Trading Ohtani even if they are in it?

[Jeff Fletcher]

I don’t usually start threads but I keep seeing this idea and want to ask about it. 
 

I certainly understand the thinking of trading Ohtani if the Angels are out of it, but it seems like there are some fans who want to trade him even if the Angels are in it? (And I don’t mean “fringy in it” like 5 games out, but legit like right now.)

If you’re not going to go for it when you have a chance, then what’s the point?

(I also can’t imagine what it would do to the clubhouse to trade Ohtani when they are in the race. Imagine what happened to the Brewers when they traded Hader and multiply it by 10.)

[ScottT]

Good beer is good.

Good people are crazy.

Of course it's never gonna happen.  And.... its an easy thing to say when you aren't the..  owner ... or gm.  

These people are nuts.

[halonatic13]

At this point, if we win it all WITH Ohtani, I'll be ok if he leaves to another team. We got our championship.

[HaloBronco]

Thanks Jeff, great point. 

Agree if there is a shot of winning, there is no way you trade him. 

That would be sending the wrong message to the team that would hang over this organization for years to come. 

Right now this team has a good shot. fingers crossed we'll look back after the season and say it was a great ride.  

[REDneck]

16 minutes ago, ScottT said:

Good beer is good.

Good people are crazy.

Of course it's never gonna happen.  And.... its an easy thing to say when you aren't the..  owner ... or gm.  

These people are nuts.

I have to do a REDneck correction here.

"God is great"

"Beer is good"

..." And people are crazy"

Billy Currington!

[m0nkey]

Dumb, if you're legitimately in it, then you compete to win that year.  It's why I was a big fan of the Greinke trade back in 2012/13/whenever it was.  

[RallyMo]

If this team keeps winning and has a legit shot, you don’t trade him unless you want this team to fall apart. He’s the guy we’d want to trade for if we felt it would get us over the hump. The thing is, he’s already here. If we had our current bullpen earlier in the year, this wouldn’t even be a discussion and we’d all be losing our shit over the team’s insane record. Everybody would be dead set on winning it all.

[Dtwncbad]

If the Angels traded Ohtani while they are in a pennant race, I really believe the team would permanently lose a slice of its fan base forever.

I personally will likely always be a fan, but a move like that would absolutely change the way I feel about the team and would have a large effect on my confidence in the team’s interest in actually winning. . . which would make it awfully hard to be all that interested going forward.

[Taylor]

I think the Angels should not trade Ohtani and then re-sign him in the off season.

[Angelsfan1984]

I understand the idea of trading him if he has given any type of confirmation he wont be resigning. The goal in that senario is to get players you think can win you a championship (as that should be every teams goal....except the A's). Ohtani is that player, but its not the Anaheim Ohtani's and the health of the franchise supercedes any 1 player. It will be a very tough call that the front office has to make. On a side note, i think they've shown enough to keep him around and he appears to enjoy being in anaheim.

I wouldnt trade him unless of course 2 things are true. 1. He has indicated he's not resigning under any circumstance. AND 2. they are 10+ games out of a wildcard at the trade deadline. So if you think you have an opportunity to win it all with him, then you have to go for it. 

 

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, Taylor said:

I think the Angels should not trade Ohtani and then re-sign him in the off season.

This is the cutting edge type of opinions we need to share here more often.  

[Taylor]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

This is the cutting edge type of opinions we need to share here more often.  

Sometimes I like to really go out on a limb and give a radical take.

[Jason]

9 hours ago, halonatic13 said:

At this point, if we win it all WITH Ohtani, I'll be ok if he leaves to another team. We got our championship.

If the Halos win or get very close to the championship then I’m assuming Ohtani will have been a major factor in getting them there. They would have to prioritize resigning him at that point. No way they could just let him walk then 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Jason

[T.G.]

16 minutes ago, Taylor said:

I think the Angels should not trade Ohtani and then re-sign him in the off season.

I think the Angels should not trade him and sign him before the season ends.

[Swordsman78]

Trading Ohtani even if the Angels are in contention would almost be as dumb as when Stradling stated the halos would have 2-3 more wins if Bochy was the manager.

