Deadweight Position Players

[GrittyVeterans]

Right now we have an inordinate amount of players that are producing nothing, some of them making significant cash. I'd love for some of these guys to turn it around, but the longer this goes on the less optimistic I am about it. Might be time to just DFA some people and try something else. League average OPS+ is 100

Luis Valbuena: 79 OPS+, 0 WAR (making 8.5 million)

Kole Calhoun: 10 OPS+, -0.8 WAR (making 8.5 million)

Albert Pujols: 87 OPS+, -0.2 WAR (making 27 million)

Ian Kinsler: 64 OPS+, 0.2 WAR (making 11 million)

Zack Cozart: 94 OPS+, 0.1 WAR (making 12.6 million)

Chris Young: 42 OPS+, -0.3 WAR (making 2 million)

Martin Maldonado: 84 OPS+, 0.2 WAR (making 3.9 million)

 

We have 13 position players on our roster. 7 of the 13 have provided basically nothing to the team and have been below average. Something has to change in the next month or so.

[eligrba]

The only thing changing in a month will be the temperature. The Angels have typically waited until the All Star break to make such decisions.  

[UndertheHalo]

Maldanado isn’t dead weight.  

Give Cozart some time.  It’s too early for fans to bail on that deal. 

Don’t worry about Kinsler, he’ll be gone soon enough if he doesn’t hit.  Young is a bench player and doesn’t matter enough for you to give a shit.  Valbuena will be gone after this year.  

Calhoun is a problem.  Albert is a huge problem. 

[101halo]

As much as this sucks, it's pretty refreshing to have a stars and scrubs roster rather than a star and scrubs roster we've usually had since the middle of Vlad's time here. 

[Warfarin]

As for Maldonado, an interesting thing has been observed:  he is not framing well at all this season.

http://www.statcorner.com/CatcherReport.php

He's been fairly below average in terms of framing, as you can see from the above.  So an interesting question is, if he appears to be declining defensively, then we should really ask ourselves if we want to re-sign him this offseason, or instead perhaps turn an eye to another free agent catcher, such as Grandal?

[Warfarin]

2 hours ago, GrittyVeterans said:

Right now we have an inordinate amount of players that are producing nothing, some of them making significant cash. I'd love for some of these guys to turn it around, but the longer this goes on the less optimistic I am about it. Might be time to just DFA some people and try something else. League average OPS+ is 100

Luis Valbuena: 79 OPS+, 0 WAR (making 8.5 million)

Kole Calhoun: 10 OPS+, -0.8 WAR (making 8.5 million)

Albert Pujols: 87 OPS+, -0.2 WAR (making 27 million)

Ian Kinsler: 64 OPS+, 0.2 WAR (making 11 million)

Zack Cozart: 94 OPS+, 0.1 WAR (making 12.6 million)

Chris Young: 42 OPS+, -0.3 WAR (making 2 million)

Martin Maldonado: 84 OPS+, 0.2 WAR (making 3.9 million)

 

We have 13 position players on our roster. 7 of the 13 have provided basically nothing to the team and have been below average. Something has to change in the next month or so.

On the bright side, 3 of those guys are likely gone after this season (Valbuena, Kinsler, Young).  Maldonado remains to be seen.  Cozart might still need some time to adjust to the AL, but at least he provides tremendous defensive versatility for us (2B/3B/SS).

Calhoun and Pujols, well, we have about 5 billion threads discussing them, so I won't rehash that here.

[Angel Oracle]

I am hoping that if this continues the whole year for Pujols, that he will hang them up after 2019 and that Scioscia will STOP batting him cleanup by a month from now.   

[greginpsca]

21 hours ago, Warfarin said:

As for Maldonado, an interesting thing has been observed:  he is not framing well at all this season.

http://www.statcorner.com/CatcherReport.php

He's been fairly below average in terms of framing, as you can see from the above.  So an interesting question is, if he appears to be declining defensively, then we should really ask ourselves if we want to re-sign him this offseason, or instead perhaps turn an eye to another free agent catcher, such as Grandal?

Pretty hard to frame pitches when the said pitchers bounce half of the pitches they throw.

[Warfarin]

Just now, greginpsca said:

Pretty hard to frame pitches when the said pitchers bounce half of the pitches they throw.

