Griffin Canning getting an MRI on his elbow

[mulwin444]

21 minutes ago, Stradling said:

How many of you get surgery before a doctor tells you that you need surgery?   Or get a tooth pulled and replaced with an implant because of a couple of  cavities on that tooth?  If there is no tear then he is probably not getting TJ surgery until there is a tear.  It sucks as a fan because of the timeline but it is what it is.  

Every time a pitcher gets operated on, there is chance they never return.  It's why even with a partial tear (grade 2) gets PRP and rest because the alternative is career-altering.  

[mulwin444]

49 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

They are not going to perform surgery when there isn't a tear.  Usually, you will hear something about a grade 1 (stretched but no tear), 2 (stretched and partial tear), or 3 sprain of UCL (complete tear).  So, it sounds like he's grade 1.

Ohtani had a grade 2 sprain in July 2018, they tried PRP injections, let it rehab, and then it tore (grade 3) when he tried pitching before the end of 2018.

Again, Heaney had a partial tear (grade 2), attempted PRP, and, when healing "plateaued", he opted for surgery

GRich?  Yeah, partial tear...

So, unless he has a partial tear (grade 2), it's not the same as these other scenarios.

Could "chronic changes" mean "partial tear"?  Maybe...but they don't say it explicitly 

To amend what I said earlier, Jeff Fletcher just tweeted that when we signed Ohtani, he alreayd had a grade 1 sprain of the UCL and Canning doesn't even have that.

His injury appears to be "because I am a pitcher".

[UndertheHalo]

It’s really hard to not be cynical about this.  It’s easy for me to imagine this being even worse then just needing Tommy John Surgery right now.  If this stupid shit drags out through out the season, he barely pitches and then still ends up needing tommy john.  I mean...angels baseball baby. 

[Stradling]

16 minutes ago, True Grich said:

Does he perform TJ surgeries?

Yes, but not if there isn’t a tear.

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

It’s really hard to not be cynical about this.  It’s easy for me to imagine this being even worse then just needing Tommy John Surgery right now.  If this stupid shit drags out through out the season, he barely pitches and then still ends up needing tommy john.  I mean...angels baseball baby. 

Yep it sucks, but its also really dumb for us fans to get more pissed that the severity of his injuries don’t meet up with our fandom timeline.  

[UndertheHalo]

I’m not pissed Strad.  I am incapable of getting pissed about this stuff anymore.  It’s just that I suspect that whatever the worst case scenario is, that’s probably what will happen.  Fair enough I think.  

Edited February 28, 2020 by UndertheHalo

[Jay]

52 minutes ago, Stradling said:

How many of you get surgery before a doctor tells you that you need surgery?   Or get a tooth pulled and replaced with an implant because of a couple of  cavities on that tooth?  If there is no tear then he is probably not getting TJ surgery until there is a tear.  It sucks as a fan because of the timeline but it is what it is.  

It's completely fair that he shouldn't have surgery unless it is indicated.

As fans, we all saw this coming months ago. And yes, it sucks.

 

[UndertheHalo]

He of course shouldn’t get surgery now.  I’ve also seen people suggesting that.  Crazy. 

[Justin]

2 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

He of course shouldn’t get surgery now.  I’ve also seen people suggesting that.  Crazy. 

It's frustration. People (including me) are expecting it to be like Ohtani in '18: Canning doesn't pitch for a few months to let it heal, then as soon as he comes back, BAM, the UCL tears and he has to get the surgery, and now he's out until 2022. 

But there's no other option. As Stradling wrote earlier, it is what it is. We can't control the timeline. 

It sucks because he was my pick for the "breakout player" this season; I thought he was going to be a crucial piece to the rotation being much better than it was last year. And losing him makes it more likely that we will be subjected to yet another year of "the Angels are wasting Mike Trout" articles, of which I am so sick. 

[wopphil]

Sounds like this is the best possible outcome. Hopefully he will be ready to pitch by May. Seeing as how he will be on a strict innings limit anyway, I wouldn’t think a 4 to 8 week delay would be of much consequence.

