Charleston church shooting: Multiple fatalities in South Carolina, source says

[Mark68]

And it could be argued that the American Revolution was an armed insurrection against what was most definitely not a duly elected government.

[Tank]

And it could be argued that the American Revolution was an armed insurrection against what was most definitely not a duly elected government.

 

no taxation without representation.

[Blarg]

the  american flag is the symbol of an armed insurrection.

 

I think Don't Tread on Me was.

[mtangelsfan]

I couldn't care less if states don't fly that flag anymore.  I do care if any remembrance of it does away.  Those young men died for something, even if its something we don't believe it was right.

[Spirit]

Ah, but the victors write the history.

 

The American flag is the symbol of the independent country in which we now live.

 

 

To many Native Americans, it's a symbol of something else. 

Edited June 28, 2015 by Geoff

[Hollyw00d]

Casinos?

[Kevin]

I have been to many civil war battlefields and seen confederate monuments with little miniature confederate flags planted next to them. Do you oppose that? Do you oppose the monuments dedicated to those men? I'm talking specifically about civil war battlefields? They are in a sense museums unto themselves.

Again I agree they shouldn't be flying over a government building. I believe though there should be a time and place for it. Some are appropriate. Some are not.

[TobiasFunke]

Battlefields I feel they should absolutely be flying over, memorials celebrating the war as a whole? Yes.

Memorials celebrating CSA politicians or memorials celebrating Confederate officers? Absolutely not.

Edited June 29, 2015 by TobiasFunke

[Don]

There's also the whole issue of South Carolina never using that flag during the Civil War. The flag we typically refer to as the Confederate flag is something pretty similar to the flag used in battle by the Army of Northern Virginia (theirs were square though).

[Mark68]

Battlefields are, in essence, large outdoor museums. Ergo, if we are talking about a Civil War battlefield, I'm fine with that context.

 

But the South Carolina statehouse or grounds? No.

[Mark68]

And Mississippi must absolutely change their state flag.

[Kevin]

Battlefields are, in essence, large outdoor museums. Ergo, if we are talking about a Civil War battlefield, I'm fine with that context.

But the South Carolina statehouse or grounds? No.

We agree then. I know Red disagreed when I first posted that and when you first mentioned federal property, I wasn't sure if also meant federally owned national parks.

[Tank]

There's also the whole issue of South Carolina never using that flag during the Civil War. The flag we typically refer to as the Confederate flag is something pretty similar to the flag used in battle by the Army of Northern Virginia (theirs were square though).

 

i have a book at school filled with all kinds of civil war flags. what people consider the confederate flag today was actually a confederate naval flag according to my book.

 

the confederate flag was actually called the stars and bars. it looked like this, for those who don't know:

 

Edited June 29, 2015 by Tank

[Hollyw00d]

All of the stars are white.

Racism confirmed.

[Don]

I did some more digging on the flag history thing, and here's what I found: Confederate flags are super confusing really, because there were a ton of them. I was slightly wrong in my earlier post... While the Army of Northern Virginia did use a square version of what South Carolina is currently flying above its capitol, Tank is right in that the rectangular version was a naval flag (one of a few different naval flags as well). That same naval flag was also used by the Army of Tennessee, because apparently the CSA was a freaking tech start up where nobody could decide on a uniform logo. Keeping that theme alive, the one Tank posted above was the first Confederate flag, but apparently it changed a couple more times during the war. You could argue that the square version of the thing flying above the capitol in Charlseton was the CSA flag for a few weeks in 1865, but only because the Army of Northern Virginia was the only remnant of the CSA at that point.

[Tank]

good job on your research, don.

 

it seems the "confederate flag" was a very fluid situation. when people talk about the confederate flag that is flying in south carolina's capitol and cite it as a symbol of their heritage, they're not really being very accurate historically.

[arch stanton]

Relevant to nothing, I think the flag in question is one of the coolest looking flags around and I can see why they would choose it as their symbol. I also think most of them prefer to think of it as a symbol of being a rebel and not a racist.

That said, there has to be a more current and appropriate symbol of southern heritage.

[TobiasFunke]

good job on your research, don.

it seems the "confederate flag" was a very fluid situation. when people talk about the confederate flag that is flying in south carolina's capitol and cite it as a symbol of their heritage, they're not really being very accurate historically.

Tell that to my cousin's hillbilly husband who keeps citing how much he knows his history on Facebook.

[arch stanton]

Tell that to my cousin's hillbilly husband who keeps citing how much he knows his history on Facebook.

We should make sure we're on the same page with our rural slur lexicon.

 

Hillbillies are of course those from the hills of the Ozarks and southern Appalachians. Coal miners and moonshiners. NASCAR originators

 

Rednecks worked the cotton fields thus had the sunburned neck to go with it. Heart of Dixie and the like

 

Hick is the catchall for unsophisticated and less educated country folks. Bumpkin can be substituted for the sake of variety.

 

Then there's Texas and Florida who are worlds unto themselves

[TobiasFunke]

I should have made it more clear then...

 

 

 

...He's from Florida

[Jason]

My white guilt isn't quite there yet so I'll still admit that the Dukes of Hazzard was my favorite show growing up. 

[mtangelsfan]

We should make sure we're on the same page with our rural slur lexicon.

 

Hillbillies are of course those from the hills of the Ozarks and southern Appalachians. Coal miners and moonshiners. NASCAR originators

 

Rednecks worked the cotton fields thus had the sunburned neck to go with it. Heart of Dixie and the like

 

Hick is the catchall for unsophisticated and less educated country folks. Bumpkin can be substituted for the sake of variety.

 

Then there's Texas and Florida who are worlds unto themselves

 

Now all of these slurs are acceptable, of course, because it really isn't mocking or insulting a certain group of people...........................

 

right?

[Jason]

I do like moonshine too. Seriously

[arch stanton]

I should have made it more clear then...

 

 

 

...He's from Florida

That's a pejorative unto itself. No embellishment necessary.

[arch stanton]

Now all of these slurs are acceptable, of course, because it really isn't mocking or insulting a certain group of people...........................

 

right?

I'm not sure slurs are ever really acceptable. I just want to make sure our mocking is accurate.