OC Register: Angels GM Perry Minasian believes he added impact with 4 pitchers signed before lockout

[AngelsWin.com]

Angels general manager Perry Minasian had some help in landing the player he called “one of our top priorities, if not our top priority.”

After the Angels officially announced a four-year, $58 million deal with closer Raisel Iglesias, Minasian said several players on the team and Manager Joe Maddon had called Iglesias in the past few days to urge him to sign.

“I think it shows how much the team really respects the player,” Minasian said on Wednesday night. “Multiple guys called, and they weren’t asked to.”

Iglesias will make $10 million in 2022 and $16 million in each of the three following seasons. His signing pushes the Angels to about $172 million committed to salaries for 2022, which is about $10 million below their payroll from 2021.

The question now is what the Angels can still do to continue upgrading their pitching staff, although all of that will be on hold once the lockout begins on Thursday.

The Angels added right-handers Noah Syndergaard and Michael Lorenzen to the rotation, the latter getting an opportunity to start after pitching almost exclusively in relief for the past five years. They join a group that includes Shohei Ohtani, Patrick Sandoval and José Suarez. The Angels plan to use a six-man rotation.

Many of the top free agent starters who could have supplemented the group signed in the past few days. Minasian wouldn’t comment on which ones they pursued or how close they came to deals for any of them.

“Obviously any chance you can get impact, you’d like to take that shot,” Minasian said. “We felt like we have added some impact arms. And again, the offseason’s not over. There’s time to continue to improve and we will. We will look to do that.”

Minasian added: “I don’t think there’s any pitching staff that’s good enough. If you ask anybody, they want to be better. Pitching is so hard to acquire and you can never have enough.”

Carlos Rodon, Clayton Kershaw and Zack Greinke are among the high-profile free agent starters who are unsigned. There are also trade possibilities, such as the Cincinnati Reds’ Luis Castillo and Sonny Gray and the Oakland A’s Sean Manaea and Chris Bassitt.

While many fans certainly would have loved to see the Angels ink a pitcher like Max Scherzer, Robbie Ray or Marcus Stroman before they went elsewhere, Minasian believes the Angels did make significant improvements in their pitching staff.

Iglesias returned to the bullpen after a season in which he recorded 34 saves with a 2.57 ERA. He is now joined by newly acquired left-hander Aaron Loup, who had an 0.95 ERA last season with the New York Mets.

Syndergaard, who was a top-of-the-rotation starter before Tommy John surgery, gives the rotation some upside, with risk that he might not be back to his form after throwing two innings in the last two years.

In Lorenzen, the Angels are taking a flier on a pitcher who has struggled for the past two years. Lorenzen is an Orange County native and Cal State Fullerton product who wanted to come home and also get a chance to start.

“I’ve always admired the power arm, the stuff, the pitch mix,” Minasian said. “We feel like a transition to starter, which is what he’s been dying to do, to have a shot to start from Day One, was warranted. We do think there’s some things there for pitch mix standpoint, delivery standpoint, that we can enhance.”

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Minasian compared Lorenzen to Derek Lowe and C.J. Wilson, both of whom transitioned from the bullpen to the rotation successfully.

Lorenzen also can play outfield and hit, making him the second most accomplished two-way player currently in the big leagues, behind Ohtani.

Minasian was noncommittal as to how the Angels might take advantage of Lorenzen’s bat.

“That’s intriguing,” Minasian said. “Obviously he can do a lot of things on a baseball field. He can play the outfield well. He can swing the bat. We obviously have a really creative manager that’s not scared to experiment to a certain extent. I think that combination is always good. The more flexibility you have on the roster, I think the better off you are.”

The Angels designated left-hander Sam Selman for assignment to create a roster spot for Iglesias.

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[Angelsjunky]

I really hope they go after Rodon. I know there's injury risk, but after DeGrom and maybe Burnes, he was the best starter in the majors on a per inning basis, at least according to fWAR. His 4.9 fWAR would have been the highest by an Angel since Haren and Weaver in 2011.

Rodon is a hard player to evaluate, though, in terms of estimated contract. I'm guessing he gets something like 3/$70M, but I could see anything from 1/$20M to 4/$90M. I wouldn't give him the latter, though.

