The Angels rotation

[Chuck]

24 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I’m not a fan of signing Keuchel, but if they were to do it, I would be OK with giving him a 1 year deal and paying him more.  Why not give him QO money and 1 year ? If we suck he’s another guy we can flip easily on a 1 year deal. 

I like the idea of signing him to a one-year deal, even if it's over 20 million. We need a guy we can lean on in the #1 spot and like you said, if we suck we can flip for him for a good prospect at the deadline that will probably be much better than the guy we lost in the draft pick. 

[Stradling]

There’s no real reason to sign him to a one year deal.  I’m not sure there was a single free agent I would have given a one year deal that cost the team a pick.  If you sign him give him three years.  If you’re willing to over pay him for one, give him three years and $50 million and pay him $22 million in year one and $14 million in years two and three.  

[GA16]

33 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

He possibly had a second MRI? OD? What is that, the pitchers version of ED? He can't get his arm up?

OD= Opening Day.

[nando714]

 

Until he signs with the Angels 

[jsnpritchett]

34 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

He possibly had a second MRI? OD? What is that, the pitchers version of ED? He can't get his arm up?

Opening Day.

But, yeah, the "possibly had" comment is just weird...In other words, he had another MRI.  Just come out and admit it.

[WeatherWonk]

34 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

He possibly had a second MRI? OD? What is that, the pitchers version of ED? He can't get his arm up?

LOL!  I had the same question! WTF is OD??

Whatever it is, the answer won't be as funny as yours!

[WeatherWonk]

8 minutes ago, Stradling said:

There’s no real reason to sign him to a one year deal.  I’m not sure there was a single free agent I would have given a one year deal that cost the team a pick.  If you sign him give him three years.  If you’re willing to over pay him for one, give him three years and $50 million and pay him $22 million in year one and $14 million in years two and three.  

Fack that. I'd rather give up a #1 pick even for one year and minimize the risk of going three years with a guy that old who has been experiencing a decline. Mid-round, #1 picks dont pan out that often.

It's a tread-water year. Let's roll with the Young Turks. Pena, Barria, Canning, Suarez plus the soldiers still standing.

[UndertheHalo]

17 minutes ago, Stradling said:

There’s no real reason to sign him to a one year deal.  I’m not sure there was a single free agent I would have given a one year deal that cost the team a pick.  If you sign him give him three years.  If you’re willing to over pay him for one, give him three years and $50 million and pay him $22 million in year one and $14 million in years two and three.  

I don’t know man.  There’s a reason no one has committed to him yet.  The arrow is solidly pointing down with this guy.  Multi year contract means less return in a possible deadline trade or the Angels carrying some of the money.  We’re giving up the pick either way.  I don’t think it makes sense to give him a riskier deal just because.  I suspect teams are tying to low ball him now.  They can probably just give him 17-20 million and be done with it. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

It doesn’t matter anyway. I doubt they’ll spend 8 million for him.  Let alone what we’re talking about.  The Angels are probably completely done spending money for now. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[DMVol]

9 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

The Angels are probably completely done spending money for now. 

[Stradling]

So you all would give up a 2nd round pick for Dallas Keuchel for one year on this team the way it is currently constructed?  No f’ing way.  He isn’t a guy that one day is going to be absolute shit.  

[Second Base]

6 hours ago, Hubs said:

I know you love the prospects, I get it, but I just don't have faith that more than 1 in 2 will be solid players.

Cozart is not going to go anywhere in 2019, unless he is playing well and they are 5 games back of the WC2 team, as you stated. In which case he makes sense to be traded. Doesn't mean he's going to start, but they will usually not cut players under Moreno until they are in the final year of their deal. Hamilton is the exception, and he had off the field issues. Guys who got cut for performance, only get cut in the last year of the deal. (Abreu, Valbuena - RIP, etc.).

Rengifo looks ok, so far, he's not as close as people think. I think he may be a September call-up.

I do agree that Ward is going to surprise. Thaiss also looked good this spring, and is likely the primary 1B in 2020. But Bour is going to get the majority of the starts.

Walsh, I think actually has a shot to start the season with the team.

Hermosillo isn't going to make the team, and I doubt he ever makes an impact for the Angels.

Agree that their #1 off-season FA target is Cole.

 

 

 

 

If these guys weren't already in AAA, then I think what you're saying is probably true.

- Rengifo is going to be the sort of 2B that hits .280 with 20 SB, .340 OBP and solid defense. That's not an all-star or anything, but it's a rock solid regular. 

- Thaiss I envision being about as good as Hosmer offensively, though not a gold glove 1B. If he gets full playing time, he'd be average-ish overall at the position, but I really feel like Albert will retire after this year, and Marsh will breakout in AA. I think going into next year, Upton is going to begin logging some starts at first base, designated hitter (when Shohei isn't) and serve as the 4th OF. This will probably only leave 300 PA available for a 1B, and those will ultimately be between Thaiss and Walsh. I actually think this end s up going to Walsh. He isn't as good of a hitter as Thaiss, but he offers slightly more power, doubles as a situational lefty in the pen and can even log time in the corner outfield if necessary. That versatility opens up another roster spot for someone speedy to come off the bench and steal a base, or an extra reliever. So whatever Thaiss' outcome, I'm not sure it comes with the Angels long term.

- Ward, I have little confidence if any for him to be someone that hits for average or plays gold glove defense. But he should reach base at an ok clip and hit 25 HR's a year. For me, I think the path to playing time long term will be a battle between Ward and Jam Jones. If Jones reaches his potential, he'll be the starting 2B, hands down. He'd hit for average, get on base and be a 20/20 player every year and I think that would force Rengifo over to third base. So I'm not sure who will be the long term piece between Ward and Jones,  but I'm confident on the will be.

