OC Register: Angels GM Perry Minasian says comments from Shohei Ohtani, Mike Trout are to be expected

[AngelsWin.com]

ARLINGTON, Texas — After hearing his manager and two of his star players express a desire for the Angels to make the changes necessary for the club to win, Perry Minasian reacted with a shrug.

“Nobody wants to play on a losing team,” the Angels general manager said from the visitors’ dugout on Tuesday afternoon at Globe Life Field. “That’s something that I would expect everybody to say. Not shocking at all. As far as the winter that doesn’t change anything.”

Much was made in some circles – by media and fans – about comments from Mike Trout on Saturday and Shohei Ohtani on Sunday.

To Minasian, it was much ado about nothing.

Essentially, they said exactly what any player would say, Minasian said. He added that the front office is always been geared toward winning, regardless of what anyone says in a press conference.

“I appreciate what they said,” Minasian said. “I liked the fact that, obviously, Mike and Sho, they want to win. Those aren’t the only two players that want to win. There’s plenty of guys on this team currently, and I’m sure if you ask any player on any team, would say the same thing.”

Manager Joe Maddon also said that it would be wrong to take Ohtani saying he wants to win and interpret that as a threat to leave. Ohtani is currently set to be a free agent after the 2023 season.

“We all feel the same way,” Maddon said. “We all want to win. And I think anybody who misconstrues that as though he wants to leave, that’s trying to connect some dots that were not at all what he has said.”

The question, of course, is whether owner Arte Moreno and the front office will make the moves necessary to get the Angels back on top after a streak that has now reached six consecutive losing seasons.

“One thing I don’t have to worry about with him is he wants to win too,” Minasian said of Moreno. “Nobody wants to win more than him. And he’s shown a commitment, obviously, financially over the years, to investing in the club. I don’t think anybody can argue that. To me, the proof’s in the pudding to a certain extent, right?”

While the Angels certainly have spent big, it’s been mostly on position players. They have made offers to pitchers at the top of the market, but so far none have signed.

Maddon was more pointed with his comments last week, not only saying that the Angels needed to win but pinpointing that they need to acquire frontline starting pitchers to do it.

Minasian was noncommittal when specifically asked about upgrading the top of the rotation.

“There’s not many guys like that,” he said. “Obviously it’s difficult to get frontline players in general. Again, as far as the budget goes, it just depends on who is out there and opportunities we have. We have an ownership group that has shown a commitment to doing what they need to do to make this team as good as it can be. And I don’t think that’s going to change.

“It’s just got to make sense. The things we do have to make sense. That’s something that we’ll evaluate each and every player and see what’s there and what fits and make decisions and see where it goes.”

NOTES

Maddon said the Angels still aren’t sure if Ohtani will start the final game of the regular season on Sunday. They are waiting to see how Ohtani feels in the coming days…

Maddon moved Jared Walsh behind Ohtani in the order on Tuesday. Maddon had been reluctant to have the two lefties hit back-to-back because it would make them more vulnerable to left-handed pitchers. The Rangers had a right-handed starter on Tuesday, and also Maddon said he’s more willing to experiment when facing another team that’s out of the playoff race. “Just take it for a test drive,” Maddon said. “There’s no reason not to do that right now.”…

Taylor Ward joined the Angels’ taxi squad. Ward missed much of the second half at Triple-A rehabbing from an injury. He could be activated sometime in the final week of the season…

Minasian said Jaime Barria’s shoulder injury is nothing serious enough to have an impact on his health for next season…

Left-hander Reid Detmers gave up one run in two innings for Triple-A Salt Lake on Monday. It was his first outing after he spent a month on the COVID-related injured list. The Angels are undecided if Detmers will pitch in the majors over the weekend.

UP NEXT

Angels (RHP Janson Junk, 0-1, 3.75 ERA) at Rangers (LHP Taylor Hearn, 6-5, 4.55), Wednesday, 5:05 p.m., Bally Sports West, 830 AM

View the full article

[BTH]

16 minutes ago, AngelsWin.com said:

“One thing I don’t have to worry about with him is he wants to win too,” Minasian said of Moreno. “Nobody wants to win more than him. And he’s shown a commitment, obviously, financially over the years, to investing in the club. I don’t think anybody can argue that. To me, the proof’s in the pudding to a certain extent, right?”

We have an ownership group that has shown a commitment to doing what they need to do to make this team as good as it can be. And I don’t think that’s going to change.

I can argue that, Perry.

Arte Moreno hasn't shown a commitment to winning over the years, as exemplified by him:

- furloughing and letting go of scouts and employees within the last 18 months.