 

[failos]

6 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I really hope they go after Rodon. I know there's injury risk, but after DeGrom and maybe Burnes, he was the best starter in the majors on a per inning basis, at least according to fWAR. His 4.9 fWAR would have been the highest by an Angel since Haren and Weaver in 2011.

Rodon is a hard player to evaluate, though, in terms of estimated contract. I'm guessing he gets something like 3/$70M, but I could see anything from 1/$20M to 4/$90M. I wouldn't give him the latter, though.

 

I’ll change my username to “I like balls” if he signs Rodon, Kershaw, or any other big name pitchers.

[Docwaukee]

12 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I really hope they go after Rodon. I know there's injury risk, but after DeGrom and maybe Burnes, he was the best starter in the majors on a per inning basis, at least according to fWAR. His 4.9 fWAR would have been the highest by an Angel since Haren and Weaver in 2011.

Rodon is a hard player to evaluate, though, in terms of estimated contract. I'm guessing he gets something like 3/$70M, but I could see anything from 1/$20M to 4/$90M. I wouldn't give him the latter, though.

 

It seriously wouldn't surprise me if he got anywhere from 3/45 to 5/125.  But I think he'll be less than Gausman and Ray and more than Gray and Matz.  Somewhere around Rodriguez.  So I think it'll be like 4/70.  

[rafibomb]

Just curious. Would you guys feel any differently if Syndergaard had signed at least a 2 year deal and Lorenzen as well? For me it’s just the idea that two of our main guys we are “counting on” are technically free agents at the end of next season as well. And if it does work out, we can lose them next season still and we are back at square one.

[ukyah]

7 minutes ago, rafibomb said:

Just curious. Would you guys feel any differently if Syndergaard had signed at least a 2 year deal and Lorenzen as well? For me it’s just the idea that two of our main guys we are “counting on” are technically free agents at the end of next season as well. And if it does work out, we can lose them next season still and we are back at square one.

that's certainly a big part of it. although they're jack asses for not adding ray or stroman at exceedingly affordable contracts. it's just more of the same.

[Inside Pitch]

3 hours ago, rafibomb said:

Just curious. Would you guys feel any differently if Syndergaard had signed at least a 2 year deal and Lorenzen as well? For me it’s just the idea that two of our main guys we are “counting on” are technically free agents at the end of next season as well. And if it does work out, we can lose them next season still and we are back at square one.

two years would have been ideal, for me.

[Warfarin]

7 hours ago, rafibomb said:

Just curious. Would you guys feel any differently if Syndergaard had signed at least a 2 year deal and Lorenzen as well? For me it’s just the idea that two of our main guys we are “counting on” are technically free agents at the end of next season as well. And if it does work out, we can lose them next season still and we are back at square one.

I wished we had signed Syndergaard to a 1 year deal with a vesting option for a 2nd if he hit a certain number of innings, but I think Syndergaard is the one who wanted to sign a one year deal then re-enter the market, so not like we could have forced him to take a deal like that.

As for being back to square one - I think part of the plan/hope is that some of the young pitchers continue to progress.  Maybe they do, and by next season, we have a "core" of Ohtani, Sandoval, Detmers, Suarez, Canning, with Bachman, Bush, Rodriguez (pending his health) on the horizon.

And maybe, if that's the case, and if we help Syndergaard return to form, we'll re-sign him, and he'll combine with the above core to be a solid rotation for years.

[DCAngelsFan]

7 hours ago, rafibomb said:

Just curious. Would you guys feel any differently if Syndergaard had signed at least a 2 year deal and Lorenzen as well? For me it’s just the idea that two of our main guys we are “counting on” are technically free agents at the end of next season as well. And if it does work out, we can lose them next season still and we are back at square one.

Exactly - 1 year contracts limit your exposure to a long-term mistake, but also do nothing for us past next season.   

No matter how good Snydergaard is next season, that does nothing for the team in 2023 - and if he's spectacular, it's almost worse, because you either have a giant hole to fill and/or a worse contract.  It only makes sense if it gives your young guys another year to develop.  

