The Angels rotation

[Dtwncbad]

8 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Everything in sports is an “if.” We don’t know what’s going to happen. That’s how it works. 

My definition of “ok” is “has a chance to make the playoffs.”

And if by “better than OK” you mean “projected for 95+ wins” then, no, the Angels aren’t that. 

As I’ve said before no team becomes that level of elite by making trades or signing free agents. You have to have a core of home grown players that gets you most of the way there, and then you add from outside the org to push it over the top. 

For the Angels to get there this winter they’d probably have needed to sign Machado and Corbin and Kimbrel and trade for Realmuto. Do the math on that. 

So to be clear you say the Angels can make the playoffs with the roster they have but to win 95 games they would have had to acquire Machado and Corbin and Kimbrel and Realmuto.

 

[TroutField]

11 hours ago, CanadianHalo said:

This team isn’t one pitcher away from competing though. Especially one that costs a draft pick and most likely 20 million a year. 

Outside of Adell there’s not a ton to get excited about for the future either. This roster is ugly with no real solution at many positions in sight. 

Signing Keuchel just seems pointless at this point. It would be a waste of 60 mill and we might as well just keep the pick. 

You should check out the minor league thread if you think Adell is the only prospect to be excited about... Let’s just ignore Marsh, Thaiss, Jones, Etc... they have literally been the only fun part of spring training so far outside of Trout 

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

So to be clear you say the Angels can make the playoffs with the roster they have but to win 95 games they would have had to acquire Machado and Corbin and Kimbrel and Realmuto.

 

That’s not what I’m saying. 

They could win 95 right now. In order to be expected to win 95 without worrying, which is what you seem to be hoping for, they need to be a lot better. 

The point is all teams have if’s. Every team probably has a range of outcomes maybe 12-14 games wide so they worry about things that can affect whether you get to the top or bottom of that. If you don’t want to worry, you need that range to be something like 93-107, which is a pretty loaded team. 

[UndertheHalo]

59 minutes ago, TroutField said:

You should check out the minor league thread if you think Adell is the only prospect to be excited about... Let’s just ignore Marsh, Thaiss, Jones, Etc... they have literally been the only fun part of spring training so far outside of Trout 

Jones wasn’t fun tbh.  He did not look great in major league camp.  Unless you want to talk about how he’s more confident or whatever fielding 2nd.  

[floplag]

10 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Everything in sports is an “if.” We don’t know what’s going to happen. That’s how it works. 

My definition of “ok” is “has a chance to make the playoffs.”

And if by “better than OK” you mean “projected for 95+ wins” then, no, the Angels aren’t that. 

As I’ve said before no team becomes that level of elite by making trades or signing free agents. You have to have a core of home grown players that gets you most of the way there, and then you add from outside the org to push it over the top. 

For the Angels to get there this winter they’d probably have needed to sign Machado and Corbin and Kimbrel and trade for Realmuto. Do the math on that. 

This is the one part of this i dont agree with.  I think there was a path to 90+ being possible without that, but thats just my opinion. 
Even if they had done everything i hoped that didnt involve any of those names that would have depended on the pitching being healthy and producing which is at this point the biggest if of them all. 

[CanadianHalo]

1 hour ago, TroutField said:

You should check out the minor league thread if you think Adell is the only prospect to be excited about... Let’s just ignore Marsh, Thaiss, Jones, Etc... they have literally been the only fun part of spring training so far outside of Trout 

Are we talking about the same Jones that couldn’t make contact if you had put the ball on a tee for him this spring?

Thiass got off to a hot start but cooled off after that. 

Marsh will have to prove he can stay healthy and put up better number in the minors before we start planning a future around him. Marsh is quite the presence at the plate, I like to believe he can put it all together but I’m not counting my chickens before they hatch with him. 

Eppler will need to look outside of the organization to fill the holes at 2nd and 3rd if they want to compete the next few years 

[Tank]

21 hours ago, Lou said:

I have as much confidence in Trop as I do in El Camino College beating Alabama in football 

congrats in advance to tropeano winning his first cy young!

[Blarg]

3 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

Are we talking about the same Jones that couldn’t make contact if you had put the ball on a tee for him this spring?

A sample size of 18 plate appearances. That was less than 2 at bats per game he was in coming in cold off the bench. Solid argument, I guess, if you're a Canadian. 

[Lou]

13 hours ago, CanadianHalo said:

Outside of Adell there’s not a ton to get excited about for the future either. This roster is ugly with no real solution at many positions in sight. 

 

it's obvious you have no f'n idea what you're talking about 

[Angel Oracle]

13 hours ago, nando714 said:

Yeah let’s not sign a vet who can eat innings and who is rarely injured bc most of our young starters will be on a innings limit this season 

Problem is, he's another Nibs minus the health issues.    Innings will be there, and so will a high ERA and WHIP.   Remember that half of his starts were in a stadium even more pitching friendly than Anaheim.

[CanadianHalo]

26 minutes ago, Lou said:

it's obvious you have no f'n idea what you're talking about 

Blind optimism at its finest. 

Look I’m hoping for the best too but I’m not going to ignore the fact that guys like Jones looked completely lost at the plate this spring. Especially when it’s looking like the Angels are counting on him.

