Cops are great

[NrM]

While I'll agree that spitting blood is considered assault, I don't agree that someone should be shot for doing it.

What is the appropriate response? I would probably punch him in his spitting mouth. Or maybe they should just burlap sack all these bastards.

 

depends on the situation I guess.

 

If the cop is able to back away and the suspect immediately stopped spitting, then it wouldn't be justified.

 

If the cop were able to back away while puling out his firearm and telling the suspect to stop/halt, yet the suspect still kept charging him and spitting, then it probably would be justified to shoot his ass.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Poozy

[LBHalos17]

I have seen the video, and agree that it does not view like a justifiable shooting.  But, I'll reserve judgement until all investigations are complete (there will be plenty, in light of the video alone- Department, District Attorney, Sheriff/County, probably Federal, and of course Civilian Review Boards and investigators representing the suspect/family).

 

This suspect was wanted for an armed robbery of a Walmart, that LASD Sheriffs responded to.  He assaulted employees, Security Guards, and a responding Sheriff with scissors.  He escaped capture there, and then led Officers on a pursuit that ended at the dead-end of the street in downtown Long Beach.  He remained in the car for a while, before coming out.  The Sheriffs deployed less-lethal rounds on him, when he turned to walk/run down the stairs to the beach.  I don't know if he was actually struck by those rounds, but usually when suspects are hit with them they assume they've been lethally-shot and give-up.  When they don't, it usually means they are under the influence (Meth, PCP, etc.).

 

This suspect then ran away from a K9, and down the stairs.  The Officers at the bottom of the stairs obviously believed he was a lethal threat to them and the public beyond.  We'll see if they're found to be within Department Policy, or guilty of violating his Civil Rights.

[mp170.6]

Come on LBHalos17, i've seen how department policy manuals are written.  The ambiguity and deference to the officer's judgment is really unbelievable.  Little is written about doing your job within the confines of a person's civil rights.

 

Does your department have an explicit rule stating you are not to shoot unarmed suspects, who aren't resisting, and pose no immediate threat to you or the public?  I'm not talking bean bag rounds either.  I'm betting the answer to that question is no.

[mp170.6]

I have lots of family and friends who are current or retired police officers. 

 

There's a consistent trend with all of them over the past 10 to 15 years.  They are their usual jovial self when not working, at least on the outside.  They seem happy.  They seem relaxed.  But in reality, they're becoming more paranoid by the day.  More paranoid about EVERYTHING, some bordering on mental illness.  They have no bad work experiences to substantiate their fears, and by their own admission, crime levels are about the same or even lower in the cities they work.  You wouldn't believe some of the precautions they resort to to "protect" themselves when not at work.  Just ask if you want specifics because most of the public has no concept how they live while off-duty!

 

I wish they would understand the more trigger happy they become, the more the American public will follow in their footsteps.  We're reaching a tipping point in this country where otherwise law-abiding citizens, in fear for their safety, will impulsively plant a bullet into the back of a police officer's head.  I would never take that route but those who would are increasing in number everyday.  And it's for this reason that a police officer's biggest enemies may be his fellow officers all over this country, not the criminals themselves. 

 

Stop covering up and justifying whatever your fellow officers do wrong.  Be nicer to people.  Be smarter police officers.  Be better problem solvers, not problem creators.  Learn to have more restraint.  Stop killing people who pose no threat. 

 

Do all of these things, and not only will people begin to trust you again, but your job will become much safer.  You won't need to live paranoid anymore. 

[NrM]

I have seen the video, and agree that it does not view like a justifiable shooting. But, I'll reserve judgement until all investigations are complete (there will be plenty, in light of the video alone- Department, District Attorney, Sheriff/County, probably Federal, and of course Civilian Review Boards and investigators representing the suspect/family).

This suspect was wanted for an armed robbery of a Walmart, that LASD Sheriffs responded to. He assaulted employees, Security Guards, and a responding Sheriff with scissors. He escaped capture there, and then led Officers on a pursuit that ended at the dead-end of the street in downtown Long Beach. He remained in the car for a while, before coming out. The Sheriffs deployed less-lethal rounds on him, when he turned to walk/run down the stairs to the beach. I don't know if he was actually struck by those rounds, but usually when suspects are hit with them they assume they've been lethally-shot and give-up. When they don't, it usually means they are under the influence (Meth, PCP, etc.).

This suspect then ran away from a K9, and down the stairs. The Officers at the bottom of the stairs obviously believed he was a lethal threat to them and the public beyond. We'll see if they're found to be within Department Policy, or guilty of violating his Civil Rights.

yep....like you said...if he was a danger to other people or high valued resources, which it seems like he was, then the cops were justified to shoot him while he was running. Edited May 2, 2014 by Poozy

[HaloMagic]

It seems like he was. According to who? The cops that shot him. No one is questioning that they judged him to be a threat. We are questioning why their judgement tends to be so shitty so often.

