Official 2021-22 Hot Stove League Thread.

[T.G.]

If they don't reach an agreement by midnight, it doesn't necessarily mean there will be a lock out.  The "lock out" is a negotiation ploy.  If the two sides are close to an agreement or at least working towards one, the owners won't necessarily institute a lock out.

[Dtwncbad]

Just now, Warfarin said:

I am guessing the lockout will continue until at least February.  Likely no traction will occur until games start getting threatened.

The calendar certainly does play a role with urgency driving progress.

I would like to propose we put the negotiating parties into a SpaceX capsule and fuck with their minds on what the actual calendar is.  Blast them into space and convince them that it is suddenly February so they just hammer it out with the urgency that being in February provides.

Then bring them back to earth and, with the deal in place and ink dried, tell them that the capsule was also a time machine and that we decided to go back to early December to help both sides better prepare for the season.

I think this would be a pretty good plan.  Or I guess we could just puts guns to their heads and tell them they have 72 hours to fucking work it out.

 

[ScruffytheJanitor]

2 hours ago, Blarg said:

Upton is still on the roster. So in effect they have their outfield set. Soler would be a waste of money. 

If Joc Pederson's price comes down enough (3-6 million?), he'd make a killer platoon with Upton. 

[failos]

7 minutes ago, ScruffytheJanitor said:

If Joc Pederson's price comes down enough (3-6 million?), he'd make a killer platoon with Upton. 

Hopefully Upton gets very little playing time. I’d rather see Adell or Marsh taking over LF.

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, failos said:

Hopefully Upton gets very little playing time. I’d rather see Adell or Marsh taking over LF.

If those guys are not traded they have to play.  Upton has to be behind them.  Unless he hits 19 homers in spring training.

[failos]

Just now, Dtwncbad said:

If those guys are not traded they have to play.  Upton has to be behind them.  Unless he hits 19 homers in spring training.

Let’s just hope they aren’t traded.

[Hubs]

3 minutes ago, failos said:

Hopefully Upton gets very little playing time. I’d rather see Adell or Marsh taking over LF.

I think Upton gets 120 games if he is healthy and productive, unfortunately. Trout will undoubtably miss some time, but hopefully it's only a few games. If you take into account that there are 486 games in the OF, and Trout is going to play hopefully 145-150 of these that leaves 336 games.

I expect Ward to get some OF time--- probably 30 starts honestly. And at 1st base, Walsh did not do well against left handers last year. (.170/.208/.357) and so the right handed Ward makes sense there in 30-40 games. I think Walsh gets some starts against lefties, but probably only starts 130 games, with Ward starting the other 30. 

Then you essentially have a three way platoon for the other spots, at 100 games a piece. Now we want the kids to play, so perhaps, Adell and Marsh go up and down a bit, but by end of June, they'll be up and starting most days.

Upton though will get April and May playing 5 days a week, and probably June, before they move on or relegate him to the bench.

 

 

 

 

[Hubs]

Also Marsh has just 28 games at AAA, and Adell has only 73 last season and 27 the season before that. I would not be surprised to see one traded or to see one (probably Marsh) start the year at AAA.

 

[ScruffytheJanitor]

4 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Upton though will get April and May playing 5 days a week, and probably June, before they move on or relegate him to the bench.

Upton is still really good against lefties. Also, while Marsh and Adell feel ready for prime time,  they haven't set the world on fire yet. There is still a chance one or both ends up struggling enough to get demoted. I'd be surprised if Upton wasn't still getting regular at bats in August. 

[Dtwncbad]

3 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Also Marsh has just 28 games at AAA, and Adell has only 73 last season and 27 the season before that. I would not be surprised to see one traded or to see one (probably Marsh) start the year at AAA.

 

Unless they suddenly have a new level of struggle, neither of them belong in the minors ever again.  They both showed they can function in the majors.  They need to make major league adjustments now.

