Farm System Trade Chips and Untouchables

[halos.central]

Say the Angels try to make some trades in the offseason, who in the farm would you guys consider trade chips and who would you consider untouchable? 

[Stradling]

Untouchable- Adell

Trade only for a long term young stud- Canning

Trade Chips- everyone else

 

That being said I’d like to see our two most recent draft picks and Maitan here for another year just to see if they blow up into big time prospects, in other words don’t sell low.  

[Blarg]

It would depend on what the Angels spend money on in the off-season. If they block Adell in the outfield (doubtful) then he's on the block. But I seriously believe he is their cost controlled future right fielder and possibly center fielder if they can't work an extension out with Trout.

Cost controlled pitching is taking Canning off the market. Probably a few of the other pitchers as well since the core of pitchers on the roster now are hitting higher arbitration numbers. More likely to trade a starter on the 25 man than one of the young studs from the minors.

So that leaves a bunch of middle infielders like Rengifo and Jones and spare outfield parts like Marsh. But it really depends on what happens in free agency. 

[mulwin444]

No one is untouchable for a young-ish and controllable impact Ace or Ace-light SP, 3B, or RF.

That said, guys like Adell, Canning, Rengifo, Suarez, etc shouldn't be given away either.

[JuanjoRios]

The only untouchable for me is Jo Adell. Then, unless is a one in a lifetime opportunity you don't touch young promising pitchers like Canning, Suárez, Soriano or Sandoval (that is our biggest area of need due to all the injuries). 

Besides from that, if we are into trading for good and controllable players, Marsh, Jones and especially Rengifo are good trade chips who surely will be missed but could bring something good to the Angels.

[Troll Daddy]

59 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

No one is untouchable for a young-ish and controllable impact Ace or Ace-light SP, 3B, or RF.

That said, guys like Adell, Canning, Rengifo, Suarez, etc shouldn't be given away either.

[floplag]

4 hours ago, Stradling said:

Untouchable- Adell

Trade only for a long term young stud- Canning

Trade Chips- everyone else

 

That being said I’d like to see our two most recent draft picks and Maitan here for another year just to see if they blow up into big time prospects, in other words don’t sell low.  

This is pretty much spot on, though i dont count anyone as wholly untouchable, hes as close as it gets. 
For example Mia comes to us with a silly deal for Realmuto that involved Adell... you kinda have to entertain that, but it would need to be something like that to even bring him into the conversation.

[Angel Oracle]

42 minutes ago, floplag said:

This is pretty much spot on, though i dont count anyone as wholly untouchable, hes as close as it gets. 
For example Mia comes to us with a silly deal for Realmuto that involved Adell... you kinda have to entertain that, but it would need to be something like that to even bring him into the conversation.

And with this franchise's @#$&YUU*$^UI luck, Realmuto would regress to a .700 OPS.    What is it with this @#$^#^# stadium screwing with so many hitters after they are acquired???????

[floplag]

12 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

And with this franchise's @#$&YUU*$^UI luck, Realmuto would regress to a .700 OPS.    What is it with this @#$^#^# stadium screwing with so many hitters after they are acquired???????

its the marine layer silly goose   

[Second Base]

Not Trading

Jo Adell - We'll have an opening in the outfield soon enough, he has superstar potential and it's too early to consider trading the best prospect we've had since Trout (unless you think Ohtani was a prospect). 

Griffin Canning - Because he's even better than this board is giving him credit for, which is really difficult because we're a bunch of Angel homers.  That's how electric he is. 

Kevin Maitan - Because he hasn't had time to develop yet, and it's too early to get any sort of reliable read on him.  Give him two more years then you'll have a better idea. 

Brandon Marsh - Simply put, we need more time before we know who he actually is. 

Jordyn Adams - Too early. 

Jeremiah Jackson - Too early. 

D'Shawn Knowles - Too early. 

Trent Deveaux - Too early. 

