Calolfornia

[floplag]

On 6/1/2018 at 3:08 PM, Make Angels Great Again said:

This state is a piece of shit. F*ck me.

http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20180530/NEWS/180539991

 

California Assembly passes bill expanding Medicaid to immigrants

 

All adult illegal aliens will be able to get free health insurance in California. Estimated cost is billions.

This is asinine, beyond reprehensible.   I get pandering votes but this is Facking reprehensible!  Are they really so desperate and afraid of losing power in this state that this is what they have to do?

As far as the races for office they have no platform, literally every commercial ive seen is "ill hold Trump accountable".. thats the entirety of thier platform, no issues, no nothing just anti-Trump rhetoric.   

[red321]

8 minutes ago, floplag said:

As far as the races for office they have no platform, literally every commercial ive seen is "ill hold Trump accountable".. thats the entirety of thier platform, no issues, no nothing just anti-Trump rhetoric.   

Well, someone has to right...the Republican majority house and senate have certainly shown they aren't going to

[Adam]

What better way to hold Trump accountable than by jacking up current taxes and creating new ones. 

[Make Angels Great Again]

6 minutes ago, red321 said:

Well, someone has to right...the Republican majority house and senate have certainly shown they aren't going to

[floplag]

12 minutes ago, red321 said:

Well, someone has to right...the Republican majority house and senate have certainly shown they aren't going to

Well yes items like the free health care for illegals are a much better platforms... what was i thinking.  

[red321]

8 minutes ago, floplag said:

Well yes items like the free health care for illegals are a much better platforms... what was i thinking.  

It was your assertion that solely running on the platform that you would hold trump accountable is a bad thing, I tend to agree with that point but at the same time I think it's a perfectly reasonable platform when the current congress has abdicated any responsibility for doing so.

I would also point you to the discussion earlier in the thread that highlighted the "free healthcare for illegals" was an incorrect assertion. Subsidized...yes, in some cases free depending on income, yes...the same rules and parameters set out for anyone who is part of the Medi-cal program. Again, not sure I agree with that, but if you want to discuss it stop trying to obamaphone it.

[Thomas]

26 minutes ago, red321 said:

Well, someone has to right...the Republican majority house and senate have certainly shown they aren't going to

You'd hope that was a given in the primaries. 

[red321]

Just now, Thomas said:

You'd hope that was a given in the primaries. 

There's a pretty good chance Democrats are going to shoot themselves in the dick...again...tomorrow. Won't be surprised to see them locked out of a few winnable November races because they have too many candidates splitting up the primary vote tomorrow.

 

[floplag]

11 minutes ago, red321 said:

It was your assertion that solely running on the platform that you would hold trump accountable is a bad thing, I tend to agree with that point but at the same time I think it's a perfectly reasonable platform when the current congress has abdicated any responsibility for doing so.

I would also point you to the discussion earlier in the thread that highlighted the "free healthcare for illegals" was an incorrect assertion. Subsidized...yes, in some cases free depending on income, yes...the same rules and parameters set out for anyone who is part of the Medi-cal program. Again, not sure I agree with that, but if you want to discuss it stop trying to obamaphone it.

Let me make my feeling on it crystal clear for you, my tax dollars should not go to any illegal programs, period.  Splitting hairs over funding versus subsidizing is irrelevant.  We do virtually nothing for our own issues with homeless and vets so i cannot abide these programs existing.   Even more so i think its disingenuous to claim them as humanitarian, they are not, they are vote pandering, nothing more.  If we were truly humanitarian i couldnt make the comment i made above regarding vets/homeless and if we were doing that i would be more inclined to accept this, but were not, thus moot.  

The partisan nonsense has got to stop.  Party cannot be more important than country, and for the extremes today it is absolutely so.  The Dems have done nothing in this term, nothing.  They have refused to even take part and meet with Trump, thats not how this is supposed to work.  I dont give a damn who is in the oval office, i expect both sides to work the process.  i do not see the Dems doing that at all currently.  I keep hoping they will do something to change my mind, but those who makes a token effort get turned on and crucified.  

 

10 minutes ago, red321 said:

There's a pretty good chance Democrats are going to shoot themselves in the dick...again...tomorrow. Won't be surprised to see them locked out of a few winnable November races because they have too many candidates splitting up the primary vote tomorrow.

 

I think this is exactly what will happen, unless its pure identity politics and we all know how that worked out last time.  

[red321]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

Let me make my feeling on it crystal clear for you, my tax dollars should not go to any illegal programs, period.  Splitting hairs over funding versus subsidizing is irrelevant. 

It's not irrelevant when you keep making false statements. Your viewpoint is fine, but when you back it up with false assertions it makes it look uninformed. Even in your little rant you misstate it. This is not an illegal program, or program for illegals, it's allowing undocumented immigrants to participate in the same medi-cal program as everyone else. When you assert it as free healthcare for illegals, it makes it sound like the government has decided to give a special benefit to undocumented immigrants that nobody else gets...like a special bonus.