[Hubs]

Just now, Dtwncbad said:

Unless they suddenly have a new level of struggle, neither of them belong in the minors ever again.  They both showed they can function in the majors.  They need to make major league adjustments now.

Adell hit .246 with a .295 OBP and Marsh hit .254 with a .317 OBP. If you think they're not gonna bounce up and down in 2021, you're mistaken.

I still really believe in these guys and hope they start the majority of games in the OF (along with Trout) in 2022, but they're not gonna start 145+ games each on a team yearning to reach the playoffs and carrying a high 190M's payroll, and likely exceeding the tax. 

In 2023 yes, but not in 2022. I'd bet one will start in the majors and one in the minors. By June or July they will be the full time OF...but not in April.

 

 

[Dtwncbad]

4 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Adell hit .246 with a .295 OBP and Marsh hit .254 with a .317 OBP. If you think they're not gonna bounce up and down in 2021, you're mistaken.

I still really believe in these guys and hope they start the majority of games in the OF (along with Trout) in 2022, but they're not gonna start 145+ games each on a team yearning to reach the playoffs and carrying a high 190M's payroll, and likely exceeding the tax. 

In 2023 yes, but not in 2022. I'd bet one will start in the majors and one in the minors. By June or July they will be the full time OF...but not in April.

 

 

I totally disagree.  The team needs at least 4 OF, and it is reasonable to expect Upton and Trout to not play 162 games.  I can easily see both being on the mlb roster start to finish with the team basically playing all 4 OF.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Dtwncbad

[UndertheHalo]

 

[ThisismineScios]

I did not want Gray going into the offseason, but at this point I would welcome that option. Castillo would be great but would cost Adell and Bachman/Detmers to start.

The question is, can they get Gray without giving up Adell or Marsh? I agree, at this point keep those guys because the upside is big and they will be relatively inexpensive the next few years. Also, they add a lot to this lineup in terms of speed, power, and energy. If we maintain our top 4 guys, Fletcher, Adell and Marsh near the bottom of the lineup make for a great 1 - 9. 

There are also other options available via trade that wouldn't cost major prospects. 

[Hubs]

4 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I totally disagree.  The team needs at least 4 OF, and it is reasonable to expect Upton and Trout to not play 162 games.  I can easily see both being on the mlb roster start to finish with the team basically playing all 4 OF.

I don't disagree that there will be 4 OF on Opening Day, the 4th will be Taylor Ward. Who is also your primary backup at 1st, seeing as he is the only right handed bench bat besides Rengifo.

I would like them to carry 5, with Trout, the young guys, Upton and Ward, but with the uncertainty in the MINF, Fletcher certainly having one spot, but the other manned by Rengifo and Wade as of now, unless they go with 7 arms in the pen, they won't carry 6 IF and 5 OF and 2 C.

So I'll make due with a bench of an OF (Upton or Adell), Ward, Wade, and Thaiss.

[mmc]

 

[Dtwncbad]

4 minutes ago, Hubs said:

I don't disagree that there will be 4 OF on Opening Day, the 4th will be Taylor Ward. Who is also your primary backup at 1st, seeing as he is the only right handed bench bat besides Rengifo.

I would like them to carry 5, with Trout, the young guys, Upton and Ward, but with the uncertainty in the MINF, Fletcher certainly having one spot, but the other manned by Rengifo and Wade as of now, unless they go with 7 arms in the pen, they won't carry 6 IF and 5 OF and 2 C.

So I'll make due with a bench of an OF (Upton or Adell), Ward, Wade, and Thaiss.

If the 4th OF was going to be basically a bench guy (with the other 3 getting all the playing tune) then I think the 4th OF is Ward.  I don’t think the Angels want Marsh or Adell not getting a big chunk of playing time.

If 4 guys are going to get big chunks of regular playing time (rotating four through three spots) then Ward is going to be the guy in the minors with that playing time going to Marsh and Adell.