Jerryell Rivera - Too early. 

Jose Soriano - Too early. 

Open to trade, but only if the return is just what we need. 

Matt Thaiss, Jose Suarez, Luis Rengifo, Michael Hermosillo, Livan Soto, Patrick Sandoval

Assets that I fell can and should be traded in an attempt to fill the holes in the roster.

Jahmai Jones - The hit tool isn't there, and the Angels have a lot of second base options.  The HR/SB and plate discipline will almost certainly entice other teams. 

Chris Rodriguez - Soriano has better upside and is healthier.  If he proves healthy, and another team is offering something of value, trade him. 

Luis Pena - Definitely some future reliever value there.  But given Eppler's ability to find relievers in unexpected places, I'd trade Pena. 

John Swanda - Definitely talented, no doubt about that.  But playing for the same organization that lost Nick Adenhart, and being pulled over and arrested for having a fake ID and operated his vehicle while intoxicated shortly after being drafted is a reflection of a person of very poor character.  I'm not saying he doesn't deserve another chance, but I'd say let him pursue his dream elsewhere. 

Conclusion

As you may notice, there guys I'm willing to trade, it isn't exactly the cream of the crop.  That's because I feel that with this team's financial freedom, the upcoming free agent class, and our team needs, the Angels don't need to be looking for a franchise forming blockbuster of a trade.  They should be looking for good, consistent players at some key spots like third base, catcher and right field.  If it can't be traded for using lower prospects, then no problem, spend the money in free agency. 

[fanfromday1]

25 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

 What is it with this @#$^#^# stadium screwing with so many hitters after they are acquired???????

Could be the previous land owners.    

[kevinb]

No one is untouchable for the right asset. 

[kevinb]

32 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

Not Trading

Jo Adell - We'll have an opening in the outfield soon enough, he has superstar potential and it's too early to consider trading the best prospect we've had since Trout (unless you think Ohtani was a prospect). 

Griffin Canning - Because he's even better than this board is giving him credit for, which is really difficult because we're a bunch of Angel homers.  That's how electric he is. 

Kevin Maitan - Because he hasn't had time to develop yet, and it's too early to get any sort of reliable read on him.  Give him two more years then you'll have a better idea. 

Brandon Marsh - Simply put, we need more time before we know who he actually is. 

Jordyn Adams - Too early. 

Jeremiah Jackson - Too early. 

D'Shawn Knowles - Too early. 

Trent Deveaux - Too early. 

Jerryell Rivera - Too early. 

Jose Soriano - Too early. 

Open to trade, but only if the return is just what we need. 

Matt Thaiss, Jose Suarez, Luis Rengifo, Michael Hermosillo, Livan Soto, Patrick Sandoval

Assets that I fell can and should be traded in an attempt to fill the holes in the roster.

Jahmai Jones - The hit tool isn't there, and the Angels have a lot of second base options.  The HR/SB and plate discipline will almost certainly entice other teams. 

Chris Rodriguez - Soriano has better upside and is healthier.  If he proves healthy, and another team is offering something of value, trade him. 

Luis Pena - Definitely some future reliever value there.  But given Eppler's ability to find relievers in unexpected places, I'd trade Pena. 

John Swanda - Definitely talented, no doubt about that.  But playing for the same organization that lost Nick Adenhart, and being pulled over and arrested for having a fake ID and operated his vehicle while intoxicated shortly after being drafted is a reflection of a person of very poor character.  I'm not saying he doesn't deserve another chance, but I'd say let him pursue his dream elsewhere. 

Conclusion

As you may notice, there guys I'm willing to trade, it isn't exactly the cream of the crop.  That's because I feel that with this team's financial freedom, the upcoming free agent class, and our team needs, the Angels don't need to be looking for a franchise forming blockbuster of a trade.  They should be looking for good, consistent players at some key spots like third base, catcher and right field.  If it can't be traded for using lower prospects, then no problem, spend the money in free agency. 

