Calolfornia

[Jason]

10 hours ago, Tank said:

not sure where to put this.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/california-police-force-legislation_us_5ac3c013e4b00fa46f872c28

Didn't Graham V. Connor already settle the reasonableness requirement? 

[floplag]

49 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Did they issue him a dildo instead of a nightstick?

They arent that lost yet, but if this bullshit makes my daughter a widow ill be in line to take this crap down, on that you can be your ass. 

[gotbeer]

13 minutes ago, Jason said:

Didn't Graham V. Connor already settle the reasonableness requirement? 

 

Like that ever stopped Calolfornia from ignoring anything federal.

[floplag]

I for one am encouraged by recent cities and counties stepping up and saying enough is enough in terms of Sacramento's nonsense.  It may not be much yet but anyone stepping up to say no more is a good thing.  

[Tank]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

I for one am encouraged by recent cities and counties stepping up and saying enough is enough in terms of Sacramento's nonsense.  It may not be much yet but anyone stepping up to say no more is a good thing.  

i think there are two cities that have voted not to be sanctuary cities (or whatever the correct terminology is for this) so far. i expect there will be more, and i applaud them.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

Los Alamitos, Mission Viejo and Yorba Linda already sided with the feds and earlier this week so did HB & FV: 

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/04/03/huntington-beach-council-votes-to-sue-state-over-sanctuary-city-law/

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/04/04/fountain-valley-enters-sanctuary-city-fray-after-rohrabacher-offers-to-pay-legal-costs/ 

Not surprisingly Santa Ana has sided with the state.

 

 

[Tank]

thanks for the update, cat.

[floplag]

2 hours ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

Los Alamitos, Mission Viejo and Yorba Linda already sided with the feds and earlier this week so did HB & FV: 

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/04/03/huntington-beach-council-votes-to-sue-state-over-sanctuary-city-law/

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/04/04/fountain-valley-enters-sanctuary-city-fray-after-rohrabacher-offers-to-pay-legal-costs/ 

Not surprisingly Santa Ana has sided with the state.

 

 

grew up in HB and Yorba, couldnt be prouder

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

I live in HB and I think it's great to see them and any other cities stand up to Sacramento. 

On an unrelated note Irvine, Laguna Niguel and HB are pushing back against the plan for temporary homeless shelters.  The county approved 70M for permanent housing for the homeless but in the mean time they have to deal with ~400 families/individuals who were moved out of the river bed who have hotel vouchers that are expiring.  I realize they need somewhere to stay while they build something permanent but the site in Laguna Niguel is near a school/residences and the HB site is the dump which leads to health issues and it's also by the sports complex and businesses.  All 3 cities have threatened to sue and I don't blame them because they're trying to hand off the people who were in the river bed on other cities.  Costa Mesa quickly shot down the county trying to use the Fairview Development Center siting public safety, reduced property values and unduly burdening the city.  They need a solution that doesn't involve putting them up near houses, parks, schools or businesses because what happened in Santa Ana and Anaheim isn't something you can push on certain areas.

[red321]

16 hours ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

I live in HB and I think it's great to see them and any other cities stand up to Sacramento. 

On an unrelated note Irvine, Laguna Niguel and HB are pushing back against the plan for temporary homeless shelters.  The county approved 70M for permanent housing for the homeless but in the mean time they have to deal with ~400 families/individuals who were moved out of the river bed who have hotel vouchers that are expiring.  I realize they need somewhere to stay while they build something permanent but the site in Laguna Niguel is near a school/residences and the HB site is the dump which leads to health issues and it's also by the sports complex and businesses.  All 3 cities have threatened to sue and I don't blame them because they're trying to hand off the people who were in the river bed on other cities.  Costa Mesa quickly shot down the county trying to use the Fairview Development Center siting public safety, reduced property values and unduly burdening the city.  They need a solution that doesn't involve putting them up near houses, parks, schools or businesses because what happened in Santa Ana and Anaheim isn't something you can push on certain areas.

NIMBY

 

[Lhalo]

It’s not the county’s job to provide housing for a bunch of drug addicts and losers. 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

17 minutes ago, red321 said:

NIMBY

 

Just like every other city that doesn't want to take on the responsibility.  They saw what happened in Santa Ana and Anaheim and now the county is scrambling trying to find a fix when the move out of the riverbed was a short term one.  I know someone who works for a foundation that has been working with people from the riverbed encampment and when they started to clear it out the county had no real long term plan in place.  Businesses, people living in the area and those that used the trail to bike/run were simply fed up and it's no surprise no one else is lining up to take it on.

[red321]

Just now, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

Let me know when you're lining up to have them housed in your neighborhood.  

I live a few blocks away from the winter/temporary shelter in North Orange County

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

Did you support when they moved it in there and if you were looking to move would you rent or buy there now?  More power to you if you answer yes but I have zero problem saying I don't want a homeless encampment moved near where I live nor would I move to an area close to one.  The county dropped the ball for a long time on this one and they're scrambling to find fixes when they wouldn't work with outside groups the first time around.  

[Blarg]

17 hours ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

On an unrelated note Irvine, Laguna Niguel and HB are pushing back against the plan for temporary homeless shelters. 

