Uh oh...Iraq

[Mudville]

I voted for GWB in 2000... and 2004. Voted Obama in 2008.

I lament all of those votes. At least there is no shame in my Johnson vote in 2012.

You voted using your dick?

[AngelsLongBall]

Not really, but ok

Ok. I'd say that we know where ISIS is right now. They're threatening your innocent civilians, so...

[mtangelsfan]

If stopping a rape half way around the world would mean I would have to send my son to slaughter 2 young children and a mother of 5 and then having those children's family members kill my son and coming over to kill me and all of my relatives then yes, I probably would refrain.

 

You wouldn't? You are a much better man than I.

 

Bad things and evil people are everywhere in the world, it is not the USA's responsibility nor in its power to stop.

 

slaughter two young children?  What are you talking about?  I'm talking about protecting those people on the mountain.  Not trying to destroy all of IS.  That would be great but it isn't happening.   

[InsideThePark]

Most of the people on that mountain are Yazidis. ISIS thinks that they're devil worshipers so they mutilate them first before killing them. I think those tens of thousands of people deserve a better fate because of a mess that we created. We know who the enemy is, unlike 9/11, where Vladdy thinks it's still a mystery.

[UndertheHalo]

u know we still have troops in Germany and Japan. Obviously the specifics are quite different but its looking more and more like the right move would have been a draw down of forces as opposed to complete withdrawl.  Of course, we had no deal to stay, but the truth is that the Obama administration sure didn't try that hard to get one done.  Nice story above about the Peshmerga and the Iraqi air force acting to save the Yazidi.  Nice to hear something not horrible coming out of Iraq.  Maybe theres hope yet for the Iraqi armed forces....the air force anyway.

[TobiasFunke]

Ok. I'd say that we know where ISIS is right now. They're threatening your innocent civilians, so...

If ISIS was 4 guys in a bar outside Allepo is say get er done. But they aren't. We might know where a bunch are but not all. You get the innocent civilians out and peace the **** out also. The end.

[nate]

I think targeting terrorist groups and ideologies is almost impossible... an exercise in futility.

 

We have gone through this shit enough in the last decade.  Save the people and GTFO.  We don't fight the ruthless gangs across Africa and South America.  No reason to do the ones in the middle east.  It is just a way to sink money and alienate those on the fringe of being our allies.

[UndertheHalo]

I agree that we should not become fully engaged again in Iraq. Given our history with the place in the last decade, I think we are somewhat obliged to not completely abandon them.  Air strikes are appropriate imo.  it is critically important that Al Maliki goes however.

[Caralho]

u know we still have troops in Germany and Japan. Obviously the specifics are quite different but its looking more and more like the right move would have been a draw down of forces as opposed to complete withdrawl.  Of course, we had no deal to stay, but the truth is that the Obama administration sure didn't try that hard to get one done.  Nice story above about the Peshmerga and the Iraqi air force acting to save the Yazidi.  Nice to hear something not horrible coming out of Iraq.  Maybe theres hope yet for the Iraqi armed forces....the air force anyway.

 

Obama did try somewhat but Maliki was a pretty firm no on that. I am pretty skeptical that keeping a small force in Iraq would have been able to prevent something like this. The political crisis has to be solved for any chance at defeating those IS assholes. The Sunnis have to also accept that they aren't the majority in the country. At least the Kurds seem like a good partner at least compared to the entire region. Secular, they tolerate religious minorities, don't hate Israel. It also shows how dire the situation is when Iraq and Turkey are both like, sure give the Kurds a whole bunch of guns. I just really don't want the US to be militarily involved in that region any more, get those Yazidis and Christians out of Iraq, help the Kurds hold the line against IS and that's it.  

[UndertheHalo]

Obama did try somewhat but Maliki was a pretty firm no on that. I am pretty skeptical that keeping a small force in Iraq would have been able to prevent something like this. The political crisis has to be solved for any chance at defeating those IS assholes. The Sunnis have to also accept that they aren't the majority in the country. At least the Kurds seem like a good partner at least compared to the entire region. Secular, they tolerate religious minorities, don't hate Israel. It also shows how dire the situation is when Iraq and Turkey are both like, sure give the Kurds a whole bunch of guns. I just really don't want the US to be militarily involved in that region any more, get those Yazidis and Christians out of Iraq, help the Kurds hold the line against IS and that's it.  