- treating minor leaguers poorly, forcing them to call him out publicly.

- not giving his baseball operations department full autonomy, with him nixing trades and imposing signings based on his own motivations rather than the best interests of the organization.

 

Was he pressed about any of those issues being examples of Arte not showing a full commitment to winning? @Jeff Fletcher ?

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, AngelsWin.com said:

Minasian was noncommittal when specifically asked about upgrading the top of the rotation.

“There’s not many guys like that,” he said. “Obviously it’s difficult to get frontline players in general. Again, as far as the budget goes, it just depends on who is out there and opportunities we have. We have an ownership group that has shown a commitment to doing what they need to do to make this team as good as it can be. And I don’t think that’s going to change.

“It’s just got to make sense. The things we do have to make sense. That’s something that we’ll evaluate each and every player and see what’s there and what fits and make decisions and see where it goes.”

I initially thought this read like Billy Eppler ..  But good lord if that bolded part doesn't sound like a direct quote from Arte Moreno.   

Perry parroting Arte isn't a surprise, but it's surprising to see it so early..  Hopefully it works out better this winter.

[Blarg]

I just hope they don't burn the pudding again next year. 

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

I initially thought this read like Billy Eppler ..  But good lord if that bolded part doesn't sound like a direct quote from Arte Moreno.   

Perry parroting Arte isn't a surprise, but it's surprising to see it so early..  Hopefully it works out better this winter.

Wow, it does sound like Arte. I can hear his voice saying that exact quote.

I do think part of what Perry said is for leverage and PR purposes. I don't think he wants to outright say "I agree, we need 2 front-line starters" because:

In regards to leverage, saying he needs 2 front-line starters may make trade or free agent negotiations more difficult.

In regards to PR purposes, he'd have to admit to failure if he doesn't land 2 front-line starters.

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

I initially thought this read like Billy Eppler ..  But good lord if that bolded part doesn't sound like a direct quote from Arte Moreno.   

Perry parroting Arte isn't a surprise, but it's surprising to see it so early..  Hopefully it works out better this winter.

I'm surprised you're surprised.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

5 hours ago, Trendon said:

I can argue that, Perry.

Arte Moreno hasn't shown a commitment to winning over the years, as exemplified by him:

- furloughing and letting go of scouts and employees within the last 18 months.

- treating minor leaguers poorly, forcing them to call him out publicly.

- not giving his baseball operations department full autonomy, with him nixing trades and imposing signings based on his own motivations rather than the best interests of the organization.

 

Was he pressed about any of those issues being examples of Arte not showing a full commitment to winning? @Jeff Fletcher ?

The context was about the major league payroll. That’s what we were talking about. 

[ScottT]

Yep.

[ScottT]

Fanatics. Yikes 

[Angel Oracle]

18 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The context was about the major league payroll. That’s what we were talking about. 

That’s the thing though.

You can’t win without investing in the nuts and bolts like scouting and development.

For whatever reason, Arte Moreno treats those and acquiring good starting pitching like they are kryptonite.

Heck, they fired the scout that found Mike Trout!

As long as those are the case, this team is going to struggle to contend.

Get ready for Javy Baez?

Edited September 30, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[ukyah]

i didn't like the way that read although i understand it's an impossible position for perry. my only real comment is, yes perry everybody does want to win, but few know how to win. i don't believe arte has absorbed the necessary lessons to lead a winning organization. we'll see if perry can navigate those waters successfully.

[Stradling]

10 hours ago, SurfWriter said:

Sure, it has to make sense but it also has to improve the team.  Minasian shrugging about player and manager comments doesn't sit well with me, along with his rather mealy mouthed comments about the commitment to upgrading.   As I recall, the Angels have traded away a number of good minor league prospects in past years to include in trades for pitchers who didn't stay after the season ended, too.  If they don't manage to get at least one, preferably two, excellent starting pitchers and maybe another solid reliever this winter, they've failed and the fans should be pissed.  And that doesn't mean they need to trade away more than one good current starter or promising player to get it done; there are some significant pitchers in the free agent market this year. I don't want to hear lame excuses and vague rationalizations.  Regarding current players, I wouldn't be that sad to see Upton go in a trade, especially since he has not been available or contributing much for the last year or two, but I doubt he has much trade value.

The last time we traded “good prospects” for pitching who didn’t stay after that year was 2014 and before that 2012.  So it’s been 7 or more accurately 9 years since this happened. Not really relevant. 

[Revad]

My guess is there are some things Minasian has to say PR wise but the part about the players (yes including Rendon) sounds right to me.  

[Torridd]

I agree with Perry. This shouldn't be news and no matter what any of the personnel say the organization should always be trying to get better.