And there *is* that - we've got some young pitchers that have some potential coming along.

And it gives us some money to extend Ohtani.  

Whatever - it is what it is - disappointed these pitchers signed contracts we should've been able to compete for - but going forward, I'd like to see us try to sign Rodon - the 6-man rotation should help mitigate any workload-related injury risk, and that rotation has the potential to be really, really good.  

I think the fact we couldn't sign Stroman - an LA resident who signed a below-market deal - tells me we weren't really serious about signing any more large deals, and certainly weren't going to breach the "salary cap" threshold, no matter how much we tried to convince ourselves that Arte would see that "this was the year."   

Deja vu all over again 

[Lou]

Stroman lives in L.A.?

[AngelsFanSince86]

11 hours ago, AngelsWin.com said:

Minasian added: “I don’t think there’s any pitching staff that’s good enough. If you ask anybody, they want to be better. Pitching is so hard to acquire and you can never have enough

Wow. That's the biggest cop out I've heard from an Angels GM. 

Yes Perry, if you ask the playoff contenders with some of the best pitching staffs in the game, they want to improve. Yet you, with one of the worst, who has been criticized for needing to vastly improve the staff, has chosen to marginally improve. Cool.

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

Stroman lives in L.A.?

Fewer Italians than NY.

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, DCAngelsFan said:

Exactly - 1 year contracts limit your exposure to a long-term mistake, but also do nothing for us past next season.   

No matter how good Snydergaard is next season, that does nothing for the team in 2023 - and if he's spectacular, it's almost worse, because you either have a giant hole to fill and/or a worse contract.  It only makes sense if it gives your young guys another year to develop.  

And there *is* that - we've got some young pitchers that have some potential coming along.

And it gives us some money to extend Ohtani.  

Whatever - it is what it is - disappointed these pitchers signed contracts we should've been able to compete for - but going forward, I'd like to see us try to sign Rodon - the 6-man rotation should help mitigate any workload-related injury risk, and that rotation has the potential to be really, really good.  

I think the fact we couldn't sign Stroman - an LA resident who signed a below-market deal - tells me we weren't really serious about signing any more large deals, and certainly weren't going to breach the "salary cap" threshold, no matter how much we tried to convince ourselves that Arte would see that "this was the year."   

Deja vu all over again 

I agree that Rodon might be worth considering in terms of the 6-man rotation.

I do think there is a possibility we could always re-sign Syndergaard if he does well.

Consider - next year, Upton's salary is off the books.  We should effectively consider his salary as going towards Ohtani's future extension/salary.

Syndergaard is signed to a 21 mil deal this year.  If he pitches well, we could re-sign him to an annual AAV of 20-25mil, depending on how he does, which wouldn't really cost much more on an annual basis, since it'd essentially be continuing the salary he has now.

Long-term, we'd have a core of Trout, Rendon, Ohtani, Syndergaard as far as expensive contracts go.  Iglesias can be lumped into this as well, although his contract isn't that onerous.

This would require that our young pitching emerge and become an asset.  If it does, a core of Ohtani, Syndergaard, Sandoval, Detmers, and Suarez could be very good.  And we'd have Canning, Bachman, Bush, Daniels, etc available and in the pipeline.

Again, it would require our youth to develop well, but I could see Syndergaard being added as a "long-term piece" to go along with our young core.

[AngelsFaninGA]

1 hour ago, DCAngelsFan said:

Exactly - 1 year contracts limit your exposure to a long-term mistake, but also do nothing for us past next season.   

No matter how good Snydergaard is next season, that does nothing for the team in 2023 - and if he's spectacular, it's almost worse, because you either have a giant hole to fill and/or a worse contract.  It only makes sense if it gives your young guys another year to develop.  

And there *is* that - we've got some young pitchers that have some potential coming along.

And it gives us some money to extend Ohtani.  

Whatever - it is what it is - disappointed these pitchers signed contracts we should've been able to compete for - but going forward, I'd like to see us try to sign Rodon - the 6-man rotation should help mitigate any workload-related injury risk, and that rotation has the potential to be really, really good.  