[floplag]

Well, im one of them, and possibly the reasons for this post so... ill chime in.

This is why that decision should have been made before opening day.  Right now its lose lose.  You either risk him walking for nothing, or you irritate a lot of people.   Right now, were in it, reasonably, were still on the outside looking in but were close, 10 days ago we were not, where will we be in the next 10?  I dont have a crystal ball.  But ask yourself how youre going to feel or what shape the club is going to be in if we come up short, and he walks for nothing.  

The key thing is that it isnt all about Ohtani.  Of course the goal is to win, it comes down to do you think thats realistic.  Are we more than a WC team.   I certainly think we could be, but right now thats debatable.   Even after a hot streak we are still 5.5 out of the division and one back of the wild card.  Certainly "in it", but still not there. 

But regarding Ohtani Is anything we do going to be enough for him to stay?  I dont think so, almost nobody does think there is even a remote chance he extends.  Then we get into a bidding War with the Dodgers or Mets that we simply cannot win. 

And then there is the matter of what he will cost.  Given that Arte isnt leaving, and there is virtually no chance he will ever break the tax, do we really wnt to be holding a 500M contract.  We will have even less flexibility to make moves or improve than we do now. 

Lets say we do, what about 5 years from now when both he and Trout need DH time?  

There is no trade you get value, we all know that, and the rumor mills are often nonsense but some of them ive read could be very interesting.   Youre not getting a superstar back, but thats not really the point is it.  What you could get is a couple of young potential stars, recent call ups that could have impact, maybe a couple kids to beef up a horrific farm.  One rumor i heard for example was that the mets would start with Alvarez and Baty.   Now i dont know how true that is but if its anything close to that it doesnt suck.

If you could guarantee me a title with him even if he walks, fine im in... even guarantee me a WS berth... same, but you cant.  Hes had every opportunity to extend, yet he hasnt.  He isnt the type to come out and say it but that fact speaks volumes.  Whether its him wanting to play elsewhere or ownership not wanting to give him what he might get doesnt really matter, the result is the same. 

We need to get out heads around the probability of life after Ohtani... we can either profit from it, or make perhaps the biggest mistake in franchise history.

I know im going to get railed for this, and thats fine, its how it works here if you dont follow a certain logic, but youre betting the future, for the now.. are you really that convinced?  Im not. 

[Swordsman78]

Just now, floplag said:

Well, im one of them, and possibly the reasons for this post so... ill chime in.

This is why that decision should have been made before opening day.  Right now its lose lose.  You either risk him walking for nothing, or you irritate a lot of people.   Right now, were in it, reasonably, were still on the outside looking in but were close, 10 days ago we were not, where will we be in the next 10?  I dont have a crystal ball.  But ask yourself how youre going to feel or what shape the club is going to be in if we come up short, and he walks for nothing.  

The key thing is that it isnt all about Ohtani.  Of course the goal is to win, it comes down to do you think thats realistic.  Are we more than a WC team.   I certainly think we could be, but right now thats debatable.   Even after a hot streak we are still 5.5 out of the division and one back of the wild card.  Certainly "in it", but still not there. 

But regarding Ohtani Is anything we do going to be enough for him to stay?  I dont think so, almost nobody does think there is even a remote chance he extends.  Then we get into a bidding War with the Dodgers or Mets that we simply cannot win. 

And then there is the matter of what he will cost.  Given that Arte isnt leaving, and there is virtually no chance he will ever break the tax, do we really wnt to be holding a 500M contract.  We will have even less flexibility to make moves or improve than we do now. 

Lets say we do, what about 5 years from now when both he and Trout need DH time?  

There is no trade you get value, we all know that, and the rumor mills are often nonsense but some of them ive read could be very interesting.   Youre not getting a superstar back, but thats not really the point is it.  What you could get is a couple of young potential stars, recent call ups that could have impact, maybe a couple kids to beef up a horrific farm.  One rumor i heard for example was that the mets would start with Alvarez and Baty.   Now i dont know how true that is but if its anything close to that it doesnt suck.