I am guessing that is taken into consideration

It does raise an interesting point though.  if Maldonado is showing signs of defensive regresssion, then perhaps we consider other options come free agency.  I have been on the Grandal bandwagon for awhile, because he carries a strong defensive reputation as well, but also provides some LH power and is a far superior offensive threat than Maldonado.  Furthermore, he can also serve as a backup 1B.

[Dick Enberg]

On 5/20/2018 at 10:38 AM, GrittyVeterans said:

Right now we have an inordinate amount of players that are producing nothing, some of them making significant cash. I'd love for some of these guys to turn it around, but the longer this goes on the less optimistic I am about it. Might be time to just DFA some people and try something else. League average OPS+ is 100

Luis Valbuena: 79 OPS+, 0 WAR (making 8.5 million)

Kole Calhoun: 10 OPS+, -0.8 WAR (making 8.5 million)

Albert Pujols: 87 OPS+, -0.2 WAR (making 27 million)

Ian Kinsler: 64 OPS+, 0.2 WAR (making 11 million)

Zack Cozart: 94 OPS+, 0.1 WAR (making 12.6 million)

Chris Young: 42 OPS+, -0.3 WAR (making 2 million)

Martin Maldonado: 84 OPS+, 0.2 WAR (making 3.9 million)

 

We have 13 position players on our roster. 7 of the 13 have provided basically nothing to the team and have been below average. Something has to change in the next month or so.

Hard to believe we are 5 games over 500 when you look at these names. 50% to 60% of our line up sucks on any given day. Some of these guys will eventually bring some value, but don't have a lot of confidence in Kinsler, Valbuena, Pujols or Young doing much of anything. 

[zenmaster]

I'll still take these guys any day over what we put out on the field in 2016 and 2017. 

[Stradling]

My opinion is we have two dead weight everyday players, Albert and Kinsler.   Kole may not be great but he’s not in decline, like the other two.  Kole will snap out of it, I hope.  

[DMVol]

On 5/20/2018 at 2:24 PM, UndertheHalo said:

Maldanado isn’t dead weight.  

Give Cozart some time.  It’s too early for fans to bail on that deal. 

Don’t worry about Kinsler, he’ll be gone soon enough if he doesn’t hit.  Young is a bench player and doesn’t matter enough for you to give a shit.  Valbuena will be gone after this year.  

Calhoun is a problem.  Albert is a huge problem. 

[bloodbrother]

The good news is that the majority of these names won't be on the roster next season. The bad news is they're on the roster this season while the team is trying to compete for a playoff spot. Shit

 

[greginpsca]

3 hours ago, Warfarin said:

I am guessing that is taken into consideration

It does raise an interesting point though.  if Maldonado is showing signs of defensive regresssion, then perhaps we consider other options come free agency.  I have been on the Grandal bandwagon for awhile, because he carries a strong defensive reputation as well, but also provides some LH power and is a far superior offensive threat than Maldonado.  Furthermore, he can also serve as a backup 1B.

Maldonado is as good as it gets defensively. He is a bargain for the pay. 

[floplag]

Not sure its fair to call anyone with a positive WAR dead weight considering that the stats ays that by definition they are equal to the average replacement player. 
Counting reserves is also a little silly as they are, well, reserves.   If they were positive WAR players they would likely be starters. 

I truly hate this dependence on WAR weve gotten used to in the baseball community, its not a perfect stat, far from it, and it devalues defense far too much in my view.  

Maldonado might be the thesis for this as he is ranked 40th in the league at catcher, there are not 39 guys i would take over him.   
consider the following comparison:
player 1:  152/288/333/621
player 2:  248/322/362/684
Player 1 is Russel Martin, player 2 is Maldonado, BOTH HAVE THE SAME WAR!!!!!
Maldonado is 10 times the defender Martin EVER was. 
Someone tell me how those stat lines equal the same value per WAR, please, cause i dont get it at all.  

 

[zenmaster]

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-players-vote-for-stats-they-value-most/c-274986480

I'd say the players have a good idea of what should be valued the most. No one voted for WAR. 

[HaloNArizona]

3 hours ago, SuperTroopers said:

My opinion is we have two dead weight everyday players, Albert and Kinsler.   Kole may not be great but he’s not in decline, like the other two.  Kole will snap out of it, I hope.  

We all like Kole...but he is on a huge decline:

OWar:

2014  -3.9

2015 - 2.4

2016 - 3.1

2017 - 1.9

2018 - (-1.5)

 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, HaloNArizona said:

We all like Kole...but he is on a huge decline:

OWar:

2014  -3.9

2015 - 2.4

2016 - 3.1

2017 - 1.9

2018 - (-1.5)

 

He’s not this bad.   