I think the fact we couldn't sign Stroman - an LA resident who signed a below-market deal - tells me we weren't really serious about signing any more large deals, and certainly weren't going to breach the "salary cap" threshold, no matter how much we tried to convince ourselves that Arte would see that "this was the year."   

Deja vu all over again 

Given our track record with starting pitching and our refusal to tap into the high/medium end of the market to mitigate our downside risks, I have no problem only signing the guys we do sign to one year deals

[UndertheHalo]

Didn’t Rodon have a shoulder problem ?

[HeavenlyHalos]

42 minutes ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

Given our track record with starting pitching and our refusal to tap into the high/medium end of the market to mitigate our downside risks, I have no problem only signing the guys we do sign to one year deals

That’s what they have been doing. It’s failed miserably.

[UndertheHalo]

1 hour ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

Given our track record with starting pitching and our refusal to tap into the high/medium end of the market to mitigate our downside risks, I have no problem only signing the guys we do sign to one year deals

Ya I mean this is a rational and probably correct way of looking at this.  I don’t think there will ever be an escape of Arte’s “right guy” mind set.  So we’ll never get guys like Stroman or Ryu or whoever like that.  Better to not fuck up too badly and stick to the 1 year deals.  Probably. 

[AngelsFaninGA]

10 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Ya I mean this is a rational and probably correct way of looking at this.  I don’t think there will ever be an escape of Arte’s “right guy” mind set.  So we’ll never get guys like Stroman or Ryu or whoever like that.  Better to not fuck up too badly and stick to the 1 year deals.  Probably. 

Even with a guy like Bundy who gets us one good year, he doesn't have the pedigree and skillset to maintain his success beyond that. I wouldn't want to be stuck with a guy like that for another 3 years. 

I could easily see both Syndergaard and Lorenzen having resurgent years, signing large multiyear deals with other teams next year, then falling flat on their face. I'd consider that a win for us.

[Taylor]

59 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Didn’t Rodon have a shoulder problem ?

He'd fit in here. The devil you know, etc.

[UndertheHalo]

38 minutes ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

Even with a guy like Bundy who gets us one good year, he doesn't have the pedigree and skillset to maintain his success beyond that. I wouldn't want to be stuck with a guy like that for another 3 years. 

I could easily see both Syndergaard and Lorenzen having resurgent years, signing large multiyear deals with other teams next year, then falling flat on their face. I'd consider that a win for us.

I like Snydergaard and think there’s decent chance for a him to be the top shelf guy we need.  The problem of course is that this guy that is worth a roll of the dice they uhh didn’t.  So if he does end up turning out (like we hope) there’s decent risk they just lose him next year.  Anyway.  I guess our chances of keeping him long term are a bit better than they would be otherwise.  I really hope it works out with him. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by UndertheHalo

[Angelsfan1984]

11 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I like Snydergaard and think there’s decent chance for a him to be the top shelf guy we need.  The problem of course is that this guy that is worth a role of the dice they uhh didn’t.  So if he does end up turning out (like we hope) there’s decent risk they just lose him next year.  Anyway.  I guess our chances of keeping him long term are a bit better than they would he otherwise.  I really hope it works out with him. 

Can a new team offer him a QO? Assuming the QO will be in the next CBA.

If so maybe Perry was willing to lose this years 2nd and get one next year assuming the class was better.

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Can a new team offer him a QO? Assuming the QO will be in the next CBA.

If so maybe Perry was willing to lose this years 2nd and get one next year assuming the class was better.

That’s a good question.  I would think that they could make him a QO. 

[UndertheHalo]

22 minutes ago, Taylor said:

He'd fit in here. The devil you know, etc.

Why have you not appeared in the hot stove thread ? Very sad. 

[ukyah]

9 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Can a new team offer him a QO? Assuming the QO will be in the next CBA.

If so maybe Perry was willing to lose this years 2nd and get one next year assuming the class was better.

 

7 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

That’s a good question.  I would think that they could make him a QO. 

they can not offer him a QO, regardless of the new CBA.

[UndertheHalo]

2 minutes ago, ukyah said:

 

they can not offer him a QO, regardless of the new CBA.

Fuck.  Also thanks. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by UndertheHalo