Do you think Eppler will get any more pitching?

[Dick B Back]

Just saying “hi” since this turned into a dick thread.

[mulwin444]

1 minute ago, Dick B Back said:

Just saying “hi” since this turned into a dick thread.

Not sure if it's "tricky" yet so stay tuned...

[failos]

He'd be a fool not to

[mmc]

Maybe, but I think we have no shot whatsoever at getting a guy like Clevinger, Boyd, Gray, or Ray.  Ardaya said in his Q&A yesterday that the Angels value these pitchers completely differently than the selling teams, and until they come down (which is don’t foresee happening any time soon, if at all), a trade isn’t happening.  Some team who is trying to win now may overpay but it isn’t going Billy.  I fully expect if we make another trade for a starter, it’s going to be of the same quality as Dylan Bundy.

[Angel Oracle]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yep, which GM lands us Cole or Strasburg Or Wheeler?  Also how long until DC regrets that contract?  Which top of the rotation arms have been traded this off season?  Kluber and who else?  Also I don’t know of anyone that would have given up Marsh for Kluber and if that is what Cleveland asked for I guess that is proof that Eppler isn’t going to panic.  

The Nats screwed up the whole salary structure for FA pitchers, for a guy who has exceeded 150 innings TWICE in the past FIVE years.    Anddd in those three seasons with under 150 innings pitched, his ERA was in the mid 3.00s for each of those seasons.

Let that sink in.  

I get rewarding Strasburg for helping to win a WS title.    But 7 years/$245 million for an injury prone pitcher, who was solid not great in 3 of the past 5 seasons?  

[mmc]

Can't imagine Rendon is too happy with the offseason.  He said a big reason of why he signed here is because we were going all in and would be adding more big pieces to go with him.  Since then we've added Teheran, Castro, and Andriese (who I don't buy has any starter potential whatsoever).

[Stradling]

I am sure over time they will continue to add pieces.  He is here for 7 years.  

[Duren, Duren]

Everything changes with spring training. All the theories and plans of the off season get a reality check on the field.

Remember, Maddon is new to this roster. No preconceived opinions based on actually managing anyone on this team. He and his coaches will use their eyes and brains to evaluate the talent as they hit the field extensively for the first time. Of course no one will be in top form, but you get to see their skill sets and psychological make up.

Regarding pitching, it gets tricky. No one will be razor sharp immediately, but velocity, repertoire, technique, and so on will be studied and cross referenced with all their career numbers and tendencies.

I think that maybe by the end of spring training Maddon and his coaches/advisors and Eppler will have an in depth discussion about what to expect from whom they have and if trades or other forms of change are worth pursuing. 

Maddon is the field boss, not Eppler. Obviously they have to be in sync, but the manager has to have a plan on how each player will be used. 

A pitching staff is an integrated unit, more than a bunch of individuals. Starters, spot starters/long relief, late inning relief specialists. Lefties, righties. Ideally they all have to compliment each other. Realistically there will be weak spots.

The off season is when all the fan evaluations and hypothetical deals are discussed. But there comes a point when you just have to let it go and wait till spring training is under way. There may still be some low level trades or player movement but the core of the roster seems set.

Spring training will be the time for final tweaking. Maybe semi-big deals, maybe very little. Once the roster is set, I doubt much change will occur till maybe a few months into the season when team patterns are known.

 

 

[Angel Oracle]

The communication between the field and FO should be much smoother in 2020.    Eppler now has much more experienced, and talented, guys in the manager's and pitching coach's chairs.

[Docwaukee]

Eppler didn't do everything he could for 2020 because he's not trying to build for just 2020 or even 2021.  

Cole is the only pitcher I'm truly bummed that we missed out on.  I'd have been happy with Wheeler but his deal is a little tough to stomach.  

I think the thing that people are most upset about is the realization that Eppler is essentially telling you that the team probably isn't good enough yet to justify some of those mid range deals for guys like Madbum, Ryu, Wheeler, etc

there's a lot of youth and therefore a lot of question marks for this team.  

[mmc]

12 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Eppler didn't do everything he could for 2020 because he's not trying to build for just 2020 or even 2021.  

Cole is the only pitcher I'm truly bummed that we missed out on.  I'd have been happy with Wheeler but his deal is a little tough to stomach.  

I think the thing that people are most upset about is the realization that Eppler is essentially telling you that the team probably isn't good enough yet to justify some of those mid range deals for guys like Madbum, Ryu, Wheeler, etc

there's a lot of youth and therefore a lot of question marks for this team.  

Eppler should be trying to save his job.  I don’t see him being employed next season with the pitching he has assembled.  And if the team isn’t “good enough” to sign those pitchers, how is it good enough to sign Rendon?  If you’re signing a guy like Rendon, you’re going all in on maximizing him and Trout’s primes.  

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, mymerlincat said:

Eppler should be trying to save his job.  I don’t see him being employed next season with the pitching he has assembled.  And if the team isn’t “good enough” to sign those pitchers, how is it good enough to sign Rendon?  If you’re signing a guy like Rendon, you’re going all in on maximizing him and Trout’s primes.  

Oh fuck no.  That’s the dumbest thought ever. 

[mmc]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Oh fuck no.  That’s the dumbest thought ever. 

I’m talking solely from his perspective.  He can’t be feeling confident about his job status with the moves he’s made so far.  It’s very surprising to me that he’s basically punting the season.