So your telling me the Mets offered DeGrom and Wheeler for Canning you wouldn't trade Canning? 

[ScruffytheJanitor]

2 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

So your telling me the Mets offered DeGrom and Wheeler for Canning you wouldn't trade Canning? 

Hyperbole aside, I agree. Canning is someone it would take one hell of a deal to get, but it's not like I'd only trade him for a top-10 player.

[ScruffytheJanitor]

41 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

John Swanda - Definitely talented, no doubt about that.  But playing for the same organization that lost Nick Adenhart, and being pulled over and arrested for having a fake ID and operated his vehicle while intoxicated shortly after being drafted is a reflection of a person of very poor character.  I'm not saying he doesn't deserve another chance, but I'd say let him pursue his dream elsewhere. 

Yeesh.  That's certainly an awful way to start a career, but 1) Nick Adenhart has nothing to do with it; 2) Kid wasn't even 18 yet, if I recall. 

If every kid that did something stupid with alcohol before the age of 20 has "very poor character," then you must think a lot of otherwise good people to be pretty crappy. Again, this isn't ideal, but it's a different thing from, say, assaulting a woman (or a dude, for that matter).

[Pancake Bear]

2 hours ago, floplag said:

This is pretty much spot on, though i dont count anyone as wholly untouchable, hes as close as it gets. 
For example Mia comes to us with a silly deal for Realmuto that involved Adell... you kinda have to entertain that, but it would need to be something like that to even bring him into the conversation.

Yeah, I don't trade Adell for Realmuto. Not even for deGrom given his age. 

Canning maybe if the deal is right, but I can't figure what that would be - I mean, we need pitching badly, and I don't know who would trade a better pitcher for an unproven one in Canning, so I don't see a scenario in which we move our best pitching prospect. 

Beyond that, I'm no expert, but I feel like it just depends on what the deal is. I don't move guys just for kicks like Dipooto, but *if* there's a deal that makes sense, I'd be open to trading pretty much anyone else. 

[Second Base]

50 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

So your telling me the Mets offered DeGrom and Wheeler for Canning you wouldn't trade Canning? 

The Mets aren't going to do that.  So no.  And despite @ettin being all up on that jock, you still aren't operating using actual real world logic.

Now if the Mets approached the Angels about Canning, Adell and a few others for one of DeGrom, Wheeler or even Syndergaard, which seems like a much more likely scenario than yours, then I'd still have to say no, because I believe that Griffin Canning is going to be a very good pitcher that you can slot into the top half of a rotation. 

[Reveille1984]

Like others have said, I would trade anyone for the right price.  Of course you need some cost-controlled talent from the pipeline to complement guys with astronomical salaries like Trout, Upton, etc., but especially while we have the best player in baseball we need to surround him with talent in the next few years.  

Sure Adell might be a special MLB athlete one day.  But even if he becomes a consistent 4-5 WAR player, that development curve is still at least a couple years away at best.  And he still has some question marks with his swing and plate discipline.  If I could package him for an ace/everday player in their prime, I would do it in a heartbeat.

[kevinb]

1 hour ago, Scotty@AW said:

The Mets aren't going to do that.  So no.  And despite @ettin being all up on that jock, you still aren't operating using actual real world logic.

Now if the Mets approached the Angels about Canning, Adell and a few others for one of DeGrom, Wheeler or even Syndergaard, which seems like a much more likely scenario than yours, then I'd still have to say no, because I believe that Griffin Canning is going to be a very good pitcher that you can slot into the top half of a rotation. 

That's interesting. So you wouldn't trade someone who's proven it and is still a young bonafide ace in the MLB for someone who has not proven it in the bigs and who knows what he becomes. Straight up Canning for DeGrom you wouldn't do it?

[Angelsjunky]

No one is truly untouchable. If the Blue Jays offered Vlad Jr for our two best prospects, Adell and Canning, I'd pause but do it without losing too much sleep. That said, those two prospects are pretty close to untouchable, and I certainly wouldn't go looking to trade them.