 

[Hubs]

5 minutes ago, ThisismineScios said:

I did not want Gray going into the offseason, but at this point I would welcome that option. Castillo would be great but would cost Adell and Bachman/Detmers to start.

The question is, can they get Gray without giving up Adell or Marsh? I agree, at this point keep those guys because the upside is big and they will be relatively inexpensive the next few years. Also, they add a lot to this lineup in terms of speed, power, and energy. If we maintain our top 4 guys, Fletcher, Adell and Marsh near the bottom of the lineup make for a great 1 - 9. 

There are also other options available via trade that wouldn't cost major prospects. 

I agree with this, Gray or Castillo or Mahle helps the rotation, and I don't want to trade a bat, as it opens a spot that is currently filled cheaply and they don't have a lot of depth still.

But I disagree with the bottom of the lineup being good. Fletcher was pretty terrible with the bat outside of a few weeks in the middle of the season, and Adell and Marsh are unproven with near .300 OBP's. To say nothing about the black hole offensively that is shortstop unless Fletcher plays there and they sign Taylor or Davis breaksout in ST and takes one of the MINF jobs.

We have 4 suspect lineup spots (Fletcher, Rengifo, Adell, Marsh), with 5 extremely productive spots (Trout, Ohtani, Rendon, Walsh, and Stassi, assuming Ward gets the start at 1st against tough lefties).

That's why they need to add a MINF via FA (preferably Taylor as he is the cheapest, but Story also makes sense).

[Dtwncbad]

Just now, mmc said:

 

Thanks Jon.  Groundbreaking as usual.

[Hubs]

Just now, Dtwncbad said:

If the 4th OF was going to be basically a bench guy (with the other 3 getting all the playing tune) then I think the 4th OF is Ward.  I don’t think the Angels want Marsh or Adell not getting a big chunk of playing time.

If 4 guys are going to get big chunks of regular playing time (rotating four through three spots) then Ward is going to be the guy in the minors with that playing time going to Marsh and Adell.

 

I understand this POV, but without a right handed bat capable of platooning with Walsh against tough lefties, I think the bench is weak. Especially with a MINF trio of Fletcher, Rengifo, and Wade.

In 2023 and beyond, the OF is Trout, Adell, Marsh, and Ward, so I agree they will all get significant playing time in 2022. But Upton is on the team too.

 

[mmc]

 

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, Hubs said:

I understand this POV, but without a right handed bat capable of platooning with Walsh against tough lefties, I think the bench is weak. Especially with a MINF trio of Fletcher, Rengifo, and Wade.

In 2023 and beyond, the OF is Trout, Adell, Marsh, and Ward, so I agree they will all get significant playing time in 2022. But Upton is on the team too.

 

And I absolutely cringe if the answer to needing a right handed bat to platoon with Walsh is Taylor Ward.

I would rather throw Upton there and have Adell and Marsh in the lineup together that day.

[eligrba]

2 minutes ago, mmc said:

 

Really?

I want his job.  I can send out obvious comments regarding baseball related stuff just as well as Hymen.  Some examples:

 

Teams still looking for opportunities to improve despite contract uncertainty.

Angels feel they have addressed the most important issues but are still looking to improve.

Players union and owners still are far apart.

Scherzer always wanted to return to the NL East.

 

[mmc]

 

[Hubs]

3 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

And I absolutely cringe if the answer to needing a right handed bat to platoon with Walsh is Taylor Ward.

I would rather throw Upton there and have Adell and Marsh in the lineup together that day.

Upton at 1st? 

For the Record, Ward's 2021 Splits vs. Lefties .303 AVG / .395 OBP / .455 SLG 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=wardta01&year=2021&t=b#plato

and Walsh's 2021. vs. Lefties .170 / .208 OBP / .357 SLG

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=wardta01&year=2021&t=b#plato

Forgive me if I see a natural fit.