Is Scott Kazmir living proof, Butcher is worthless ?

[mtangelsfan]

This thread is living proof that reason and logic are useless to many aw posters.

 

This thought process is the perfect example of starting with an opinion and then trying to find "facts" to prove them. 

[AngelsFanSince86]

You also have the case of Fernando Rodney, who even specifically blamed Butcher in the media for forcing him to change his pitching mechanics in unnatural ways. Has an unblelievably good 2012, but even after "returning to earth" he is still significantly better than he was with the Angels. 

 

 

I never read/heard about that, but I will take your word for it.  I still have never understood the Rodney argument though because he came to the Angels with a career 4.28 ERA as a relief pitcher.  Its not like he was this great pitcher beforehand and then Butcher ruined him.  I don't blame Butcher for trying to change his mechanics because whatever he was doing with the Tigers certainly wasn't working.

[tdawg87]

Butcher is a very traditional pitching coach who regurgitates the same tired cliches as the ones his coaches probably taught him. Because of this, he was unable to help a guy like Kazmir, who I'd bet good money, butch never liked his "violent" mechanics anyway. Then problems start, and it becomes a good way to start changing the stuff he doesn't like. Then kazmir gradually gets worse.

Not a surprise at all that kaz had to go outside the mlb inner circle to a more cutting edge guy like Ron Wolforth to get himself back on track. Butcher was completely useless to him.

 

How would you know literally any of this?

[m0nkey]

This thread is proof that the OP is a EDITED

MOD EDIT: KNOCK IT OFF

Man I hate editeds

[Brandon]

I may hate Butcher and Sosh the most of anyone here but even ill say Kazmir was a horrible trade. At the time I believe he was just a stoner who got his paycheck and laid out by the pool for a while. No coaching woulda fixed that lazy asses pitching. No fault of Butcher for him sku'ing with us.

 

True.

 

I know someone that works for the team that said Kazmir is the biggest stoner they have ever seen...not sure if he meant for baseball standards or just in general.

 

Granted, I doubt he gave up pot and started pitching well, but he was smoking a lot of weed here.

[full circle]

How would you know literally any of this?

Well, you would actually have to know something about the playing of and teaching of how to play, baseball. Your free to dismiss my opinion, that's all it is after all.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Nice outing for Kaz.

[Stradling]

Is Bartolo Colon proof that Bud Black is worthless?

[Dick B Back]

I don't know but I blame Bud Black for Brandon Wood!

[Blarg]

I blame Joey Wings for not knowing anything about baseball and starting a thread last year.

[Guest]

You should look into "confirmation bias." It might help your glaringly non-existent reasoning skills, but I wouldn't hold my breath. 

[AngelsFaninGA]

Kazmir is proof that our offense is worthless.

[tomsred]

I'm convinced that you can rationalize anything in baseball.  Pretty soon you lose your mind, and then you die.  Then you become stardust, a part of the universe.  Then the whole cycle starts all over again. 

[JoJo26]

Jason Grilli seems to be thriving....Joe Blanton won the other day...Darren O'Day is awesome....

[Stradling]

Jason Grilli seems to be thriving....Joe Blanton won the other day...Darren O'Day is awesome....

And? Please go on record and blame this on Butcher. I'm looking forward to you being looked at with even less respect.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Grilli was good with us.

[Hollyw00d]

I'm convinced that you can rationalize anything in baseball. Pretty soon you lose your mind, and then you die. Then you become stardust, a part of the universe. Then the whole cycle starts all over again.

The shrooms are pretty good today, huh?

[Hollyw00d]

And? Please go on record and blame this on Butcher. I'm looking forward to you being looked at with even less respect.

Relax dude

[JoJo26]

Relax dude

No shit....

[Stradling]

Well you consistently have silly opinions, so I assumed you were serious.

[tdawg87]

And you consistently have your penis out at Chuck E. Cheese, but you don't see me complaining about animal style fries.

 

I;m drunk

[Stradling]

Well the rat is hot

[ten ocho recon scout]

Agreed, especially after they made chuck an edgier, hip hop mouse

[tdawg87]

That was just to appease the urban audience

 

F'n Obama

[Second Base]

The Angels coaching staff at the top level could be better. Scioscia veteran preference and personnel decisions are outdated, counterproductive and at times just plain idiotic. Gary DiSarcina, he might be the worst 3B coach in history. Butcher, well a lot pitchers seem to go on to more success after they leave his services. Baylor, he's cool.