There really is no temporary when it comes to these established shelters. They call them that to force the plan into place then it is nearly impossible to have them removed. 

[red321]

Not sure it really came into discussion. The center was here before we were.

There is a problem, the county has absolutely screwed it up. Shawn Nelson can suck a bag of moldy dicks. Though I think it's a mistake if other parts of the county simply think this is Anaheim, Fullerton, and Santa Ana's problem and a lot of what I see, at least in the news reports is cities wanting to make it the problem of other cities.

 

 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

5 minutes ago, Blarg said:

There really is no temporary when it comes to these established shelters. They call them that to force the plan into place then it is nearly impossible to have them removed. 

The 3 sites they were looking at are supposed to be temporary (not saying I believe that would be the case) while they use the 70M they committed to build a permanent solution.  That said who knows how long that permanent solution takes because they need to find the land and actually build it.    

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

26 minutes ago, red321 said:

Not sure it really came into discussion. The center was here before we were.

There is a problem, the county has absolutely screwed it up. Shawn Nelson can suck a bag of moldy dicks. Though I think it's a mistake if other parts of the county simply think this is Anaheim, Fullerton, and Santa Ana's problem and a lot of what I see, at least in the news reports is cities wanting to make it the problem of other cities.

 

 

More power to you, honestly.  We haven't started a family yet but plan to and I simply don't want to see homeless people wandering by the schools, parks or through the neighborhood.  The bus stop a few blocks from our place had someone who set up camp off and on for a few days who had a shopping cart and she left a ton of trash to the point no one would sit on the bench.  Not sure if she had anything to do with it (could have been a kid) but someone apparently lit a fire in the trash can, it melted it to the ground and the city ended up having to replace the entire bus stop.  There's another guy who keeps to himself that sleeps a few blocks away and walks up and down the streets all day.  On a walk a week or two ago I saw him peeing into the channel right off a major street before he took off for the day.  Down near main street the city has to come clean up the needles in the morning in an area where people gather late into the night and they've had an uptick in car break ins.

The county screwed the pooch big time and they really didn't make it any better when they moved people out of the riverbed.  Some of the people they gave the hotel vouchers to stayed a few nights at most and took off because I assume they prefer to be on the street.  The groups and foundations that have housing they help transition people into have their own services that include watching the properties, making sure people take their meds, get health services when they need it, don't do drugs, follow the rules and so on.  These groups aim to get people back on their feet so it's a process that has to be closely monitored.  The county only wanted the use of the properties and said they'd provide the other services.  As you can imagine these outside groups wouldn't go for that because it's their properties, liability and reputation on the line.  

As far as making it other cities problems that's what they're doing trying to move the people who were previously at the riverbed to other cities.  It's a county problem but you can't expect any other city to take them on when the county has no long term plan currently in place.  

[red321]

Keep in mind though, the people set up camp in the riverbed due to lack of other options. I think a lot of people in cities don't care about an actual solution, but rather just making sure they aren't in their backyard (and I apologize for my initial comment). Reality is, the county, working the cities and outside groups, is going to need to figure something out. What's happening now just isn't viable.

[floplag]

Imagine, and im just brainstorming here, if we cared as much about the homeless as we do illegals and refugees?  Wouldnt that be a hoot?

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

I hope a good number of people care about an actual solution because there's been an uptick in the number of homeless across LA/OC the last so many years, in OC we've seen it spread into the suburbs and it's not going to fix itself.  It's a tricky situation because no one wants a solution in their community and while studies show it can save the county money in the long run it's a tough pill to swallow when cities are financially strapped, pension costs are through the roof and taxes only go up.  One issue in regards to to the homeless is that some of them don't want help and they just want to be left alone but they end up in places where they really shouldn't be.  You can't force someone to get help and if they don't follow the rules (do drugs, don't take medications, etc) they won't get help from some non-profits. 

Any permanent solution needs to come with rules like no drugs, your residence is subject to someone inspecting/monitoring it to make sure it isn't destroyed and you have to work towards transitioning out.  In the case of mental health issues not everyone can transition out and that's fine but human nature tells us that if you just give something to people with no strings some are going to take advantage.  I've been told stories where families lived in transitional housing and the one of the parents couldn't kick their habit so they had to go and then the rest of the family goes with them back onto the streets even though they have the option to stay.  There's a fine line between helping and enabling and I don't think this is something the cities or county alone can take on as they need outside support from people and organizations who know the solution isn't just to build permanent housing.   

[mtangelsfan]

I've often wondered why some of the empty parts of military bases cannot be used to house the homeless.  I am thinking parts of the former El Toro base, the Seal Beach base.

There is a lot of empty ground out there.

 

[Lou]

2 hours ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

It's a tricky situation because no one wants a solution in their community

Bingo.

Cons and libs alike fall into this category.  

[Lou]

18 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

I've often wondered why some of the empty parts of military bases cannot be used to house the homeless.  I am thinking parts of the former El Toro base, the Seal Beach base.

There is a lot of empty ground out there.

 

Because it makes too much sense. 

[Lou]

I suggest that all those showing their outrage about this situation should take in a homeless person or two for a couple of months.