Do you think Eppler will get any more pitching?

[wopphil]

4 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

You don’t think those things are the same?

Injury risk is a part of determining how much money you want to spend on someone. 

Fletch, do you get the sense there are no decent arms available via trade? Sure looks like the Tigers, Rockies and Red Sox have little interest in trading Boyd, Gray and Price. It also doesn’t seem like many notable trades have happened this late in the off-season in recent years.

[mulwin444]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

I was a pretty loud proponent of signing both Pineda and Gibson -- because I viewed them as potential value pick ups.  Gibson has it in him to be better than he's been, stuff wise.  I think pitching in front of Minnesota's awful defenses may have hurt his numbers some -- but the thing with him is the ability to eat innings.  Pineda was a pure upside play.  When he's been healthy he's always been a solid pitcher with the ability to dominate at times.    Ultimately both guys signed for cheap -- and that IMO was the primary reason to target them both.   I regret missing out on those two guys more than the name guys people here lost their shit over..    Alex Wood was another guy I was talking about as early as October.  

Gibson would have been fine as a value play but don't you think his acquisition becomes a little redundant after the Bundy trade?  He's getting $5 mil and will be arbitration eligible next season as well.  To me, trading Rondons for Bundy and his two controllable years seems like the value play as opposed signing Gibson to a 3 year commitment.  They seem similar so what am I missing in regards to Gibson?  

Again, in regards to Pineda and the timing of his signing, I'm not sure other teams were really being considered beyond the Twins.  I mean, I heard zero rumors about his agent saying he's available despite reports that a number of teams were interested in signing him.  Everything came together really fast...

[Claude]

11 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

You don’t think those things are the same?

Injury risk is a part of determining how much money you want to spend on someone. 

I’m talking about today’s Angels budget. Arte has a certain number in mind and that’s where we’re at. If he signed Cole that would’ve been it for the offseason. He signed Rendon and Teheran. He wasn’t going to sign Rendon and Ryu. 

[Inside Pitch]

15 minutes ago, RendZone said:

You’re spinning out of control. You know damn well that after missing out on Cole and signing an elite 3B in Rendon, the possibility of signing Ryu quickly became more about money than possible injuries. 

Maybe you missed it but I was talking about Gibson, Pineda, Wood, Walker, Teheran as value plays ..  Because I KNEW they weren't going to go nuts spending wise.    I spent months saying that Arte would be the biggest factor this offseason -- when they spent what they did on Rendon, I knew he was his "right player".    Ryu, Keuchel, Bum..   Nope.    I also went on record as being okay with the team not signing either Ryu or Keuchel BEFORE they went elsewhere.

Keep trying to "spin" your way out of your BS.. 

 

[Inside Pitch]

On 1/24/2020 at 11:21 AM, mulwin444 said:

Gibson would have been fine as a value play but don't you think his acquisition becomes a little redundant after the Bundy trade?  He's getting $5 mil and will be arbitration eligible next season as well.  To me, trading Rondons for Bundy and his two controllable years seems like the value play as opposed signing Gibson to a 3 year commitment.  They seem similar so what am I missing in regards to Gibson?  

Well, I didn't want Bundy... I would have much prefered Gibson to Bundy....  I see Bundy as more of a project and a reach than Gibson at 3 years 28 mil guaranteed, but I actually believe Bundy might be the better upside play.  Still, I think at one point I said Bundy was one of the guys I didn't  want at all.   I always worry about guys that are looking to relearn how to pitch after seeing their velocity plummet like Bundy has.  There are tons of guys who do just that and go on to have successful careers, I just was hoping for more certainty.  

I saw Teheran as being the better "project" pitcher and he was my Bundy.  Teheran has the much better track record but he too has seen his velocity evaporate and would benefit from moving away from his FB usage.  I actually wonder if the Angels targeting them both is due to some in house belief that they can find something to unlock with both their sinkerballs.    May just be as simple as thinking the defense will be a huge plus for them -- but, they are just as likely to set records for HRs allowed given their recent histories.

Key for both is if they buy into moving away from their FBs.

[Claude]

10 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Maybe you missed it but I was talking about Gibson, Pineda, Wood, Walker, Teheran as value plays ..  Because I KNEW they weren't going to go nuts spending wise.    I spent months saying that Arte would be the biggest factor this offseason -- when they spent what they did on Rendon, I knew he was his "right player".    Ryu, Keuchel, Bum..   Nope.    I also went on record as being okay with the team not signing either Ryu or Keuchel BEFORE they went elsewhere.

Keep trying to "spin" your way out of your BS.. 

 

They signed Rendon and Teheran. They’re currently at $187M for the 40 man so any talk about signing Ryu is poppycock. 