I also think there is an interesting debate to be had about what would actually lower healthcare costs, making the pool of people larger and giving people better access to preventative care rather than using the ER room for chronic conditions that aren't managed or issues that are better served by seeing a regular doctor. Sick people go to the ER, that's expensive, and when they can't pay that cost gets spread to everyone else.

 

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

The partisan nonsense has got to stop.  Party cannot be more important than country, and for the extremes today it is absolutely so.  The Dems have done nothing in this term, nothing.  They have refused to even take part and meet with Trump, thats not how this is supposed to work.  I dont give a damn who is in the oval office, i expect both sides to work the process.  i do not see the Dems doing that at all currently.  I keep hoping they will do something to change my mind, but those who makes a token effort get turned on and crucified.  

You are right...party can't be more important than country...and yet you want to blame Democrats because the Republicans refuse to hold the executive branch accountable.

I would like to know what you would expect from the Democrats when the Republicans control the executive branch, the house, and the senate. (ps...the held multiple meetings with Trump on subjects like daca and the budget...only to have Trump pull out of the deals)

 

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, red321 said:

This is not an illegal program, or program for illegals, it's allowing undocumented immigrants to participate in the same medi-cal program as everyone else

it's funny how you call them "illegals" when referring to flop's comments, yet they're "undocumented immigrants" when you make a comment about them. 

undocumented workers are here illegally.

[floplag]

4 minutes ago, red321 said:

It's not irrelevant when you keep making false statements. Your viewpoint is fine, but when you back it up with false assertions it makes it look uninformed. Even in your little rant you misstate it. This is not an illegal program, or program for illegals, it's allowing undocumented immigrants to participate in the same medi-cal program as everyone else. When you assert it as free healthcare for illegals, it makes it sound like the government has decided to give a special benefit to undocumented immigrants that nobody else gets...like a special bonus.

I also think there is an interesting debate to be had about what would actually lower healthcare costs, making the pool of people larger and giving people better access to preventative care rather than using the ER room for chronic conditions that aren't managed or issues that are better served by seeing a regular doctor. Sick people go to the ER, that's expensive, and when they can't pay that cost gets spread to everyone else.

 

You are right...party can't be more important than country...and yet you want to blame Democrats because the Republicans refuse to hold the executive branch accountable.

I would like to know what you would expect from the Democrats when the Republicans control the executive branch, the house, and the senate. (ps...the held multiple meetings with Trump on subjects like daca and the budget...only to have Trump pull out of the deals)

 

undocumented = illegal, the rest is moot. 
It is a benefit they are not entitled to without being a citizen or documented immigrant/alien.  They are doing this to garner votes, nothing more, its transparent and its wrong.  I am 100% pre immigration, and 100% against illegal.  Shocking i know but there is a difference. 

I'm not holding the Dems accountable for anything the Reps are or are not doing, im holding them accountable for refusing to even take part.  They refuse to meet Trump or work with Trump, thats all on them.   You quote daca and the budget without consideration of why they actually made a token effort on those issues, heres a hint, it weasnt to pass them, they knew it wasnt going to under the terms they wanted.

The Dems need to show they care about all citizens, and move away from this identity bullshit, until they do they wont get my support, period.   

[red321]

25 minutes ago, floplag said:

It is a benefit they are not entitled to without being a citizen or documented immigrant/alien.  They are doing this to garner votes, nothing more, its transparent and its wrong.  I am 100% pre immigration, and 100% against illegal.  Shocking i know but there is a difference. 

Again, you are fighting a windmill. I understand your position, agree with it (to a degree). Your best keeping your argument to that rather than making a mess of the rest of it by stating it does things it does not.

25 minutes ago, floplag said:

They refuse to meet Trump or work with Trump, thats all on them.   You quote daca and the budget without consideration of why they actually made a token effort on those issues, heres a hint, it weasnt to pass them, they knew it wasnt going to under the terms they wanted.

You stated they hadn't met with Trump...I gave examples of where they did, and deals they agree to, which were then yanked out from under them. Hell, there's even video out there of Trump agree with Feinstein in a large round table only to backtrack moments later when Kevin McCarthy goes full...oh shit dude, you don't know what you just agreed do. 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2018 by red321

[Make Angels Great Again]

32 minutes ago, Lou said:

it's funny how you call them "illegals" when referring to flop's comments, yet they're "undocumented immigrants" when you make a comment about them. 

undocumented workers are here illegally.

 

"Undocumented Immigrants" is maybe the stupidest term used on the left.

It's like calling a drug dealer an Undocumented Pharmacist.

[Make Angels Great Again]

2 minutes ago, calscuf said:

There's exactly 0% chance you didn't steal that line from someone.

Ha, I forget where I heard it but I thought it was perfect.