[Broad Street]

16 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Problem is, he's another Nibs minus the health issues.    Innings will be there, and so will a high ERA and WHIP.   Remember that half of his starts were in a stadium even more pitching friendly than Anaheim.

I know you're not talking about Kuechel right now.... Right?

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

Blind optimism at its finest. 

 

what's blind about it?  we have a good farm system that will pay dividends in the near future (1-3 years).  you're basing your assessment from a few spring at bats?  hence you have no clue.  

[CanadianHalo]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

what's blind about it?  we have a good farm system that will pay dividends in the near future (1-3 years).  you're basing your assessment from a few spring at bats?  hence you have no clue.  

I’m also taking into account Jam’s minor league year last year as well. There’s definitely cause for concern. 

However, I’m talking to a bunch of guys that actually think the Angels are going to compete this year so this discussion is pointless. 

[CanadianHalo]

8 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

you're basing your assessment from a few spring at bats?  hence you have no clue.  

I mean you did this exact thing with our rotation. 

[Docwaukee]

33 minutes ago, Lou said:

Outside of Adell there’s not a ton to get excited about for the future either. This roster is ugly with no real solution at many positions in sight. 

I strongly disagree with this statement

1 minute ago, CanadianHalo said:

I’m also taking into account Jam’s minor league year last year as well. There’s definitely cause for concern. 

However, I’m talking to a bunch of guys that actually think the Angels are going to compete this year so this discussion is pointless. 

you haven't seen him outside of spring.  his numbers were cause for concern but are explainable.  If he puts up a similar year then I agree we might be seeing a future fringe major leaguer.  But he's far from the only guy in our farm system to get excited about.  

and thinking we might compete this year and being optimistic of the future based on our farm are two different things.  

we will compete this year if the top 4 in our rotation make about 30 starts each.  I am not overly optimistic about that which is why I started this thread.  

[jgimondo]

14 hours ago, Kody Mac said:

Keuchel is better than that draft pick. You can plan for the future all you want, but it may never pan out. Sometimes you have to go out and buy some solid pitching and deal with the consequences.

We will not lose the pick if we sign him after the draft!!!!!

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, CanadianHalo said:

I mean you did this exact thing with our rotation. 

I am basing my concern for the rotation on the fact that they are already battling injury and we haven't even broken camp.  

[VariousCrap]

10 hours ago, Glen said:

Our starting rotation has more holes in it than Charlie Brown's Halloween costume.

How did this get ignored?  Made me laugh.

Edited March 14, 2019 by VariousCrap

[Dtwncbad]

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

That’s not what I’m saying. 

They could win 95 right now. In order to be expected to win 95 without worrying, which is what you seem to be hoping for, they need to be a lot better. 

The point is all teams have if’s. Every team probably has a range of outcomes maybe 12-14 games wide so they worry about things that can affect whether you get to the top or bottom of that. If you don’t want to worry, you need that range to be something like 93-107, which is a pretty loaded team. 

Yes, some have a couple ifs and some have like 15.  I am not going to apologize for being disappointed that the Angels have 3 or 4 times as many ifs as I am comfortable with.

There isn't a single arm in the rotation that isn't a major risk.

Sorry for telling the truth, but that's lame.

I never advocated to have no worry.  I am just willing to say out loud when there is way too much worry.

If you plan to do well at the race track, you don't plan on winning the pick six.

Sure all these starters could be fine.  Could be.  But what is the smart bet? The smart bet is three of them have problems and suddenly Nick Tropeano is your horse.

I apologize again for living in reality.

[Lou]

3 hours ago, CanadianHalo said:

I’m also taking into account Jam’s minor league year last year as well. There’s definitely cause for concern. 

However, I’m talking to a bunch of guys that actually think the Angels are going to compete this year so this discussion is pointless. 

we have more prospects than just Jones. but keep bashing everything about the organization, it's who you are. 

[Lou]

3 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I strongly disagree with this statement

you haven't seen him outside of spring.  his numbers were cause for concern but are explainable.  If he puts up a similar year then I agree we might be seeing a future fringe major leaguer.  But he's far from the only guy in our farm system to get excited about.  

and thinking we might compete this year and being optimistic of the future based on our farm are two different things.  

we will compete this year if the top 4 in our rotation make about 30 starts each.  I am not overly optimistic about that which is why I started this thread.  

I have no idea how the post you quoted was assigned to me, but I didn't say it. 

 

 

[Docwaukee]

7 minutes ago, Lou said:

I have no idea how the post you quoted was assigned to me, but I didn't say it. 

 

 

i know.  you quoted it so when I quoted it, it made it seem like you wrote it.  but you didn't. 

[Angel Oracle]

4 hours ago, Kody Mac said:

I know you're not talking about Kuechel right now.... Right?

Correct, about Gonzalez

[GrittyVeterans]

The Angels farm system isn't the problem. The problem is it's debatable how much it will contribute to major league success over the next 2 years.  Particularly on the pitching side of things I just don't see it. 

I know it's probably the right path to just wait it out, but man, I want to contend the next 2 years with the best player, best defensive SS, Ohtani, Upton, etc.