[mtangelsfan]

I have seen the video, and agree that it does not view like a justifiable shooting. But, I'll reserve judgement until all investigations are complete (there will be plenty, in light of the video alone- Department, District Attorney, Sheriff/County, probably Federal, and of course Civilian Review Boards and investigators representing the suspect/family).

 

This is the circular reasoning that is truly wrong with the entire system.  The high probability is that these officers will be cleared (because that is what usually happens).  Hence all officers will say "see, there was nothing wrong with this shooting". 

[yk9001]

The two mexican newspaper carriers were deemed to be a threat.

 

So was the white surfer dude.

[HaloMagic]

The white surfer dude was deemed to be a threat even after they discovered that he was a white surfer dude considering that they ripped him out of the car and handcuffed him.

But I'll hold off judgement until the investigations are complete. Did we ever find out if the white surfer dude was Christopher Dorner?

[yk9001]

If police are anxious, scared, or peeing in their panties, they are allowed to shoot at anyone.  The public just needs to deal with it, and hope the scared cops have the same aim as the Torrance officers.

[LBHalos17]

I have lots of family and friends who are current or retired police officers. 

 

There's a consistent trend with all of them over the past 10 to 15 years.  They are their usual jovial self when not working, at least on the outside.  They seem happy.  They seem relaxed.  But in reality, they're becoming more paranoid by the day.  More paranoid about EVERYTHING, some bordering on mental illness.  They have no bad work experiences to substantiate their fears, and by their own admission, crime levels are about the same or even lower in the cities they work.  You wouldn't believe some of the precautions they resort to to "protect" themselves when not at work.  Just ask if you want specifics because most of the public has no concept how they live while off-duty!

 

I wish they would understand the more trigger happy they become, the more the American public will follow in their footsteps.  We're reaching a tipping point in this country where otherwise law-abiding citizens, in fear for their safety, will impulsively plant a bullet into the back of a police officer's head.  I would never take that route but those who would are increasing in number everyday.  And it's for this reason that a police officer's biggest enemies may be his fellow officers all over this country, not the criminals themselves. 

 

Stop covering up and justifying whatever your fellow officers do wrong.  Be nicer to people.  Be smarter police officers.  Be better problem solvers, not problem creators.  Learn to have more restraint.  Stop killing people who pose no threat. 

 

Do all of these things, and not only will people begin to trust you again, but your job will become much safer.  You won't need to live paranoid anymore. 

Thanks for the judgement..  Apparently, you know all the facts of this incident from watching minutes of video at the end.  I'll just have to trust your professional opinion about all your family and friends who are current or retired Officers; I hope they get the help you feel they need to re-gain the trust of the community.

 

As for me and my co-workers, we don't put on a costume and change our personalities when we go to work.  We do this job to help and protect people, and treat people as we want to be treated.  I've said in here before, that if I witness misconduct from a co-worker, it gets reported and corrected.

 

I can't wait to hear about how you think I live off-duty.  Let me guess, wearing my vest all the time (I wear mine surfing; you never know), and conceal an AR-15 in church.  Close?

 

You should do some research about "trigger-happy" Cops too.  The number of OIS' (Officer-involved-shootings) is very low related to the number of violent or weapon calls that are handled.

 

Just curious, did you ever go on a ride-along with any of your family/Officers?  What kind of calls did you get to see handled?

[mtangelsfan]

 that if I witness misconduct from a co-worker, it gets reported and corrected.

 

Wait though, you aren't even willing to say that the shooting we see in the video is misconduct.  Who cares if nothing ever gets reported?

[NrM]

 that if I witness misconduct from a co-worker, it gets reported and corrected.

 

Wait though, you aren't even willing to say that the shooting we see in the video is misconduct.  Who cares if nothing ever gets reported?

The video was taken down, so I wasn't able to see it, but like what was previously said, if the individual was deemed an imminent threat to pedestrians, then it probably was justified.

Especially when less than lethal methods failed.

 

 

This suspect was wanted for an armed robbery of a Walmart, that LASD Sheriffs responded to.  He assaulted employees, Security Guards, and a responding Sheriff with scissors.  He escaped capture there, and then led Officers on a pursuit that ended at the dead-end of the street in downtown Long Beach.  He remained in the car for a while, before coming out.  The Sheriffs deployed less-lethal rounds on him, when he turned to walk/run down the stairs to the beach.  I don't know if he was actually struck by those rounds, but usually when suspects are hit with them they assume they've been lethally-shot and give-up.  When they don't, it usually means they are under the influence (Meth, PCP, etc.)....

 

Truly nothing short of pathetic that you guys are defending a scumbag like this, but I'm not surprised.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Poozy

[mtangelsfan]

LOL, nobody is defending the guy.  Nobody is saying he is innocent.  This is what you keep failing to understand.  If a guy is running away and unarmed the biggest threat to anyone is going to be bullets from guns being fired.  I would also add that there was a police dog in pursuit of this guy, why not let the dog do its job?  They put the dog in danger by shooting at the suspect.

