Official 2022-23 Offseason Hot Stove Thread

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, Trendon said:

So, in this hypothetical, you’d rather spend money on Andrus and not spend on the bullpen?

That is your hypothetical not mine. 

[Docwaukee]

Correa has been so injury prone and is likely to get the biggest contract of the four.  I just have a weird feeling his deal is gonna end up a bust.  

[Stradling]

9 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

Signing Elvis Andrus, regardless of the cost, would be another colossal waste of resources.  He can only regress.

Not at all. 

[greginpsca]

23 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Not true. Contact can lose a game if it results in a double play instead of a strikeout.

There are always different outcomes. But a strikeout negates the positive outcome than the ground out that could win a game. 

[greginpsca]

16 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

Correa has been so injury prone and is likely to get the biggest contract of the four.  I just have a weird feeling his deal is gonna end up a bust.  

I think Turner is the best bet to be good long term. Even then, it might not be worth the money.

[AngelStew43]

15 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Not at all. 

Want to pull up his numbers 366 days from now?

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

Want to pull up his numbers 366 days from now?

Go for it. Then pull up Fletchers numbers.  We need depth.  

[Chuck]

40 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

Signing Elvis Andrus, regardless of the cost, would be another colossal waste of resources.  He can only regress.

I disagree only because I value Andrus higher than Fletcher as a starting SS.

I'll say what nobody else will. 

David Fletcher is a depth backup piece, a true utility infielder. He shouldn't be starting the majority of games for the Angels.

[Dtwncbad]

3 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I disagree only because I value Andrus higher than Fletcher as a starting SS. I'll say what nobody else will. 

David Fletcher is a depth backup piece, a true utility infielder. He shouldn't be starting the majority of games for the Angels.

I said this too and got torched because he is such a fan favorite mascot type.

Fletcher is a real asset as depth and a liability as a starter.  He needs to be used correctly.

Let’s manage Cinderella and keep an eye on midnight.

[Stradling]

15 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I disagree only because I value Andrus higher than Fletcher as a starting SS.

I'll say what nobody else will. 

David Fletcher is a depth backup piece, a true utility infielder. He shouldn't be starting the majority of games for the Angels.

I’ve been saying that for a minute.  He is a glove first utility guy.  Now if he goes back to working counts and taking walks like he did in 19 and 20, then he has value.  

[Dtwncbad]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I’ve been saying that for a minute.  He is a glove first utility guy.  Now if he goes back to working counts and taking walks like he did in 19 and 20, then he has value.  

I am not sure why some fans are so enamored with Fletcher specifically as a starter.  If your team has a utility player that is arguably good enough to play more than a regular utility player, isn’t that a great situation??

It’s like some fans are more interested in the David Fletcher story turning out perfect than they are interested in having the best possible roster.

[Pancake Bear]

8 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I am not sure why some fans are so enamored with Fletcher specifically as a starter.  If your team has a utility player that is arguably good enough to play more than a regular utility player, isn’t that a great situation??

It’s like some fans are more interested in the David Fletcher story turning out perfect than they are interested in having the best possible roster.

I assume it's trying to recapture the David Eckstein moment. Trouble is, Eckstein was only above league average as a hitter twice. His defense made it work, but Fletcher isn't Eckstein at shortstop. 

[angelsnationtalk]

43 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I disagree only because I value Andrus higher than Fletcher as a starting SS.

I'll say what nobody else will. 

David Fletcher is a depth backup piece, a true utility infielder. He shouldn't be starting the majority of games for the Angels.

I'll throw a curve into this. 

To me, Fletcher is a backup piece.... unless...

Angels have an elite SS (FA or trade), then Fletcher becomes a solid option at 2B hitting in the 9 spot. 

[Angels 1961]

47 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I disagree only because I value Andrus higher than Fletcher as a starting SS.

I'll say what nobody else will. 

David Fletcher is a depth backup piece, a true utility infielder. He shouldn't be starting the majority of games for the Angels.

I agree and Andrus would give Neto 1 more year to develop. I would like another starter and BP piece or 2.

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, angelsnationtalk said:

I'll throw a curve into this. 

To me, Fletcher is a backup piece.... unless...

Angels have an elite SS (FA or trade), then Fletcher becomes a solid option at 2B hitting in the 9 spot. 

Yeah but that’s kind of true for about any utility player.  If the rest of your team is stacked, sure you can survive with an Ok player batting 9th.