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, RendZone said:

They signed Rendon and Teheran. They’re currently at $187M for the 40 man so any talk about signing Ryu is poppycock. 

And?   Who exactly are you arguing with?   When have you seen me say the money was there for Ryu?  I just said the opposite you dolt, he is not someone Arte would see as "the right guy".  The voices in your head are not in any way shape or form anyone else's opinions.   Maybe pay attention to what people are actually saying.

Out of control indeed.

[mulwin444]

On 1/24/2020 at 11:44 AM, Inside Pitch said:

Well, I didn't want Bundy... I would have much prefered Gibson to Bundy....  I see Bundy are more of a project and a reach than Gibson at 3 years 28 mil guaranteed, but I actually believe Bundy might be the better upside play.   Still, I think at one point I said Bundy was one of the guys I didn't  at all.   I always worry about guys that are looking to relearn how to pitch after seeing their velocity plummet like Bundy has.  There are tons of guys who do just that and go on to have successful careers, I just was hoping for more certainty.  

I saw Teheran as being the better "project" pitcher and he was my Bundy.  Teheran has the much better track record but he too has seen his velocity evaporate and would benefit from moving away from his FB usage.  I actually wonder if the Angels targeting them both is due to some in house belief that they can find something to unlock with both their sinkerballs.    May just be as simple as thinking the defense will be a huge plus for them -- but, they are just as likely to set records for HRs allowed given their recent histories.

Key for both is if they buy into moving away from their FBs

I can see HR concerns for Bundy but it certainly will help him moving out of the AL East.  He's also been pretty steady with 9.0+ K/9 over the past two seasons so he's still capable of missing bats and HR totals actually went down from 41 allowed in 2018 to 29 last season in about the same amount of innings in a season that saw record HR totals.  I guess I look at Gibson and see a guy who also gives a lot of hits, some HRs, same walk totals as Bundy but strikes out less people, and I am not seeing what separates them.

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

I can see HR concerns for Bundy but it certainly will help him moving out of the AL East.  He's also been pretty steady with 9.0+ K/9 over the past two seasons so he's still capable of missing bats and HR totals actually went down from 41 allowed in 2018 to 29 last season in about the same amount of innings in a season that saw record HR totals.  I guess I look at Gibson and see a guy who also gives a lot of hits, some HRs, same walk totals as Bundy but strikes out less people, and I am not seeing what separates them.

I just like Gibson's warts better.   Gave up a lot of hits in front of awful Twins defenses -- seriously, awful.   GB rate for his career of 51.5%    Both guys had k/9 Rates of 9.0 last year, but Gibson sports a career HR/9 of 1.05 to Bundy's 1.67.   In the age of launch angle that's a big difference.

[Claude]

14 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

And?   Who exactly are you arguing with?   When have you seen me say the money was there for Ryu?  I just said the opposite you dolt, he is not someone Arte would see as "the right guy".  The voices in your head are not in any way shape or form anyone else's opinions.   Maybe pay attention to what people are actually saying.

Out of control indeed.

Arte’s “right guy” reference was someone that he would’ve  found necessary to sign that would take him over the threshold. Someone that would be the finishing piece for a deep playoff run. Get your story straight. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, RendZone said:

Arte’s “right guy” reference was someone that he would’ve  found necessary to sign that would take him over the threshold. Someone that would be the finishing piece for a deep playoff run. Get your story straight. 

More spin doctoring... LOL.  Just STFU already.  

Ryu isn't the right player -- he never would be.   Ryu is exactly the sort of pitcher you have railed against for years, fragile, wrong side of 30, in need of pitch counts, and expensive for FOUR years .  Thats what I called you on, that's what you're trying to deflect away from.   

Instead of pretending that hasn't been your position why not actually admit to it and say you believe Ryu is the exception to the rule?   Whether or not  I agree at least it's a position I could respect instead of this gutless display of spin.

[Inside Pitch]

18 minutes ago, RendZone said:

Get your story straight. 

BTW -- This was incredibly funny..   Incredibly funny.

[mulwin444]

12 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I just like Gibson's warts better.   Gave up a lot of hits in front of awful Twins defenses -- seriously, awful.   GB rate for his career of 51.5%    Both guys had k/9 Rates of 9.0 last year, but Gibson sports a career HR/9 of 1.05 to Bundy's 1.67.   In the age of launch angle that's a big difference.

Read an article last season about Bundy I thought was interesting:

https://www.pitcherlist.com/going-deep-dylan-bundy-should-make-a-few-simple-changes/

"Bundy bumped his sinker usage up significantly for three games, and then for the rest of the year, it hovered around 10%, which he had only done in one game prior in 2019. This alone is encouraging, but the results were too.