[Stradling]

8 minutes ago, mymerlincat said:

I’m talking solely from his perspective.  He can’t be feeling confident about his job status with the moves he’s made so far.  It’s very surprising to me that he’s basically punting the season.

We have no idea if he’s punting on the season, the trade market will take shape between now and the deadline.  He also picked up Rendon and 350 innings in two starting pitchers, plus a pretty decent catcher, so to say he’s punting is ridiculous.  I absolutely don’t want a GM to makes moves out of fear of losing his job.  Moves like that are moving Marsh for Kluber.  

[Docwaukee]

15 minutes ago, mymerlincat said:

Eppler should be trying to save his job.  I don’t see him being employed next season with the pitching he has assembled.  And if the team isn’t “good enough” to sign those pitchers, how is it good enough to sign Rendon?  If you’re signing a guy like Rendon, you’re going all in on maximizing him and Trout’s primes.  

I guess you just don't get what I'm trying to say.  

[Angels Never Die]

I hope so, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 hours ago, Dick B Back said:

Just saying "hi" what's up since this turned into a dick thread.

I get it, haha

[Inside Pitch]

3 hours ago, mymerlincat said:

Maybe, but I think we have no shot whatsoever at getting a guy like Clevinger, Boyd, Gray, or Ray.  Ardaya said in his Q&A yesterday that the Angels value these pitchers completely differently than the selling teams, and until they come down (which is don’t foresee happening any time soon, if at all), a trade isn’t happening.  Some team who is trying to win now may overpay but it isn’t going Billy.  I fully expect if we make another trade for a starter, it’s going to be of the same quality as Dylan Bundy.

We don't -- at least not until midseason at which point there will be a ton of different variables.   Our prospects may be worth more, the team may be out of it, teams with pitching may in turn be out of it.   I think at this point Eppler is taking a page out of Beane's book.  He's gonna run with what he has and look to see what he can improve on at the break.   

Dunno what it means for his future but I'm glad he avoided making stupid moves in some effort to "save his job".

[Lou]

lol @ punting on the season.

Incredible.

[Inside Pitch]

3 hours ago, mymerlincat said:

Eppler should be trying to save his job.  I don’t see him being employed next season with the pitching he has assembled.  And if the team isn’t “good enough” to sign those pitchers, how is it good enough to sign Rendon?  If you’re signing a guy like Rendon, you’re going all in on maximizing him and Trout’s primes.  

Id lose all respect for him if he put saving his job over the best interest of the baseball team.  I know the easy response is "well winning is in the best interest, yadda yadda".   Indeed it is, but not at the expense at winning over the long haul.    This team has given out a 13 year contract and a 7 year contract in back to back seasons -- to me those are long haul moves.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, mymerlincat said:

Eppler should be trying to save his job.  I don’t see him being employed next season with the pitching he has assembled.  And if the team isn’t “good enough” to sign those pitchers, how is it good enough to sign Rendon?  If you’re signing a guy like Rendon, you’re going all in on maximizing him and Trout’s primes.  

Totally disagree.

Firstly, and ive said this before, epplers report card wont be known until hes gone anyway. If anything, rather than trying to save his job, he should be martyring himself... if he cares about the team. He inherited a trainwreck... his job is to hand the next guy the keys to a finished or at least close to product.

As far as the trout window, heres the bad news. Its already closing. And its not epplers fault.

The smart move is to focus on the Adel window, with trout the older statesman in his post peak. Think about it like this... would you rather have spent money in 2016 give or take to pad trout with talent around him? Or go back in time and sign off on the cj wilson and hamilton deals, to pad pujols and weaver?

 

Trying to freeze time for trout will end up biting us in the ass.

[mmc]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

We have no idea if he’s punting on the season, the trade market will take shape between now and the deadline.  He also picked up Rendon and 350 innings in two starting pitchers, plus a pretty decent catcher, so to say he’s punting is ridiculous.  I absolutely don’t want a GM to makes moves out of fear of losing his job.  Moves like that are moving Marsh for Kluber.  

When you go into the season with the pitching he has assembled, you’re essentially saying you don’t care about competing.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, mymerlincat said:

When you go into the season with the pitching he has assembled, you’re essentially saying you don’t care about competing.

Nice narrative.   Are you Canadian by chance?

[mmc]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Nice narrative.   Are you Canadian by chance?

Nope, just being honest.  Absolutely no one who isn’t an Angels superfan thinks we have any shot at the playoffs with the pitching we have.  It’s embarrassing.  5 years into Eppler’s tenure, 5 years of the best player of this generation’s prime, and we still aren’t expected to make the playoffs.  All this talk from Arte about going on and Billy fails to deliver once again.  And of course, the same posters are making the same excuses.

[mulwin444]

6 minutes ago, mymerlincat said:

Nope, just being honest.  Absolutely no one who isn’t an Angels superfan thinks we have any shot at the playoffs with the pitching we have.  It’s embarrassing.  5 years into Eppler’s tenure, 5 years of the best player of this generation’s prime, and we still aren’t expected to make the playoffs.  All this talk from Arte about going on and Billy fails to deliver once again.  And of course, the same posters are making the same excuses.

Ok, so, knowing you had zero chance at Cole and Strasburg and very little chance to compel Wheeler to come out West, who do we sign/trade for?

You're good with a Marsh-centered package for Kluber?

Going 6 years $100+ mil on Bumgarner? 

Want to match 4 years on Ryu?

Is your less embarrassing scenario committing 4 years to Keuchel as opposed to 1 year to Teheren  despite essentially being the same pitcher at this point?