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Griffin Canning getting an MRI on his elbow


Chuck

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3 minutes ago, Tank said:

i've also heard it's very detrimental to kids arms/elbows if they start throwing breaking pitches too soon and too often.

Yes, and often they are taught terrible curve ball mechanics.

If a pitcher can throw strikes with a fastball and change-up they will succeed all up to lower level high school. Breaking pitches shouldn't start until then IMO.

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10 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Real Sports had a really good segment on this. Didnt feature baseball (from what I remember), but a ton of college and younger level athletes who have had TJ level injuries, specifically from only playing one sport.

My dad was drafted by the Phillies as a pitcher out of high school in 1967 and he played baseball, basketball and football.  He was the top starter on his team so there was an expectation he'd go deep into games and even then he was being pressured by the high school coach to make baseball a year round commitment.  I think a lot of these kids have a ton of innings on their arms before they ever make it out of high school.

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1 minute ago, mulwin444 said:

My dad was drafted by the Phillies as a pitcher out of high school in 1967 and he played baseball, basketball and football.  He was the top starter on his team so there was an expectation he'd go deep into games and even then he was being pressured by the high school coach to make baseball a year round commitment.  I think a lot of these kids have a ton of innings on their arms before they ever make it out of high school.

Does this count as an "in the biz" post?

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16 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Does this count as an "in the biz" post?

Maybe?  I don't claim to be "in the biz" myself...but I did get the peripheral benefit of hearing the same minor league stories for the past 40+ years.

Edit: this is he:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=meyer-001phi

Also, my Mom's cousin pitched for the Twins for a bit:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hugheji03.shtml

Oh, and my Uncle "pitched" (Haha) in the Angels org for a bit:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=hughes003mic

 

Edited by mulwin444
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"Joe Maddon admitted he is concerned."

 

That's a refreshing change from "Nothing to be concerned about at the moment" to "We'll wait to see the results of the MRI" to ""It's worse than we expected" to "We're concerned" to "TJ surgery scheduled for tomorrow."  Maddon is being efficient, cutting out a few steps.

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3 minutes ago, Glen said:

"Joe Maddon admitted he is concerned."

 

That's a refreshing change from "Nothing to be concerned about at the moment" to "We'll wait to see the results of the MRI" to ""It's worse than we expected" to "We're concerned" to "TJ surgery scheduled for tomorrow."  Maddon is being efficient, cutting out a few steps.

- announcement after the game that its just dehydration

-48 hours later, announcement that he skips a turn in the rotation out of an abundance of precaution

-three weeks later, announcement that he is gone for the season

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Bring back more off speed specialists if you want pitchers to have longer productive careers.

And teach the knuckleball!

The least stress on the arm, and a great knuckleball pitcher can play forever. Hoyt Wilhelm, probably the best of them all played till he was nearly fifty. 

Or even the Bert Hooten 'knucklecurve.' 

It takes time to master the technique, and requires a specific unique grip with emphasis on the fingertips and nails. But when it works it can be effective. Mastering control is the main problem because it dips and dives all over the plate and strike zone. Lots of passed balls too, so often these pitchers have to have a catcher experienced with the way the ball suddenly moves.

Even if pitchers don't use it exclusively it serves as a great changeup and lessens the need for more arm straining pitches.

When it doesn't 'knuckle" properly it sails in slow and flat and can be pounded, but like any off speed pitch hitters need to stay back and get their timing right. 

I guess Wakefield was the most recent pure knuckleball specialist, and obviously isn't being taught or promoted. But it can prolong a career.

The emphasis on power this and power that has become a macho thing too. Homeruns and strikeouts. Glorified by analytics and the media. So much of the subtle skills of the game have been overshadowed by the need for quick fix hilites. But I digress ...

By contrast, the most damaging pitch on an arm also isn't used much any more. 

The screwball, with it's clockwise release. In the seventies, possibly the best ever screw ball pitcher won a Cy Young award. Mike Marshall, relief pitcher and stopper for the Expos and then Dodgers, where he won that award.

The strain on the arm is intense, but Marshall was a student of kinesiology and knew the science well. I think he earned a doctorate and later became a professor. For his purposes he was able to execute the technique to perfection and had a long career. Doubt he could he could have lasted as a starter, but he did make more appearances than  most relievers of that era.

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34 minutes ago, Glen said:

"Joe Maddon admitted he is concerned."

 

That's a refreshing change from "Nothing to be concerned about at the moment" to "We'll wait to see the results of the MRI" to ""It's worse than we expected" to "We're concerned" to "TJ surgery scheduled for tomorrow."  Maddon is being efficient, cutting out a few steps.

 

30 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

- announcement after the game that its just dehydration

-48 hours later, announcement that he skips a turn in the rotation out of an abundance of precaution

-three weeks later, announcement that he is gone for the season

 

Yours sounds more accurate.

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13 minutes ago, Duren, Duren said:

Bring back more off speed specialists if you want pitchers to have longer productive careers.

And teach the knuckleball!

The least stress on the arm, and a great knuckleball pitcher can play forever. Hoyt Wilhelm, probably the best of them all played till he was nearly fifty. 

Or even the Bert Hooten 'knucklecurve.' 

It takes time to master the technique, and requires a specific unique grip with emphasis on the fingertips and nails. But when it works it can be effective. Mastering control is the main problem because it dips and dives all over the plate and strike zone. Lots of passed balls too, so often these pitchers have to have a catcher experienced with the way the ball suddenly moves.

Even if pitchers don't use it exclusively it serves as a great changeup and lessens the need for more arm straining pitches.

When it doesn't 'knuckle" properly it sails in slow and flat and can be pounded, but like any off speed pitch hitters need to stay back and get their timing right. 

I guess Wakefield was the most recent pure knuckleball specialist, and obviously isn't being taught or promoted. But it can prolong a career.

The emphasis on power this and power that has become a macho thing too. Homeruns and strikeouts. Glorified by analytics and the media. So much of the subtle skills of the game have been overshadowed by the need for quick fix hilites. But I digress ...

By contrast, the most damaging pitch on an arm also isn't used much any more. 

The screwball, with it's clockwise release. In the seventies, possibly the best ever screw ball pitcher won a Cy Young award. Mike Marshall, relief pitcher and stopper for the Expos and then Dodgers, where he won that award.

The strain on the arm is intense, but Marshall was a student of kinesiology and knew the science well. I think he earned a doctorate and later became a professor. For his purposes he was able to execute the technique to perfection and had a long career. Doubt he could he could have lasted as a starter, but he did make more appearances than  most relievers of that era.

Why are all your posts like 10 paragraphs long?

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2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Too many pitchers throw too hard too soon in their development?      Are Little Leagues, Pony Leagues, etc. going to eventually understand that? 

Canning didn't pitch that many innings at UCLA, and has been treated with kid gloves here.   And still, two shutdowns and now this 

There was a fangraphs article that suggested that it wasn't so much the innings total but a combination of game pitch count and not adhering to the Smart Pitch guidelines regarding rest.  He was overused according to FG and that's the only reason he dropped to the Angels.

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2 hours ago, mulwin444 said:

Maybe?  I don't claim to be "in the biz" myself...but I did get the peripheral benefit of hearing the same minor league stories for the past 40+ years.

Edit: this is he:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=meyer-001phi

Also, my Mom's cousin pitched for the Twins for a bit:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hugheji03.shtml

Oh, and my Uncle "pitched" (Haha) in the Angels org for a bit:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=hughes003mic

 

Ok now that’s pretty impressive. 

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