Bumgarner, Ryu & Bundy or Cole/Strasburg & Bundy?

[Chuck]

So if we missed out on two of the top starters, would you be disappointed if the Angels signed both Bumgarner and Ryu to trio up with Ohtani atop the rotation? 

I mean, we could probably sign Bumgarner, Ryu & Teheran for the same price of Gerrit Cole or even Stephen Strasburg.

Thoughts?

[Don]

I think Ryu is gonna be a pretty good value wherever he goes. Dude isn't flashy, but he misses the big part of the bat, and does so very consistently. I know there have been some injuries in the past, but I feel like he gets you near ace-level results for a significantly lower price.

[Pancake Bear]

Don’t want Bumgarner; Ryu is a huge injury risk. Cole, easily. 

[kevinb]

Cole, Bumgarner/Ryu just say no to Strasburg.

[Blarg]

I'm not excited about a 7 year contract for a pitcher so a pair of 2nd tiers over one enormous contract is more appealing.

[Stradling]

If we can’t get Cole then go with Strasburg.  If you can’t get Strasburg then go after Ryu and Keuchel and trade for the best arm you can get with years of control for Marsh.  Or go Ryu, Darvish, Contreras and have the Cubs pick up some money.  

[Glen]

Insert comment about not resigning Nolan Ryan here.

[mmc]

Quality > Quantity

[Docwaukee]

4 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I'm not excited about a 7 year contract for a pitcher so a pair of 2nd tiers over one enormous contract is more appealing.

who would you consider 2nd tier that's still on the board at this point?

[Don]

What does Ryu get on the FA market? Like 3/$54m?

[Docwaukee]

4 minutes ago, Don said:

What does Ryu get on the FA market? Like 3/$54m?

my guess is closer to 3/70 based on what the current market has been doing.  

[Claude]

I would’ve signed Ryu first. He’s pretty solid and shouldn’t have been on anyone’s back page. 

[Chuck]

16 minutes ago, mymerlincat said:

Quality > Quantity

But Bumgarner and Ryu are quality and much better than what we can throw out there right now and pairing them with Ohtani who is a clear #1 type starter, you got yourself a nice rotation. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Chuckster70 said:

But Bumgarner and Ryu are quality and much better than what we can throw out there right now and pairing them with Ohtani who is a clear #1 type starter, you got yourself a nice rotation. 

Do you think Arte is ready to add $45 million a year to the payroll?  

[mmc]

1 minute ago, Chuckster70 said:

But Bumgarner and Ryu are quality and much better than what we can throw out there right now and pairing them with Ohtani who is a clear #1 type starter, you got yourself a nice rotation. 

Maybe, but I'm of the belief that you cannot win without a true ace, and this is our best opportunity to get one, and might be our only one without having to give up massive prospect capital for quite awhile.  I don't think Bumgarner and Ryu are at that level.

[Claude]

2 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

But Bumgarner and Ryu are quality and much better than what we can throw out there right now and pairing them with Ohtani who is a clear #1 type starter, you got yourself a nice rotation. 

This ^^^^^
 

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

But Bumgarner and Ryu are quality and much better than what we can throw out there right now and pairing them with Ohtani who is a clear #1 type starter, you got yourself a nice rotation. 

Are we sure about? He was good, not great, his first year and is coming off of TJ surgery. I think he's a wild card right now. 

[Hubs]

Bumgarner really should be third behind Cole and Strasburg. If they have a chance to get both those guys to add to Ohtani, Heaney, Bundt, and Canning. I’d be elated.

[GrittyVeterans]

 

6 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

But Bumgarner and Ryu are quality and much better than what we can throw out there right now and pairing them with Ohtani who is a clear #1 type starter, you got yourself a nice rotation. 

Ohtani is not a clear #1 starter right now. He won't be until he shows he can pitch 160+ innings with the results you need to be on that level. Right now I'll call him a risky #2-3 starter

I still think we'll get Cole and that will be about it

[Claude]

5 minutes ago, mymerlincat said:

Maybe, but I'm of the belief that you cannot win without a true ace, and this is our best opportunity to get one, and might be our only one without having to give up massive prospect capital for quite awhile.  I don't think Bumgarner and Ryu are at that level.

Did we have a true Ace in 2002? I think three no 2’s is pretty solid. Bumgarner, Ryu, Ohtani, and a no 3 in Heaney followed by the depth of a bunch of 4’s or 5’s is better than anything we’ve had in years. 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Calzone 2

[Chuck]

Just now, mymerlincat said:

Maybe, but I'm of the belief that you cannot win without a true ace, and this is our best opportunity to get one, and might be our only one without having to give up massive prospect capital for quite awhile.  I don't think Bumgarner and Ryu are at that level.

The 2002 Angels won without a true ace. I'd argue that Bumgarner and Ryu are much better than Jarrod Washburn too. 

The 1987 Twins didn't have a true #1 type starter as their top two guys were innings eaters Bert Blyleven and Frank Viola. There are other clubs too that won the big dance without a Stephen Strasburg or Gerrit Cole type.

 

[popo85]

Heck Mad bum and Ryu would be better then whatever we had last 3 years

[Chuck]

2 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

 

Ohtani is not a clear #1 starter right now. He won't be until he shows he can pitch 160+ innings with the results you need to be on that level. Right now I'll call him a risky #2-3 starter

Ohtani has #1 ace type stuff, that's what I meant. 

Every pitcher you sign is a risk, and Ohtani is no different, but he has the type of star power that Cole and Strasburg have to take the ball in game 1 and game 7 of a World Series. 

That to me is the definition of a #1. 

[Justin]

18 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

I would’ve signed Ryu first. He’s pretty solid and shouldn’t have been on anyone’s back page. 

He'll be 33 when the season starts, doesn't stay in shape, and put up his best season in his contract year. All of that worries me. 

[mmc]

2 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

Did we have a true Ace in 2002? I think three no 2’s is pretty solid. Bumgarner, Ryu, Ohtani, and a no 3 in Heaney followed by the depth of a bunch of 4’s or 5’s is better than anything we’ve had in years. 

 

1 minute ago, Chuckster70 said:

The 2002 Angels won without a true ace. I'd argue that Bumgarner and Ryu are much better than Jarrod Washburn too. 

The 1987 Twins didn't have a true #1 type starter as their top two guys were innings eaters Bert Blyleven and Frank Viola. There are other clubs too that won the big dance without a Stephen Strasburg or Gerrit Cole type.

 

I'm not sure it's possible in today's environment.  If you look at the teams who have been in the World Series lately, 2019: Astros (Cole, Verlander, Greinke) vs Nationals (Scherzer, Strasburg), 2018: Dodgers (Kershaw) vs Red Sox (Sale), 2017: Dodgers (Kershaw, Darvish) vs Astros (Verlander), 2016: Indians (Kluber) vs Cubs (Lester), 2015: Mets (deGrom) vs Royals (Cueto).  We need someone of that caliber of that caliber.