash and gotten something better out of Santiago.

[Torridd]

4 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

Eppler traded for the best pitching prospect available that Santiago could bring the Angels. We got a young cost controlled pitcher with huge upside. Fletcher said his upside is much higher than Tropeano's.

damn you Eppler!

 

5 hours ago, arch stanton said:

Who are these younger guys with better track records and which are the teams looking to trade them for Hector?

My point is that Eppler is betting it all instead of playing it safe. He could have gotten young players for Santiago, but not with the upside of Meyer. Most of us would have been happy with the safe playhere. Eppler chose the big play. We'll see how it goes.

[Docwaukee]

14 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

MLBTR chat:

4:12
What do you think of the Santiago/Nolasco Meyer deal?
Steve Adams
4:13
I don't get it for the Angels at all. I get that they need arms, but they seem to have made the trade for the purpose of betting on Alex Meyer, who hasn't pitched since May due to shoulder fatigue and now has had shoulder problems in three different seasons. They gave up the better MLB pitcher and flipped a reliever that doesn't come with Meyer's pedigree but has a reasonable chance of being a big league reliever... it's really strange to me from their standpoint.
4:14
Maybe they think they can fix Nolasco? But if that's the case, they could've just gotten him for cash and gotten something better out of Santiago.

that pretty much sums it up for me.  

[Torridd]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

C'mon, Torrid.  He may have been placed on the all-star team once (as a replacement for injured Gray), but please don't try and sell him as a top-level pitcher. After being named an all-star, he went out in the 2nd half and put up an era of 5.47 and a whip of 1.493

 

I just think Wells had more potential to be good. That's why I say this is a worse trade. I think Santiago is a lot better than Nolasco. I guess we'll see what happens with Meyer. It's done. It's not like Santiago was my favorite player, but when you make trades I always thought you were supposed to come out better. I don't think the Angels are a better team right now. We'll see if Meyer can change that.

[ELEVEN]

I just wish Hector could have put it together here.

I think the AS game maybe set him back in his development somehow.

Anyway, I really think he's a great kid and hope he does well. Could be the face of some franchise if he can. He certainly has the personality for it.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Brief scouting focused take on Meyer vs Busenitz from fangraphs

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/instagraphs/twins-and-angels-swap-throwers-meyer-and-busenitz/

Quote

Meyer will touch 98 mph and sits 94-96 while flashing a plus slider. He has always been wild and continues to be, even at age 26, and even the most generous of evaluators has given up hope that he can become a starter. The stuff will play in relief, and may even be worthy of high-leverage situations if Meyer can put things together, but the combination of his wildness and the shoulder fatigue that has held him out since April make him a extremely risky.

 

[tdawg87]

I like that Meyers may not even be a starter. I'm sure the Angels feel differently. At least I hope they do.

The trade still sucks.

[Troll Daddy]

Busenitz has been up to 99 this season with an average breaking ball. He was touching 94 at Kennesaw State and was pitching exclusively in relief until an eight-start experiment in 2015. He didn’t stick there, however, and returned to the bullpen where he sits 96-plus. He lacks extension and plane, so the heater plays down a bit, but it has some arm-side movement. Neither Busenitz’s curveball or changeup are likely to become bat-missing offerings and he’s only likely to become a middle-relief option because of it.

 

Despite that, the Angels have turned a 25th-round pick into a potential big leaguer and tradeable asset.

same fangraphs article

[beatlesrule]

12 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I like that Meyers may not even be a starter. I'm sure the Angels feel differently. At least I hope they do.

The trade still sucks.

That's very shocking to me too.  All you were able to get for Santiago (PLUS a 20 year old RP prospect for some reason) is a horrible, has been SP and an injured 26 year old that could be a good relief pitcher if starting doesn't work out?  Really?  In a sellers market?  Was Eppler aware of what other teams were getting?  I am getting madder and madder by the minute. 

[TroutField]

after seeing some different angles I've warmed up to this trade. We needed starting options for next year and we got 2 potential pieces to our starting rotation next year. Meyers has a ton of upside to pair with Skaggs (hopefully Richards) and Nolasco can be our #5. Top prospects weren't going to be thrown at the Angels for Santiago. He's an average starter, nobody was going to sell the farm for a guy who wasn't going to be a difference maker. 

 

It it really wasn't as bad as I initially thought 

[Ray McKigney]

7 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Busenitz has been up to 99 this season with an average breaking ball. He was touching 94 at Kennesaw State and was pitching exclusively in relief until an eight-start experiment in 2015. He didn’t stick there, however, and returned to the bullpen where he sits 96-plus. He lacks extension and plane, so the heater plays down a bit, but it has some arm-side movement. Neither Busenitz’s curveball or changeup are likely to become bat-missing offerings and he’s only likely to become a middle-relief option because of it.

 

Despite that, the Angels have turned a 25th-round pick into a potential big leaguer and tradeable asset.

same fangraphs article

Why didn't you use a big font?

[Troll Daddy]

9 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

That's very shocking to me too.  All you were able to get for Santiago (PLUS a 20 year old RP prospect for some reason) is a horrible, has been SP and an injured 26 year old that could be a good relief pitcher if starting doesn't work out?  Really?  In a sellers market?  Was Eppler aware of what other teams were getting?  I am getting madder and madder by the minute. 

Would you of been satisfied if the Angels traded for Ariel Miranda instead?

[Troll Daddy]

2 minutes ago, Ray McKigney said:

Why didn't you use a big font?

Great question, wish I knew the answer to that ... copy and paste 

[Docwaukee]

I don't understand the logic that it was a good trade because no one was going to sell the farm for Hector.  Of course they weren't.  It's not that black and white.  

Santiago's value is what it is.  It's Alex Meyer and Ricky Nolasco.  It's Ariel Miranda. But it's also some collection of prospects in the low to mid minors who are 2-3 years away of which we will never know.  

I was hoping we'd find out what the latter was because my feeling is that it's better than what is being assumed.  

The value attached to a 'major league ready' arm is the game changer.  I would have rather mitigate some risk in exchange for that.