[CanadianHalo]

Well I’m SHOCKED!

It’s a good thing Billy Boy made pitching such a huge priority this offseason...

Oh wait.

 

Here’s to hoping it is just normal wear and tear but regardless it doesn’t sound good. We needed Canning to take that next step this season and I was really looking forward to seeing him do so. This blows.

[VariousCrap]

Who wants to bet that Canning doesn't end up needing TJ this season?

[m0nkey]

Yeah I don't blame pitchers for not getting TJ surgery "just to get it over with".  It's still a major surgery and there's still a big chance a player doesn't regain his pre-surgery form

[Justin]

5 minutes ago, m0nkey said:

Yeah I don't blame pitchers for not getting TJ surgery "just to get it over with".  It's still a major surgery and there's still a big chance a player doesn't regain his pre-surgery form

Will doctors even do the surgery on someone without a tear? 

[mulwin444]

Just now, SoPas Angel said:

Will doctors even do the surgery on someone without a tear? 

Per another tweeted article: "To date, there is no data to support or even consider preventative UCL reconstruction to improve throwing velocity or prevent injuries in the future".

The best thing to do, per all credible sources, is to try and save/rehab the existing UCL and only operate if absolutely necessary. 

[Rollinghard]

2 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

From now on draft only high school pitchers and go straight to TJ surgery before they play a minor league game.

I already said that and got called dumb. 

[Declined]

Last time I heard the phrase "chronic changes to the elbow" was when they were talking about Andrew heaneys issues last year. Ended up being arthritis at the elbow joint & he was able to pitch after some rest. So there's still a small chance Canning won't need to have his arm amputated. 

[Rollinghard]

"preventative UCL reconstruction "

If I were a surgeon, I would strongly consider pioneering this. Remember Dr. Frank Jobe was considered a little crazy. 

And if we can't/won't send are draft picks straight to surgery how about mandatory preventive PRP? 

[Justin]

Just now, Rollinghard said:

"preventative UCL reconstruction "

If I were a surgeon, I would strongly consider pioneering this. Remember Dr. Frank Jobe was considered a little crazy. 

And if we can't/won't send are draft picks straight to surgery how about mandatory preventive PRP? 

Would preventative still be called Tommy John? Or would they call it the "Angels Procedure"?

[T.G.]

12 minutes ago, SoPas Angel said:

Would preventative still be called Tommy John? Or would they call it the "Angels Procedure"?

I believe it would be called malpractice.

[mulwin444]

11 minutes ago, Rollinghard said:

"preventative UCL reconstruction "

If I were a surgeon, I would strongly consider pioneering this. Remember Dr. Frank Jobe was considered a little crazy. 

And if we can't/won't send are draft picks straight to surgery how about mandatory preventive PRP? 

Difference was, Dr Frank Jobe operated on people who actually needed surgery.  

Also, just because you get Tommy John surgery doesn't mean you won't need ever need again...it also doesn't mean you won't need it again soon after the first one (see Jonny Venters).

The reason it hasn't been considered to this point is it is not a good idea/viable solution.

 

[Erstad Grit]

Dang,  I wish this offseason had multiple established top pitchers available or I wish our GM could have constructed a trade for a SP

[Junkballer]

34 minutes ago, Rollinghard said:

"preventative UCL reconstruction "

If I were a surgeon, I would strongly consider pioneering this. Remember Dr. Frank Jobe was considered a little crazy. 

And if we can't/won't send are draft picks straight to surgery how about mandatory preventive PRP? 

First, do no harm.

[Dtwncbad]

Preventive surgery video.

https://streamable.com/073sp

[Dick B Back]

54 minutes ago, Declined said:

Last time I heard the phrase "chronic changes to the elbow" was when they were talking about Andrew heaneys issues last year. Ended up being arthritis at the elbow joint & he was able to pitch after some rest. So there's still a small chance Canning won't need to have his arm amputated. 

Last time I saw “chronic changes to the elbow” was something about @tdawg87 and his bunk in the Trout thread.