Official 2022-23 Offseason Hot Stove Thread

[BTH]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

That is your hypothetical not mine. 

 

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

They don’t already have that. If they did then I’d agree. 

But how is Andrus any better than Fletcher as starting SS?

He had one good season, and he hadn’t had a wRC+ above 76 the previous four seasons.

[Vlad27Trout27]

My question is would you spend 30+ mil on one of the elite SS or spend that 30 mil on middle of the rotation or better starter (i.e Bassit or senga) and a closer? 

[BTH]

7 minutes ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

My question is would you spend 30+ mil on one of the elite SS or spend that 30 mil on middle of the rotation or better starter (i.e Bassit or senga) and a closer? 

Given those choices, an elite SS.
 

But my question is if they even have $30M+ to spend.

I don’t think they do.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Reading g these comments on Fletcher. Just want to give credit to whoever it was like a year ago who said "You can't walk out of Cypress".

[Docwaukee]

57 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

I assume it's trying to recapture the David Eckstein moment. Trouble is, Eckstein was only above league average as a hitter twice. His defense made it work, but Fletcher isn't Eckstein at shortstop. 

Eck was a decent defensive SS.  A bit better than avg.  I feel like they are actually pretty similar except that Fletcher has the better arm.  

I think people overly defend Fletcher because he's kind of the underdog.  

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

I disagree only because I value Andrus higher than Fletcher as a starting SS.

I'll say what nobody else will. 

David Fletcher is a depth backup piece, a true utility infielder. He shouldn't be starting the majority of games for the Angels.

I suggested Andrus a while back but the main point is that I want another league avg defender/hitter for the MIF because I really don't want to go to WAR with Fletcher, Rengifo and Soto as the primary three options with almost nothing behind them.   That's just a ton of risk and I've heard this song before.   

[Stradling]

25 minutes ago, Trendon said:

 

But how is Andrus any better than Fletcher as starting SS?

He had one good season, and he hadn’t had a wRC+ above 76 the previous four seasons.

By not having two years of OPS of .622. 
Also it isn’t whether he’s better than Fletcher it’s is he better than Soto or Velazquez. 

[DMVol]

30 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Don't think I'd want Fletcher and his sub 700 OPS in LF/RF.  

Not on a regular basis….but it would beat Lagares or Sierra or (fill in the blank)….

[Erstad Grit]

21 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Given those choices, an elite SS.
 

But my question is if they even have $30M+ to spend.

I don’t think they do.

Of course they do. They're about to get 3 billion dollars. 

[BTH]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

By not having two years of OPS of .622. 
Also it isn’t whether he’s better than Fletcher it’s is he better than Soto or Velazquez. 

In a vacuum, I agree that Andrus provides an upgrade over Soto and Velazquez— but the issue is that it’s not in a vacuum and I’d rather use the money that Andrus will get elsewhere.

[BTH]

1 minute ago, Erstad Grit said:

Of course they do. They're about to get 3 billion dollars. 

Let me rephrase: will they spend $30M more?

Recent history says they won’t. Does the pending sale change that? That’s the question.

[BTH]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

By not having two years of OPS of .622. 
Also it isn’t whether he’s better than Fletcher it’s is he better than Soto or Velazquez. 

Also Soto and Velazquez aren’t a high bar to clear.

What type of player do you view Andrus as in 2023? His offense was horrible from 2018-2021.

[Stradling]

11 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Also Soto and Velazquez aren’t a high bar to clear.

What type of player do you view Andrus as in 2023? His offense was horrible from 2018-2021.

A player that has a good chance of being better than Fletcher. 

[BTH]

Just now, Stradling said:

A player that has a good chance of being better than Fletcher. 

Does he really have a good chance of that?

Over the last five seasons:

Andrus: .254/.302/.371, 82 wRC+, 7.9 fWAR in 2305 PA.

Fletcher: .278/.324/.360, 87 wRC+, 7.3 fWAR in 2083 PA.

 

Fletcher had a higher xwOBA, 7 more DRS, and the same OAA in 1,000 less innings at SS than Andrus last season.

Andrus is 34 and Fletcher is 28.

[Angels 1961]

2 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Does he really have a good chance of that?

Over the last five seasons:

Andrus: .254/.302/.371, 82 wRC+, 7.9 fWAR in 2305 PA.

Fletcher: .278/.324/.360, 87 wRC+, 7.3 fWAR in 2083 PA.

 

Fletcher had a higher xwOBA, 7 more DRS, and the same OAA in 1,000 less innings at SS than Andrus last season.

Andrus is 34 and Fletcher is 28.

Andrus would add depth

[BTH]

3 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Andrus would add depth

Yes, and I’m referring to Stradling’s comment where he said he views Andrus as having “a good chance of being better than Fletcher.”

[Stradling]

8 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Does he really have a good chance of that?

Over the last five seasons:

Andrus: .254/.302/.371, 82 wRC+, 7.9 fWAR in 2305 PA.

Fletcher: .278/.324/.360, 87 wRC+, 7.3 fWAR in 2083 PA.

 

Fletcher had a higher xwOBA, 7 more DRS, and the same OAA in 1,000 less innings at SS than Andrus last season.

Andrus is 34 and Fletcher is 28.

The last two years Fletcher has been awful. His approach is awful, his results awful.  So yea I’d probably pick Andrus to outperform him offensively. 

[Stradling]

Fletcher has been a 70 and 77 OPS+ the last two seasons. 

[Angels 1961]

2 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Yes, and I’m referring to Stradling’s comment where he said he views Andrus as having “a good chance of being better than Fletcher.”

Halos need better depth than Wade, Mayfield and Duffy type. 

[BTH]

Just now, Stradling said:

The last two years Fletcher has been awful. His approach is awful, his results awful.  So yea I’d probably pick Andrus to outperform him offensively. 

Fletcher offense has been awful the last two seasons, but he was also dealing with an injury for at least some of that time period.

I’d say the younger player who has better expected stats and defensive metrics is the better bet, but we clearly disagree.

[TempeAngel]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

The last two years Fletcher has been awful. His approach is awful, his results awful.  So yea I’d probably pick Andrus to outperform him offensively. 

You want to use 2022 against Fletcher but discount it when discussing Walsh? Really?

[BTH]

1 minute ago, Angels 1961 said:

Halos need better depth than Wade, Mayfield and Duffy type. 

Yeah, they do— but that has no relevance when comparing Andrus and Fletcher in the context of who will he the better player in 2023.

[BTH]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Fletcher has been a 70 and 77 OPS+ the last two seasons. 

He was also injured for part of that time.

Andrus had an OPS+ of 78, 78, 60, and 73 the previous four seasons before his 2023 season.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Fletcher offense has been awful the last two seasons, but he was also dealing with an injury for at least some of that time period.

I’d say the younger player who has better expected stats and defensive metrics is the better bet, but we clearly disagree.

Did the injury cause him to swing at 50% of pitches and lower his walk rate to 3%?  If so why didn’t he change his approach after returning from surgery back to what was successful for him and the team?  

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, TempeAngel said:

You want to use 2022 against Fletcher but discount it when discussing Walsh? Really?

You are arguing with the wrong person pal. 

[BTH]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Did the injury cause him to swing at 50% of pitches and lower his walk rate to 3%?  If so why didn’t he change his approach after returning from surgery back to what was successful for him and the team?  

He probably didn’t change his approach because he had a 100 wRC+ from the time he returned until he got injured again.

His approach is an issue, but the data shows that his average exit velocity dropped in 2021 and 2022 from where it was from 2018-2020, which shows he was clearly hampered by the injury.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Trendon