[failos]

15 hours ago, AngelsWin.com said:

To Minasian, it was much ado about nothing.

[Angelsjunky]

10 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I'm surprised you're surprised.  

I'm surprised that you're surprised that he's surprised.

[Angels 1961]

13 hours ago, Blarg said:

I just hope they don't burn the pudding again next year. 

I checked the ingredients and no proof in pudding

[Angelsjunky]

I think there are two elements that play off each other, that have characterized the organizations failures over the Dipoto-Eppler-Minasian era (so far).

One, and we learned this from Dipoto: You can say the right things, but not know how to enact them well, whether due to a front office lacking in quality player evaluation, or just bad judgement in general. Remember Dipoto's rap about rebuilding while contending at the same time? That sounded good, and was smart in principe, but didn't work out: they didn't really contend, and the farm became more and more barren. Eppler was more understated, but seemed to love the "clean peanut" approach, but rarely came up with a gem. He put greater emphasis on the farm, although with mixed results. So far Minasian seems to be cut from the same cloth, with most of his moves being straight out of the Eppler playbook.

In other words, the approach of all three GMs makes sense on paper, or in the abstract, but it hasn't yielded much by the way of results. They all made some good moves, but lots of bad moves too and, well, the proof is in the pudding.

The other element is that this problem evidently extends to ownership (Arte), and may be exacerbated--even caused--by it. I mean, Arte is the common denominator.

Now to be fair to Arte, when he bought the team back in 2003, he quickly opened up his check-book and enabled Bill Stoneman to build a winner, leading to the most successful six-year period in franchise history. But after 2009, something broke down and a cascading series of unfortunate events occurred, first under Tony Reagins and then Jerry Dipoto. And this was exacerbated by a formerly lauded farm system yielding rather disappointing results (Wood, McPherson, Kotchman, Mathis, etc).

So the million dollar question is this: If Arte really wants to win, and the GMs say the right things, what's the problem? Is it just bad GMing or is Arte meddling, or some combination of both? How can one GM after the other seemingly be unable to turn the boat around, unless the problem is with the owner of the boat who keeps messing with the steering? And if that's the case, how is any GM to succeed in returning this franchise to glory?

To be fair, Minasian can't be judged in the same light as Eppler or Dipoto on account of only being in charge for a year. But he's on the clock, and he already has racked up some dubious moves (Quintana, Suzuki, Lagares, J Iglesias, the bullpen) that seem right out of the Eppler playbook. He's made some good moves, but so did his predecessors. But the end result hasn't been good.

But...injuries! Injuries happen every year, to every team. Now of course not many teams lose their two best position players for most of the year, but smart GMs plan for the worst, and deep orgs can fill the holes (gross). But even so, no org can adequately fill the 10+ WAR hole that Trout and Rendon left. This is one reason why we can't judge Minasian too harshly yet; let's see how the team looks when it doesn't lose two if its three best players for most of the year. A good franchise can--or should be able to--accommodate one such loss, but only the deepest teams can handle two.

I think what many fans want to see, and the only thing that will prove to them that Arte means what he says (he wants to win "more than anything") is a big free agent pitching acquisition (or two). I'm not sure that, in and of itself, will prove anything, except that Arte can release his fixation on spending big on position players only. And unless the team addresses its deeper issues--systemic issues in general, a thin scouting department, weak minor league system, bad defense, a perennially shoddy bullpen, etc--we're going to be in deja vu land year after year, and continue being the same kind of mediocre franchise that we were for 40 years before Stoneman captured lightning in a bottle in 2002. The difference being, and what makes it more noteworthy in the national news, the Angels now have the two most talented players in the game.

But despite the travesty that was this year, there's room for hope. The lineup has a lot of talent, and the Angels now have a nice collection of solid young starters. The farm system, while still relatively thin, is starting to fill out, and talent is percolating up to the major league level.

But something has to change this coming Hot Stove season. There's too much talent on this team for the Angels to go through yet another offseason in which they patch holes with bargain bin free agents and one-year Hail Mary rentals, in which the solution to the bullpen is sorting through peanuts looking for a shiny one. Minasian has to be bold and savvy, and Arte has to empower him to do so, without stepping in and fucking things up. To fail, once again, this offseason to acquire the pieces to return the team to contention would be devastating, both for the franchise and its fans, but also for Minasian's credibility, not only in the eyes of the fans, but probably also in the eyes of the guy who signs his paychecks. 

So no pressure, Perry, but this offseason will likely make or break your career, at least with the Angels. And Arte, back the fuck off and let the man do his job.