Now the problem with the Angels farm as a whole, in terms of assessing trade chips, is that most prospects haven't reached what I call "peak trade value" - that is, when a prospect has developed enough to have a good sense of how good they'll be, and thus what their trade value is. Among our better prospects, I'd group them as follows, relative to "peak trade value:"

At or very close to peak trade value: Canning, Suarez, Ward, Hermosillo, Walsh, Rengifo, Adell, etc

Approaching peak trade value (within next year): Marsh, Jones, Thaiss, Kruger, P Sandoval, etc

Far from peak trade value (1-2+ years away): Maitan, Soto, C Rod, Soriano, Adams, Jackson, Knowles, Deveaux, A Ramirez, etc

The first group are those that you consider trading, but only if the price is right and only if you have depth. Someone like Suarez is a solid trade chip, because he projects as a solid #3-4 starter, which both has value to other teams and the Angels are relatively deep in. Or someone like Rengifo, because the Angels have Fletcher and Jones.

Of the second group, I'd wait until at least mid-2019 as these are guys that should solidify their value sometime in the next year or so. You don't trade Marsh or Jones when they both took important steps forward this year (develop plate discipline) but didn't really impress statistically. Both could really take a big step forward next year, and increase their trade value.

Of the last group, most of those guys don't have nearly the value they can and should have in another year or two once they've taken a step forward. On the other hand, if another org just falls in love with, say, Livan Soto and is willing to overpay for him, then you consider the trade as a player like Soto doesn't have a clear path to the majors, with plenty of guys ahead of him and/or with higher upside in middle infield.

So you also have to look at what position they play, and how deep the team is. This is why someone like Adell actually could be traded, if the Angels received the right offer. They have a lot of good outfield prospects, especially in the low minors. If they traded Adell, Brandon Marsh could be ready by 2021, and then you have all the guys in the low minors. But you only trade a prospect like Adell if you're getting either an elite prospect in return at a position of greater need (e.g. Vlad Jr), or you are getting young and cost-controlled major league talent (e.g. Realmuto).

 

[Dtwncbad]

For the right impact player I might part with Gus Polidor or Terry Evans.

[Second Base]

4 hours ago, Kevinb said:

That's interesting. So you wouldn't trade someone who's proven it and is still a young bonafide ace in the MLB for someone who has not proven it in the bigs and who knows what he becomes. Straight up Canning for DeGrom you wouldn't do it?

Name a single instance where a franchise traded a Cy Young winner or candidate (it looks like DeGrom will win it this year) with multiple years of service remaining on his very team friendly contract, in a one for one deal for a pitching prospect.

If you can do that, then I have no problem playing the "what if" game with you. 

[wopphil]

I only move Adell for a very good, cost controlled position player with at least 4 (preferably 5) years of club control. The centerpiece of an Andrelton Simmons type of trade. 

Most of the other guys I'd be willing to move for quality talent with 3 to 4 years of club control remaining.

[arch stanton]

I can’t see a reason to move any pitchers who could be ML ready for ‘19 and Adell is primed to be the next homegrown star. I think the plan is to stay the course on young talent and supplement as required 

[ettin]

7 hours ago, Scotty@AW said:

The Mets aren't going to do that.  So no.  And despite @ettin being all up on that jock, you still aren't operating using actual real world logic.

Now if the Mets approached the Angels about Canning, Adell and a few others for one of DeGrom, Wheeler or even Syndergaard, which seems like a much more likely scenario than yours, then I'd still have to say no, because I believe that Griffin Canning is going to be a very good pitcher that you can slot into the top half of a rotation. 

So when I originally read this on my phone I missed Wheeler included which actually doesn't make sense. However using Canning as the base of a deGrom trade is a start for the basis of a trade.

Scotty at no point was I on anyone's jock. Have a blessed day.