First, let’s see how it affected his strikeouts and walks, as well as ground-ball and fly-ball tendencies:

The strikeouts went down some, and the walks went up some. That’s not a good combination, but his HR/FB and HR/9 both came down to earth, and he started inducing a lot of ground balls. Right now, our top priority is to get Bundy’s home run numbers to come down from where they are, since they are so drastically bloated. This change seems to have achieved that, at least temporarily.

Next, let’s take a look at his ERA and ERA estimators:

Across the board, this looks really good. The sample size isn’t huge, but this is more than a month of pitching (47.1 innings pitched), and there’s a substantive change that we can point to."

It goes on from there but it brings up some good points about how, if he mixes up his current repertoire, there could be noticeable improvement.  I wonder if it wasn't something along these lines that prompted Eppler to snag Bundy. 

[Inside Pitch]

Yep -- I've said multiple times both guys would be better off punting on the true FB and focusing on their sinkers.   Which is why I think the Teheran and Bundy moves tie into something they believe they can tap into.

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, RendZone said:

I’m talking about today’s Angels budget. Arte has a certain number in mind and that’s where we’re at. If he signed Cole that would’ve been it for the offseason. He signed Rendon and Teheran. He wasn’t going to sign Rendon and Ryu. 

Every team has a budget. Every team also puts a certain value on certain players. All of it mixes together. 
 

So are suggesting that if the Angels had gotten Donaldson for $24M instead of Rendon for $35M that they’d have then been willing to spend $20M on Ryu? 
 

I think the answer is no. I don’t think they wanted to spend $20Mx4 on Ryu at any point ever. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, wopphil said:

Fletch, do you get the sense there are no decent arms available via trade? Sure looks like the Tigers, Rockies and Red Sox have little interest in trading Boyd, Gray and Price. It also doesn’t seem like many notable trades have happened this late in the off-season in recent years.

It looks that way. I think Boyd is the best bet still because he’s on a bad team. All the other teams who have starter options are trying to win in 2020, so they need to be blown away to give up a key piece of their rotation. 
 

They could perhaps get a guy like Samardzija if they can agree on the money. 
 

Otherwise, I suspect they’re planning to wait till June-July and see how things have changed. 

[Angel Oracle]

17 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Why not both?

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-sep-21-me-dodgers21-story.html

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

It is a red flag that the Dodgers apparently didn't want Ryu to return.

 

I keep thinking this, too.

[mulwin444]

On 1/24/2020 at 1:16 PM, RBM said:

I thought so also when we traded for him but I looked into it in more detail and noticed some changes he made in the 2nd half last year.

He led MLB with 41 HR's in 2018. In 2019 he gave up 29 HR's but only 9 in the second half.

I certainly think that this is Eppler's thought process.  There are not many starting pitchers that are under 28, have two years of control, have averaged close to 170 innings over the past 3 seasons, and has some upside that won't cost someone like Marsh or Canning.  Eppler saw an opportunity and snag him for some speculative Rondons.

[Claude]

37 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Every team has a budget. Every team also puts a certain value on certain players. All of it mixes together. 
 

So are suggesting that if the Angels had gotten Donaldson for $24M instead of Rendon for $35M that they’d have then been willing to spend $20M on Ryu? 
 

I think the answer is no. I don’t think they wanted to spend $20Mx4 on Ryu at any point ever. 

Remember that you’re talking about everything that had transpired this offseason. They traded for Bundy. They missed out on Cole. Had they missed out on Rendon you can bet that Ryu would’ve been seriously considered. They signed Rendon and then quickly downshifted their pitching budget to Teheran. Ryu was signed after that. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

26 minutes ago, RendZone said:

Remember that you’re talking about everything that had transpired this offseason. They traded for Bundy. They missed out on Cole. Had they missed out on Rendon you can bet that Ryu would’ve been seriously considered. They signed Rendon and then quickly downshifted their pitching budget to Teheran. Ryu was signed after that. 

Whatever you say. 

[Taylor]

Claude knows more about the inner workings of the Angels than Jeff Fletcher does.

[mulwin444]

3 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Claude knows more about the inner workings of the Angels than Jeff Fletcher does.

[Pancake Bear]

5 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

l think it's quite possible we'll regret not including Marsh in a trade for Kluber.

I’ll take the opposite bet. Unless we move Marsh for Boyd, we’ll be happy we didn’t trade him plus more for Kluber.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 hour ago, Pancake Bear said:

I’ll take the opposite bet. Unless we move Marsh for Boyd, we’ll be happy we didn’t trade him plus more for Kluber.

lf we miss the playoffs again no Angel fan will be happy.