I am not accusing YOU specifically of this but it seems like some fans just love this guy so much they want to just keep imaging how they can possibly have him in the starting lineup with contrived situations.

And by the way, I am not going to be shocked if Fletcher plays well enough next year to have a role beyond a utility player.  If that happens it happens.  But it’s just not a good plan to expect it.

The best plan is to put guys into roles where they are not long shots to deliver on, and for Fletcher that role Is super utility.

[Angel Oracle]

While Andrus has averaged 2.5 oWAR the past 3 seasons, he’s only averaged 0.1 dWAR.

Need defense, already added two bats to the lineup.

$10+ million in 2023 seems much for that.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[DMVol]

51 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I am not sure why some fans are so enamored with Fletcher specifically as a starter.  If your team has a utility player that is arguably good enough to play more than a regular utility player, isn’t that a great situation??

It’s like some fans are more interested in the David Fletcher story turning out perfect than they are interested in having the best possible roster.

Fletcher played some OF in his first couple of years…He is capable of being a true utility guy…Maddon tried to force that with some guys-Rengifo, Thaiss- but I think Fletcher could actually pull it off..

[angelsnationtalk]

28 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Yeah but that’s kind of true for about any utility player.  If the rest of your team is stacked, sure you can survive with an Ok player batting 9th.

I am not accusing YOU specifically of this but it seems like some fans just love this guy so much they want to just keep imaging how they can possibly have him in the starting lineup with contrived situations.

And by the way, I am not going to be shocked if Fletcher plays well enough next year to have a role beyond a utility player.  If that happens it happens.  But it’s just not a good plan to expect it.

The best plan is to put guys into roles where they are not long shots to deliver on, and for Fletcher that role Is super utility.

Totally agree with what you're saying. I agree Fletcher is bench/super utility. I guess what i was trying to say was having him in the 9th spot and starting 2b is much more palatable with a star SS. 

I'd like the defense if that's all he provided. Under those circumstances, of course. 

If the Angels think Rengifo/Fletcher is the future then i'm extremely concerned. 

[Vlad27Trout27]

My choices is  Bogarts! fills out the roster nicely!

[Dtwncbad]

37 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

While Andrus has averaged 2.5 oWAR the past 3 seasons, he’s only averaged 0.1 dWAR.

Need defense, already added two bats to the lineup.

$10+ million in 2023 seems much for that.

Mlb trade rumors chat today predicted Andrus at 1 year $8m.

[TempeAngel]

I agree that we can upgrade at SS. Andrus is not that guy. He's Fletcher at this point of his career, a low BB and low OBP player.

Upgrade.

Don't pay $10 M for what you already have (FanGraphs 2/20). There is no value in that.

I don't think Perry will sign Andrus.

[Warfarin]

19 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Fletcher played some OF in his first couple of years…He is capable of being a true utility guy…Maddon tried to force that with some guys-Rengifo, Thaiss- but I think Fletcher could actually pull it off..

Don't think I'd want Fletcher and his sub 700 OPS in LF/RF.  

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, TempeAngel said:

I agree that we can upgrade at SS. Andrus is not that guy. He's Fletcher at this point of his career, a low BB and low OBP player.

Upgrade.

Don't pay $10 M for what you already have (FanGraphs 2/20). There is no value in that.

I don't think Perry will sign Andrus.

They don’t already have that. If they did then I’d agree. 

[BTH]

11 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Totally agree with what you're saying. I agree Fletcher is bench/super utility. I guess what i was trying to say was having him in the 9th spot and starting 2b is much more palatable with a star SS. 

I think his offense is much more palatable if he’s starting at SS than 2B.

League average wRC+ for 2B is 99.

League average wRC+ for SS is 96.

 

I can live with a SS who is below average offensively and above average defensively but I can’t live with a 2B who is below average offensively and above average defensively.

[Warfarin]

If the team really was willing to go above the luxury tax, which I highly doubt, then IMO the better move would be to sign either deGrom or Verlander, then trade one of Sandoval/Detmers for Adames (I say those names, because per BTV, that is a "fair" trade - straight-up).

deGrom/Verlander would have a high AAV, short contract, which to me is far more desirable than having another player on an 8+ year contract.

Thus - you'd upgrade your rotation, you'd upgrade SS, and you'd also maintain significantly more financial flexibility than one of the "big 4" SS would provide.

But again, I just don't see us going above the luxury tax.  I think, at the absolute most, we have 20mil left to spend.