- Fletcher will be exactly what he is right now. A better than average utility player. One good enough to start whenever. 

- Jo Adell will be an all-star caliber starting OF that hits 30 HR and 20 SB a year. 

- Brandon Marsh will be a borderline all-star caliber starting OF. 

I might be a homer,  but that's the way I see it. 

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

So you all would give up a 2nd round pick for Dallas Keuchel for one year on this team the way it is currently constructed?  No f’ing way.  He isn’t a guy that one day is going to be absolute shit.  

For me.  I’d rather just not do anything.  But I wouldn’t be upset about a 1 year deal.  I don’t really care to insert Keuchel into the Angels machinations at all beyond this season.  And I think they can probably trade him if they aren’t going anywhere.  For me the low risk and the trade potential is worth more then the 2nd round pick. 

[DMVol]

It doesn’t matter because we’re probably not signing anybody....that said, if Eppler does surprise us, I’d go 2 years.....Not crazy about 3 years at his age....

[m0nkey]

Goo Gonzalez is terrible to watch. Would not want. 

[Broad Street]

Just go get Kuechel and Gonzalez at this point. Eppler talks a big game about wanting players that don't have a long injury history and then goes out and signs Harvey and Cahill, and holds on to Heaney and Skaggs (and Tropeano). Eppler as a drafter seems to be pretty good. Eppler as a free agent signer appears to be terrible.

[CanadianHalo]

11 minutes ago, Kody Mac said:

Just go get Kuechel and Gonzalez at this point. Eppler talks a big game about wanting players that don't have a long injury history and then goes out and signs Harvey and Cahill, and holds on to Heaney and Skaggs (and Tropeano). Eppler as a drafter seems to be pretty good. Eppler as a free agent signer appears to be terrible.

So you want him to sign Keuchel and forfeit a 1st round draft pick?

Yep that makes sense...

We could sign Keuchel and Gio and this team still wouldn’t sniff the post season. 

[nando714]

1 hour ago, m0nkey said:

Goo Gonzalez is terrible to watch. Would not want. 

Yeah let’s not sign a vet who can eat innings and who is rarely injured bc most of our young starters will be on a innings limit this season 

[Broad Street]

5 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

So you want him to sign Keuchel and forfeit a 1st round draft pick?

Yep that makes sense...

We could sign Keuchel and Gio and this team still wouldn’t sniff the post season. 

Keuchel is better than that draft pick. You can plan for the future all you want, but it may never pan out. Sometimes you have to go out and buy some solid pitching and deal with the consequences.

[CanadianHalo]

1 minute ago, Kody Mac said:

Keuchel is better than that draft pick. You can plan for the future all you want, but it may never pan out. Sometimes you have to go out and buy some solid pitching and deal with the consequences.

This team isn’t one pitcher away from competing though. Especially one that costs a draft pick and most likely 20 million a year. 

Outside of Adell there’s not a ton to get excited about for the future either. This roster is ugly with no real solution at many positions in sight. 

Signing Keuchel just seems pointless at this point. It would be a waste of 60 mill and we might as well just keep the pick. 

[m0nkey]

24 minutes ago, nando714 said:

Yeah let’s not sign a vet who can eat innings and who is rarely injured bc most of our young starters will be on a innings limit this season 

Mexican CJ Wilson

[GrittyVeterans]

It doesn't matter what you guys want them to do. The money is spent already, and they basically said so themselves. I cautioned people against celebrating a Matt Harvey signing for this very reason. I may very well be wrong still, but I feel more and more uncomfortable about the injury history of our starters with each passing day. They could have spent that money on someone more reliable and to me would have been better off than going for the drastic boom/bust guy in addition to already having Skaggs and Heaney. And seriously Cahil as the other signing is still a WTF move for me. Guy hasn't thrown more than 110 innings in 5 seasons. I struggle to see how that is any sort of stabilizing presence to the rotation

Skaggs is literally one injury away from being talked about as another Richards: A guy we all think has great potential but just will never stay healthy enough to become the pitcher we all think he should be.

[Jeff Fletcher]

9 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

"If, if, if, if. . you'll be OK."

That is a lot of ifs and truthfully I want to be better than OK.

Everything in sports is an “if.” We don’t know what’s going to happen. That’s how it works. 

My definition of “ok” is “has a chance to make the playoffs.”

And if by “better than OK” you mean “projected for 95+ wins” then, no, the Angels aren’t that. 

As I’ve said before no team becomes that level of elite by making trades or signing free agents. You have to have a core of home grown players that gets you most of the way there, and then you add from outside the org to push it over the top. 

For the Angels to get there this winter they’d probably have needed to sign Machado and Corbin and Kimbrel and trade for Realmuto. Do the math on that. 

[Docwaukee]

17 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Everything in sports is an “if.” We don’t know what’s going to happen. That’s how it works. 

My definition of “ok” is “has a chance to make the playoffs.”

And if by “better than OK” you mean “projected for 95+ wins” then, no, the Angels aren’t that. 

As I’ve said before no team becomes that level of elite by making trades or signing free agents. You have to have a core of home grown players that gets you most of the way there, and then you add from outside the org to push it over the top. 

For the Angels to get there this winter they’d probably have needed to sign Machado and Corbin and Kimbrel and trade for Realmuto. Do the math on that. 

there is no math on that.  It's also the reason why signing a guy like Keuchel doesn't make sense to me.  Sure he makes us a little better, but a little better likely doesn't change our fate and it obligates us to high dollars for years and age that this team doesn't need.  

and I was worried about the rotation from the word go and I'm still worried.  I actually think that there's talent but my biggest worry was health.  

So I had more optimism a couple weeks ago.  

[Glen]

Our starting rotation has more holes in it than Charlie Brown's Halloween costume.