[floplag]

36 minutes ago, red321 said:

Again, you are fighting a windmill. I understand your position, agree with it (to a degree). Your best keeping your argument to that rather than making a mess of the rest of it by stating it does things it does not.

You stated they hadn't met with Trump...I gave examples of where they did, and deals they agree to, which were then yanked out from under them. Hell, there's even video out there of Trump agree with Feinstein in a large round table only to backtrack moments later when Kevin McCarthy goes full...oh shit dude, you don't know what you just agreed do. 

 

 

You miss my point, they knew going it those meetings were not going to be fruitful and did so for no reason other than letting people see these videos so they could claim they tried.  It was political soft shoe, nothing more, they were not in my view a legitimate attempt to achieve anything which is the standard i'm trying to hold them to.  There is a marked difference between a staged meeting, and one that has a chance of a positive outcome for all concerned. 

[red321]

They came to an agreement on multiple issues...only to have the administration back out. In one instance they offered Trump full funding of his wall...and he backed out.

 

And seriously...your complaint was they wouldn't meet with him...they did...but now your complaint is they did meet with him...but not really...because they didn't mean it (even though on multiple occasions they actually had agreements or in other instances agreements to move forward).

Where are you going to move the line next? 

 

And this isn't me saying the Democrats have been perfect, far from it...your argument is just silly though.

Edited June 4, 2018 by red321

[gotbeer]

2 hours ago, floplag said:

This is asinine, beyond reprehensible.   I get pandering votes but this is Facking reprehensible!  Are they really so desperate and afraid of losing power in this state that this is what they have to do?

As far as the races for office they have no platform, literally every commercial ive seen is "ill hold Trump accountable".. thats the entirety of thier platform, no issues, no nothing just anti-Trump rhetoric.   

The one I love is the Newsom I think one saying the Republican guy running for governor was for the Trump federal tax cuts.  Like it's a bad thing.   

[gotbeer]

59 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

"Undocumented Immigrants" is maybe the stupidest term used on the left.

It's like calling a drug dealer an Undocumented Pharmacist.

No, the left just calls them all immigrants now.  At least they don't use undocumented or illegal in any ads I've seen lately.  

[Thomas]

2 hours ago, red321 said:

There's a pretty good chance Democrats are going to shoot themselves in the dick...again...tomorrow. Won't be surprised to see them locked out of a few winnable November races because they have too many candidates splitting up the primary vote tomorrow

I wasn't aware of Prop 14 since I left before that came to be. Um..wow. 

[red321]

8 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

The one I love is the Newsom I think one saying the Republican guy running for governor was for the Trump federal tax cuts.  Like it's a bad thing.   

That ad has pissed off a lot of Democrats. He's trying to boost Cox's standing with Republicans so Cox finishes in the top two. Lot easier for Newsom to run against Cox than another Democratic in the general.

I'm not a fan of the jungle primary, never have been.

[red321]

1 minute ago, Thomas said:

I wasn't aware of Prop 14 since I left before that came to be. Um..wow. 

It's a pretty big cluster fuck. The idea behind it sounds great on paper...hey...look, now anyone can run in the primary and the top two go to the general. The idea was it would create more moderate candidates and even allow third parties to get in on the action!

The reality is far from that though. What you usually end up with is less choice. Yes, it's funny to see two Democrats on the final ballot for Senate...but it means a good portion of the state is left without someone to vote for in the general and in a lot of ways reduces turnout. Why would Republicans turn out if only Democrats appeared on their ballot. And, there's almost 0 chance a third party candidate makes it to November. Last cycle you had an overwhelmingly Democratic district with 3 viable candidates...they split the vote and two Republicans snuck in to the general in November.

In this cycle it's been a mess. Democrats running ads "criticizing" Republicans, hoping to boost their poll numbers. Democrats, and Republicans, running ads against Republican candidates trying to push down their numbers (Scott Baugh in Rohrabacher's district). 1,923 Democratic candidates running in another district which could lead to Democrats winning a majority of votes, but having no candidates on the ballot in November.

In the future I would expect to see less candidates run and for the parties to take more control over who they push to get on the ballot meaning even less opportunity for outsiders to run.

[Thomas]

4 minutes ago, red321 said:

In the future I would expect to see less candidates run and for the parties to take more control over who they push to get on the ballot meaning even less opportunity for outsiders to run.

Yay democracy?

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

41 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

No, the left just calls them all immigrants now.  At least they don't use undocumented or illegal in any ads I've seen lately.  

Kind of like how Villaraigosa's most recent commercial says he'll "protect immigrants."  

The entire election process is sad and both sides are to blame.  I know there's been an attempt to get it so that Rohrabacker and Baugh aren't the two on the general ballot and in the last few weeks we started getting flyers saying don't let this happen.  I know all of the local Baugh signs had "indicted for campaign fraud" added to them and we've received way more flyers blasting both of those guys than flyers in favor of them.  I know full well both sides are doing it but that's the one that came to mind locally.  

[Adam]

Gavin has to win right?