Charleston church shooting: Multiple fatalities in South Carolina, source says

[Kevin]

Why would you fly a flag of treason and hatred in national park battlefields? They don't fly the Japanese or Nazi flags in WWII memorials do they?

Agree to disagree. Still think they belong there in my opinion.

[juansavage1]

I think all historical sites should remain as is. I can see both sides of the flag debate.

[Kevin]

The people who were leading them were for sure. But if you have somehow convinced yourself that every man that fought that war on the side of the south had the exact same reasoning I think that is false. That would be like thinking that every 18 year old german who fought in WWII were goose stepping Nazis.[/quote

It's easy for a 21st century individual to judge a 19th century people on their view of the world. There is a good chance we all would have been racists back then.

We can look back on them and learn from their mistakes and continue to progress as a people.

[nate]

So Southern CA, Texas, AZ, NM should fly a Mexico flag too right?  I mean we defeated them and took over the land but we don't fly that flag.

[mtangelsfan]

So Southern CA, Texas, AZ, NM should fly a Mexico flag too right?  I mean we defeated them and took over the land but we don't fly that flag.

 

First, are you really going to compare the historical impact to the U.S. of the Civil war vs. the Spanish-American or Mexican-American wars?

 

Also, there are plenty of Mexican flags all over California and Arizona.

 

Lastly, who is arguing that the states themselves shouldn't remove the confederate flag?

[mtangelsfan]

In the vein of this argument I propose we remove all graves of confederate fighters from civil war battle grounds.

 

Knowing that these evil, evil, 19 and 20 year olds fought for the Confederacy could upset children who may visit the grounds.

[Crampknees]

You can take down the Confederate flag if you want but there will still be racists and racism.  I think this is more about stripping the South of its identity, sort of a social cleansing of the U.S.

 

Kind of a cool flag though I always liked the design of it.

 

By the way, Jefferson owned slaves so we should probably go ahead and blow this up:

 

No need to, when Trump becomes Pres he will just put his hair on top of it. 

[Tank]

confederate merchandise sales are soaring as major retailers announce they will no longer sell items with the flag on it.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-23/confederate-flag-sales-soar-despite-populist-removal-merchandise

 

you have to wade through some of his own opinion at the end.

[Thomas]

So Southern CA, Texas, AZ, NM should fly a Mexico flag too right?  I mean we defeated them and took over the land but we don't fly that flag.

 

Technically Spanish, French, Mexican, Texas (hell no), Confederate and US

[juansavage1]

I admire your condemnation of slavery. Somebody had to say it.

Disagree mt. Although I will say I don't feel very strongly about this flag topic one way or the other. But if I had to choose a side...

The Confederates were the POS racist little dicks who fought a war to keep the ability to enslave and force labor from individuals (of a particular race, as white slaves would, as we all know, be supremely unsavory and unbecoming of a developed nation) for their entire lives based solely on the reasoning that life would be harder for them if they didn't. And then they lost that war. Pardon me if I don't show outrage when we decide to not celebrate that segment of "our" history.

[arch stanton]

My mom is from Mississippi and I have spent time in the south and have plenty of relatives there still. I can't understand why the heritage they want to hold onto is that of a war their great, great, great grandfathers lost. If that's the best they can do then they should be greatly disappointed in the 5 generations that followed.

[gotbeer]

My mom is from Mississippi and I have spent time in the south and have plenty of relatives there still. I can't understand why the heritage they want to hold onto is that of a war their great, great, great grandfathers lost. If that's the best they can do then they should be greatly disappointed in the 5 generations that followed.

 

While not great great great great grandfathers, some things are generational.  Think Tibetans 50's.  Armenians 1915.  I'm sure there are people out there that harbor grudges that happened centuries ago.  

 

And how many Texans want out of the Union right now?  Heck, with where the country is headed, an independent CA doesn't sound that bad.

[arch stanton]

The greatest advice I've ever come across is to be careful what you wish for because you just might get it.

[Kevin]

The war did destroy their economy and way of life for long time. The root of their bitterness starts there and was passed down from generation to generation.

[nate]

First, are you really going to compare the historical impact to the U.S. of the Civil war vs. the Spanish-American or Mexican-American wars?

Also, there are plenty of Mexican flags all over California and Arizona.

Lastly, who is arguing that the states themselves shouldn't remove the confederate flag?

On residences yes. On government buildings, no.

The civil war is important to our history only in the fact that good prevailed. Why fly a flag that represents the bad?

Historically both wats are very significant. Imagine the U.S. Without Texas and CA. Just the same as imagining the U.S. with slavery.

[Hollyw00d]

Uhhhh ya not quite the same

[Jay]

The root of their bitterness starts there and was passed down from generation to generation.

 

Kind of like how Angels fans hate the Dodgers?

[InsideThePark]

Kind of like how Angels fans hate the Dodgers fans?

Fixed.

[mtangelsfan]

On residences yes. On government buildings, no.

The civil war is important to our history only in the fact that good prevailed. Why fly a flag that represents the bad?

Historically both wats are very significant. Imagine the U.S. Without Texas and CA. Just the same as imagining the U.S. with slavery.

 

Don't know what to say if you don't see how the civil war was the most significant and it isn't even close.  Nothing in human history is ever black and white.

[red321]

I believe for Japan, they have just the one flag.  Have since before WWII.  The flag you may think of is the military flag.  Which I believe they still use today by the navy.  

 

Interestingly.  I don't know if you all know this.  But the swaztica (sp) is still used worldwide.  It has been a symbol for Buddhist temples since well before the nazi's (like B.C. before) and is still used today.  

 

Yes, and I have photos of it from temples in India and Thailand.

 

My point remains the same...we aren't putting those Nazi Flag and Japanese Flags in our wwII memorials...why would we build memorials to honor the South's treason.

[mtangelsfan]

Because thousands upon thousands of young men (still americans) died due to it.  Most of them just believing they were fighting to protect their way of life. 

 

It baffles me that on this one seeming subject, many people lose nuance and can only see it 100% evil but can see nuance in even why terrorists do what they do.

[Jay]

I really don't see what the South did as treason.

 

Nevertheless the whole flag thing is nonsense.  Won't change a thing.

[HaloMagic]

I really don't see what the South did as treason.

LOL

[Thomas]

And Apple somehow manages to go too far...
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/06/25/apple-removing-games-featuring-confederate-flag-regardless-of-context.aspx?utm_content=buffer5f987&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[juansavage1]

Old grievances die hard. Lots of blacks are still upset aboit slavery. Lots of NA about land, Mexicans about land, women because they couldn't vote, etc.