[HaloNArizona]

1 minute ago, SuperTroopers said:

He’s not this bad.   

Average, OBP and Slg have all declined (now for the third straight year).

Kole is a .250/.330/.730 type of guy....He needs to find that guy.  He is not that guy right now.  

 

Our family is a big Kole fan...he played Juco ball in our back yard (at Yavapai CC)

[kevinb]

5 minutes ago, SuperTroopers said:

He’s not this bad.   

At some point tho you are what your numbers say you are. I remember Steve Finley and Alfonso playing pretty much a full year contributing nothing offensively. So who knows what Mike will do when given the chance 

[Pablo]

3 hours ago, greginpsca said:

Maldonado is as good as it gets defensively. He is a bargain for the pay. 

Catcher defense is so hard to quantify. Fangraphs podcast "Effectively Wild" recently studied the affect of effective pitch-framing on staff ERA, particularly (in this case) as it pertained to the Cubs with a 'location dependent' pitching staff and a sub-par framing catcher (Wilson Contreras). They were hoping to bring a correlation to why the Cubs staff has been struggling. Their research, however, showed the pitch-framing/pitching success link was (surprisingly) non-existent. So how do you quantify catcher defense?

I have heard some rail on Maldonado's failure to 'call good pitches" this year, but after watching Scioscia micro-manage his catchers for nearly 20 years, I gotta say that's a bunch'o'crap. IF Maldonado were calling the pitches, and IF he were doing a poor job, he would not be catching for a Mike Scioscia managed team. 

Blocking the plate used to be a good metric, until it was no longer allowed. So for me, the casual fan who has watched Angel catchers throw out 10% of opposing runners for 15 years, I am so over-the-top excited that we FINALLY have someone who can actually gun down a would-be base stealer, that this whole "Maldy is a bad defensive catcher" nonsense is just noise.

[Stradling]

35 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

At some point tho you are what your numbers say you are. I remember Steve Finley and Alfonso playing pretty much a full year contributing nothing offensively. So who knows what Mike will do when given the chance 

Well Kole deserves a much longer leash than Finley.   Finley was obviously going to get most of his first season to figure it out it was a two year deal and he had a couple of great years prior to the Angels signing him.   He was also 10-12 years older than Kole, so Kole should get a longer leash.  

[Stradling]

13 minutes ago, Pablo said:

Catcher defense is so hard to quantify. Fangraphs podcast "Effectively Wild" recently studied the affect of effective pitch-framing on staff ERA, particularly (in this case) as it pertained to the Cubs with a 'location dependent' pitching staff and a sub-par framing catcher (Wilson Contreras). They were hoping to bring a correlation to why the Cubs staff has been struggling. Their research, however, showed the pitch-framing/pitching success link was (surprisingly) non-existent. So how do you quantify catcher defense?

I have heard some rail on Maldonado's failure to 'call good pitches" this year, but after watching Scioscia micro-manage his catchers for nearly 20 years, I gotta say that's a bunch'o'crap. IF Maldonado were calling the pitches, and IF he were doing a poor job, he would not be catching for a Mike Scioscia managed team. 

Blocking the plate used to be a good metric, until it was no longer allowed. So for me, the casual fan who has watched Angel catchers throw out 10% of opposing runners for 15 years, I am so over-the-top excited that we FINALLY have someone who can actually gun down a would-be base stealer, that this whole "Maldy is a bad defensive catcher" nonsense is just noise.

Pablo if those are bad pitches being called then it’s on Maldonado, the catchers call the pitches.   I’ve noticed more times than not it isn’t a bad pitch call it’s missed location.  I remember guys on here railing on Maldonado for calling a fastball, but they ignore the fact that he’s set up outside and the pitch ends up on the inner part of the plate only to see the balldriven hard by the batter.   Who knows if it was a bad pitch selection but it absolutely wasn’t pitched where he called for the pitch to be located.  

[kevinb]

7 minutes ago, SuperTroopers said:

Well Kole deserves a much longer leash than Finley.   Finley was obviously going to get most of his first season to figure it out it was a two year deal and he had a couple of great years prior to the Angels signing him.   He was also 10-12 years older than Kole, so Kole should get a longer leash.  

What is the length of the leash though. Do u agree the Angels can’t go the whole season him hitting this way. Do u wait till the all star break? After that? Full season?