 

What is pathetic is blind acceptance of authority.

[Adam]

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/22-year-syndrome-beaten-police-bulge-pants-colostomy-bag/

[AngelsLongBall]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/oddnews/%E2%80%98suspicious%E2%80%99--sober-driver-arrested-for-drunk-driving-after-deputy-runs-stop-sign-and-crashes-into-her-car-213839328.html

[Adam]

a super minority

[mp170.6]

LBHalos17, my last post wasn't specifically directed at you.  That's why I created a new reply.

How many of the following traits apply to you or your co-workers?  Be honest.  Don't tell us which ones, just count them up.  I'm not mocking you either, just genuinely curious because I see these in my family and friends who are cops. 

- You have a PO Box or use the police station address because you're afraid to reveal your home address.
- Sometimes you use aliases (or cash) when buying things to avoid revealing your real name.
- You regularly Google your name, address, and phone numbers to make sure they haven't been posted to the internet.  Alternatively, you pay a monitoring service to do this for you.  
- You have confidential license plates so not even the DMV can see your home address.
- The house you own is not listed in your name, but in your lawyer's name.
- Outgoing caller ID on your landline and cell phone is blocked by default.
- Utility bills are either sent to your PO Box or listed in somebody else's name.
- Your plumber, electrician, repairman, and auto mechanic have been vetted with background checks by fellow officers or your police union.
- Your house has an expensive alarm and surveillance camera system.
- Working and living in the same city is not an option.
- All of your street clothes are purposely baggy to conceal a weapon.

- Your closest friends are fellow officers because you have a hard time trusting anybody else.
- You don't want your wife or daughters out by themselves after dark.
- You insist that your wife and daughters learn how to use your guns.
- You have enough ammunition stored up to kill your entire neighborhood.
- You have a top of the line paper shredder.
- You have motion detection flood lamps on all sides of your house.
- You have plastic zip-tie handcuffs in the trunk of your car.
- You have a scanner at home to monitor radio traffic while off-duty.
- You have enough firearms to open a gun shop out of your house.
- You are leery about doing business online.
- You dislike flying by airplane because TSA won't allow you to bring firearms along.
- You take medications like Xanax or Prozac because your anxiety levels are off the charts. 

[yk9001]

The guy on the beach in Long Beach wasn't going to be helping society in any way shape or form.  He was a drug addict loser con.  The world is a better place without him.

 

As said previously, the police dog was just about to do his job... there could have been miscommunication between the LA Sheriff's and the LBPD.  Two more seconds and the dog would have had him down.

 

btw, the commentary by the gays having lunch in the apartment is pretty hilarious.  Oh, Long Beach!!

[arch stanton]

I only hope it's the ones who think this is ok who get hit with the stray bullets. The quickness with which they decide lethal force is plan A should be alarming to everyone.

[RallyMo]

Truly nothing short of pathetic that you guys are defending a scumbag like this, but I'm not surprised.

I truly don't think that you are analyzing what you are reading here in any rational way.

NOBODY is defending this guy at all.

[gotbeer]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/oddnews/%E2%80%98suspicious%E2%80%99--sober-driver-arrested-for-drunk-driving-after-deputy-runs-stop-sign-and-crashes-into-her-car-213839328.html

 

It gets better.

 

Sober woman arrested for drunk driving after deputy falsifies report

 

 

Quiles hasn't worked since the crash, and — despite apparently suffering minimal harm in the crash he caused — has filed for permanent duty disability. 

 

[LBHalos17]

 that if I witness misconduct from a co-worker, it gets reported and corrected.

 

Wait though, you aren't even willing to say that the shooting we see in the video is misconduct.  Who cares if nothing ever gets reported?

Pick your context as usual eMT.  I'm willing to let justice work, but to you the Officers shouldn't get due process.  Just rely on minutes of video from one angle.  Does it see everything as you obviously do?  Grow some reason to go along with your emotion.

[LBHalos17]

LOL, nobody is defending the guy.  Nobody is saying he is innocent.  This is what you keep failing to understand.  If a guy is running away and unarmed the biggest threat to anyone is going to be bullets from guns being fired.  I would also add that there was a police dog in pursuit of this guy, why not let the dog do its job?  They put the dog in danger by shooting at the suspect.

 

What is pathetic is blind acceptance of authority.

You are playing your own Judge; omnipotent from viewing one video (though probably many times over).

[LBHalos17]

The guy on the beach in Long Beach wasn't going to be helping society in any way shape or form.  He was a drug addict loser con.  The world is a better place without him.

 

As said previously, the police dog was just about to do his job... there could have been miscommunication between the LA Sheriff's and the LBPD.  Two more seconds and the dog would have had him down.

 

btw, the commentary by the gays having lunch in the apartment is pretty hilarious.  Oh, Long Beach!!

Agreed; there was probably a lack of communication between the two Agencies.  I would have preferred to se the K9 make the arrest, but I wasn't there.