 

[Make Angels Great Again]

Jesus AJ. How faded are the letters on your keyboard?

[ukyah]

another note, if for no other reason than for it to be said, i think the whole narrative that arte only likes to spend on position players is circumstantial and not really based on any personal preference. i think it's more than likely just a short string of disconnected events combined with other people's decisions that make it appear that a conclusion can be made from a pattern that doesn't really exist.

i'm not really invested in the angels anymore, hopefully they make a ton of FA moves on the rotation and the bullpen this winter, plug and play at SS, and get a better defensive positioning bible. i think trading adell or marsh would be a mistake, they've got too much control left.

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

 

I think there are two elements that play off each other, that have characterized the organizations failures over the Dipoto-Eppler-Minasian era (so far).

 

The Angels failures over that period are really pretty simple…

3 things happened at once around 2015…

1. Mike Trout went from good to generational.

2. The farm system went from mediocre to abysmal.

3. Pujols and Hamilton’s contracts became giant busts.

You can’t fix 2 because of 1. And you can’t improve the MLB roster with trades because of 2 and you can’t do it in free agency because of 3.

(edit: “can’t” = “is much more difficult to do.”)

Edited September 29, 2021 by Jeff Fletcher

[IheartLA]

5 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The Angels failures over that period are really pretty simple…

3 things happened at once around 2015…

1. Mike Trout went from good to generational.

2. The farm system went from mediocre to abysmal.

3. Pujols and Hamilton’s contracts became giant busts.

You can’t fix 2 because of 1. And you can’t improve the MLB roster with trades because of 2 and you can’t do it in free agency because of 3.

(edit: “can’t” = “is much more difficult to do.”)

Oh how history repeats.

3 things also happened around 2021.

1. Shohei Ohtani went from good to MVP level.

2. The farm system went from abysmal to average.

3. Rendon and Upton’s contracts became giant busts.

Edited September 30, 2021 by IheartLA

[Angelsjunky]

4 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The Angels failures over that period are really pretty simple…

3 things happened at once around 2015…

1. Mike Trout went from good to generational.

2. The farm system went from mediocre to abysmal.

3. Pujols and Hamilton’s contracts became giant busts.

You can’t fix 2 because of 1. And you can’t improve the MLB roster with trades because of 2 and you can’t do it in free agency because of 3.

(edit: “can’t” = “is much more difficult to do.”)

Yeah, all those factors too, but I think what we're saying aren't incompatible, just looking at different levels of the problem.

What is the connective tissue? Ownership, that is Arte, and his alleged penchant to stick his nose into operations. My point as that while GMs have changed, the basic course of the franchise since 2009 has been the same. Arte is the common factor.

Regarding your point that "you can't fix 2 because of 1," I don't think that is really the case, unless you think that a high first round draft pick or two fixes the farm, or that trading Trout alone would have replenished the farm. A good farm system, as far as I understand it, is largely the result of a combination of good and plentiful scouting (including, and even especially, international), and player development. High draft picks are nice, but it seems only the top few picks are probably star caliber players, and sometimes not even that. To really make an impact through the draft would require a fallow period like the Astros went through in 2011-14. Meaning, you have to be really, really bad for awhile to get a significant infusion through high draft picks alone.

I think scouting is crucial part of the farm's poor quality. We all know that the Angels have a skeletal scouting staff, and the recent news about treatment of prospects is indicative of the state of the system. 

Meaning, I think the problem is that Arte doesn't value the farm system as much as he should, and he seemingly thinks the occasional big splash will lead to a winning team. He's straight out of the autocratic Steinbrenner/Angelos mold, but unfortunately closer to Angelos than Steinbrenner in terms of resources.

But yeah, those albatross contracts were enormously damaging, and we can add Wells onto the front and, to a lesser extent, Upton onto the end.

But I think you capture the essential nature of the Angels problem: a clusterfuck that is hard to get out of, because improving one element could weaken another. I think Eppler knew this and was taking a patient route, showing slow dividends with an improving farm, but all Arte saw was a win-loss column that didn't budge in five years.

[Angel Oracle]

Wish I could like that previous post multiple times.

Arte Moreno, the West Coast Angelos!!!!

Edited September 30, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

On 9/28/2021 at 4:44 PM, AngelsWin.com said:

One thing I don’t have to worry about with him is he wants to win too,” Minasian said of Moreno. “Nobody wants to win more than him. And he’s shown a commitment, obviously, financially over the years, to investing in the club. I don’t think anybody can argue that. To me, the proof’s in the pudding to a certain extent, right?”

Is it, "the proofs in the pudding?" or Is it, "the proof of the pudding is in the tasting?"