 This (the bold part) is definitely true. You probably are right that ISIS would have come regardless of a presence of our forces or not.  However, even a small contingent of US forces being available to counter the initial push from ISIS may have made a huge difference vs. where we are today, in terms of ISIS rampaging through the country.  It got to this point significantly because of the utter incompetence of Iraqi security forces.

Edited August 12, 2014 by UndertheHalo

[Caralho]

And with American troops in the country, we could have bribed the Sunnis to fight IS. Maybe you're right. I'm just tired of American troops being in danger. It's just that IS looks every bit as nasty as advertised. 

[arch stanton]

Where it is going to end? Once that crisis is over you can be sure as hell that another one will conveniently surface 30 seconds later.

 

And this is much, much bigger than what you are talking about. Several people in congress are saying that ISIS will attack the US if we don't invade and re-occupy Iraq. 

Because this is the kind of talk required to recruit a new batch.

[AngelsLongBall]

If ISIS was 4 guys in a bar outside Allepo is say get er done. But they aren't. We might know where a bunch are but not all. You get the innocent civilians out and peace the **** out also. The end.

Soooooo...does this mean I can count on your vote when we form the AW Model UN?

[TobiasFunke]

Depends on what country I am

[Tank]

reports coming out that the isolated group on the mountain has been reduced significantly and reached safety. good news.

[Spencer]

I call dibs on The Moon

[Adam]

http://www.timesofisrael.com/is-says-it-has-beheaded-american-journalist/

[InsideThePark]

They're pissed because we helped the Kurds retake the Mosul Dam. I'm surprised that they didn't blow it up and flood Baghdad.

[AngelsLongBall]

They blow up the dam, they flood a large portion of the territory they hold, not to mention they lose the benefits of hydroelectricity. I don't think they'd cut their nose to spite their face, and that type if forward thinking worries me about them. I dont think there is an easy solution/template to deal with them

[AngelsLongBall]

*of

[Tank]

http://www.timesofisrael.com/is-says-it-has-beheaded-american-journalist/

 

the religion of peace.

[UndertheHalo]

the religion of peace.

:-/ this is somewhat akin to saying the Westboro baptists are representative of Christianity. 

[Lou]

:-/ this is somewhat akin to saying the Westboro baptists are representative of Christianity.

It is as soon as the WBC has more than 100 members, overruns the central region of the US and begins a campaign of mass murder.

Or at least until you can find continuous examples of like incidents that are being performed by other Christian organizations

Edited August 20, 2014 by Lou

[UndertheHalo]

It is as soon as the WBC has more than 100 members, overruns the central region of the US and begins a campaign of mass murder.

Or at least until you can find continuous examples of like incidents that are being performed by other Christian organizations

as soon as i posted the previous comment I knew someone would say something to this effect.  Don't underestimate humanity's ability to be awful. Even Christians ( i am a christian).  We are fortunate to have stability here, in the middle east....particularly in war zones there is an absolute void of order and authority. ISIS has risen out of this void.  People have always warped religion for their own twisted agenda's.  Right now, the middle east and Islam are particularly vulnerable, a result of a centuries worth of western interference.  The problems there (sectarian in nature) just have to play out, it will take time and much of it has and will continue to be ugly.  I dont think ISIS represents what Islam is about.

[mtangelsfan]

as soon as i posted the previous comment I knew someone would say something to this effect.  Don't underestimate humanity's ability to be awful. Even Christians ( i am a christian).  We are fortunate to have stability here, in the middle east....particularly in war zones there is an absolute void of order and authority. ISIS has risen out of this void.  People have always warped religion for their own twisted agenda's.  Right now, the middle east and Islam are particularly vulnerable, a result of a centuries worth of western interference.  The problems there (sectarian in nature) just have to play out, it will take time and much of it has and will continue to be ugly.  I dont think ISIS represents what Islam is about.

 

This, to me, is just a cop out.  When did it become so normal to not take any responsibility for your own actions?