If you could guarantee me a title with him even if he walks, fine im in... even guarantee me a WS berth... same, but you cant.  Hes had every opportunity to extend, yet he hasnt.  He isnt the type to come out and say it but that fact speaks volumes.  Whether its him wanting to play elsewhere or ownership not wanting to give him what he might get doesnt really matter, the result is the same. 

We need to get out heads around the probability of life after Ohtani... we can either profit from it, or make perhaps the biggest mistake in franchise history.

I know im going to get railed for this, and thats fine, its how it works here if you dont follow a certain logic, but youre betting the future, for the now.. are you really that convinced?  Im not. 

The decision WAS made before the season.  They intend to keep Ohtani and feel they can sign him

[Dtwncbad]

I would rather trade Trout than Ohtani.  There, I said it.

[gurn67]

I'm on the same boat. I trade him no matter what. This team is not going to win the World Series. They've had a good week, and Ohtani has been on fire. Go back and check the posts from 9 days ago. Everyone would have said to trade him. He's probably the most valuable deadline trade chip in the history of baseball of guys who were about to enter free agency. 

[TroutField]

1 minute ago, gurn67 said:

I'm on the same boat. I trade him no matter what. This team is not going to win the World Series. They've had a good week, and Ohtani has been on fire. Go back and check the posts from 9 days ago. Everyone would have said to trade him. He's probably the most valuable deadline trade chip in the history of baseball of guys who were about to enter free agency. 

Phillies didn’t look great last year and then caught fire and went all the way to the World Series. The angels have the best player in the world and the best player of our generation, they have been some clutch hits and the starting pitching turning a corner away from being really good. 
 

it happens in baseball all the time. 

[Revad]

I’d like to win this year with Ohtani, I wouldn’t trade him if we’re in contention.

[Swordsman78]

3 minutes ago, gurn67 said:

 . He's probably the most valuable deadline trade chip in the history of baseball of guys who were about to enter free agency. 

That's not saying much.  Highly doubt any team is going to give adequate compensation for Ohtani

[Second Base]

I was in favor of trading him last winter, because I thought it was what's best for the team. People that are still in favor, I think just want to see a trade for the entertainment value of it. 

Obviously a lot can happen between now and the deadline, but from where the Angels are sitting on June 13, no way they trade him. 

[floplag]

29 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I was in favor of trading him last winter, because I thought it was what's best for the team. People that are still in favor, I think just want to see a trade for the entertainment value of it. 

Obviously a lot can happen between now and the deadline, but from where the Angels are sitting on June 13, no way they trade him. 

This is absolutely not true.
I have been saying we should, or at least been open to it, not because i want to, but because its what makes sense for the club. 
Id love to keep him, but im not sure i want to pay anyone 50M+ under Moreno, it creates more issues than it solves budget wise.
Letting him walk for nothing doesnt help anything, getting a couple young potential studs, certainly does. 
Long term we may need those at bats.
These are baseball reasons, not fandom reasons, not drama reasons... debate them if you wish but dont make assumptions like that. 
No fan of this team WANTS to trade him, but the realiity of him not being here next year one way or another is upon us. 
We can either profit from it, or look like idiots.  Were going to get blasted either way. 

 

[AngelsFanSince86]

I'm torn. I want them to re-sign him and trading Ohtani away would obviously have an impact on their ability to do so.

That being said, it's very likely he goes elsewhere. The Angels are currently in it, but to me it comes down to how they perform against good teams from now until the all star break. At some point they have to show they can win series against good teams. Otherwise, they are just a slightly better version of the team we've seen for the last 8 years. I said it in another thread, but they have a tough schedule coming up. So being in it now doesn't mean anything if they can't beat good teams. Especially when those teams that they are just barely behind in standings are the ones they'll have to face.

I hate the thought of trading Ohtani, but I hate the thought of the Angels missing the playoffs and losing Ohtani to free agency anyways even more.

I can't give a true opinion right now because I think the next few weeks need to play out. If I had to state one now it would be this: to be buyers at the deadline, Angels need to have played at least .500 against good teams and have an actual wildcard spot by July 9.