Angels discussing trade for Freese

[CardsFanVegas]

The sentiment I see from most Cards fans I have interacted with is that they have no problem trading Lynn, but hesitate trading Kelly. This makes me want Kelly more than Lynn.

Although at this point the Halos should go all out for both.

 

Mostly because we've seen Lance melt down far too often. 

 

Lance is the victim of the bad inning.   He is usually pretty solid, but he will often have one bad inning where it all falls apart and he turns into mental midget.

 

He's started the last 2 years.  Starts off great, and turns to shit the second half.

 

Kelly - has yet to pitch an entire season in the rotation and did his job this post season.   Didn't seem mentally phased by the pressure.

 

I bet Kelly wouldn't mind coming to Anaheim though, growing up an Angels fan in the area.

Edited November 21, 2013 by CardsFanVegas

[Cdaniel]

I would love to trade Aybar/Bourjos for Freese/Kelly but at this point I would take Lynn and Freese

[CardsFanVegas]

5. He is Arb. eligible in 2015.

 

I think that's 4.  Next year - 2014.  And then 3 arb years.  

[CardsFanVegas]

I would love to trade Aybar/Bourjos for Freese/Kelly but at this point I would take Lynn and Freese

 

I don't think most Cards fans would have a problem with that either.   

 

Seems mutually benefical for both sides.    I think a good trade could be worked out between the two clubs.

[Cdaniel]

I feel like we would be settling though.

[Scott34]

The control is a byproduct of his stuff.  He bounces balls in front of the plate from time to time in large part because of how much movement his pitches create and the fact that he's throwing really freaking hard.   

I was one of 8 people in attendance in Miami on back to back nights and saw him pitch.  The sound his pitches make while in the air is sick -- reminded me of listening to Darren Dreifort and Kevin Brown.   

 

In fact -- people concerned about his walk rate and low K/9 should take a look at Kevin Brown's stats early in his career..   He is IMO one of the best comps for Joe Kelly...   http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/brownke01.shtml  

 

The tools are there, sometimes you have to look and LISTEN for them.

 

Brown is a solid comp if not for the K rate.  Brown was still getting more swings and misses.  I just can't look past the combination of the control problems, lack of Ks, and risky mechanics.

[Scott34]

BTW, if the Angels and Cards were a match, I think it would have happened by now.

[Brent Maguire]

Mostly because we've seen Lance melt down far too often. 

 

Lance is the victim of the bad inning.   He is usually pretty solid, but he will often have one bad inning where it all falls apart and he turns into mental midget.

 

He's started the last 2 years.  Starts off great, and turns to shit the second half.

 

Kelly - has yet to pitch an entire season in the rotation and did his job this post season.   Didn't seem mentally phased by the pressure.

 

I bet Kelly wouldn't mind coming to Anaheim though, growing up an Angels fan in the area.

Sounds very similar to what CJ did his first year here and at times last year. 

[Angel Oracle]

Lynn actually mimics Lackey, one of the kings of the bad inning.

[Inside Pitch]

Brown is a solid comp if not for the K rate.  Brown was still getting more swings and misses.  I just can't look past the combination of the control problems, lack of Ks, and risky mechanics.

 

You didn't actually read what you responded to did you...  or did you not look at the stats?  

 

Kevin Browns career K/9 rate through his age 31 season was 5.4.   Brown didn't post a K/9 above 6.00 until age 28. and followed that up with two seasons of 6.1.   He didn't post a K/9 over even 5.0 until his fourth full season in MLB (age 27) at which point he had a career K/9 rate of 4.9, a BB/9 of 3.1, and a H/9 of 9.0  

 

Joe Kelly currently has a career K/9 of 6.0 at age 25.  Kevin Brown didn't become a strikeout pitcher until age 32 -- for his career he ended up with a K/9 rate of 6.6.   He was NOT getting more swings and misses at the same point of their career -- not even close.   But they both did have those impressive GB rates.

 

Given Kelly's career K/9 rate of 7.5 in the minors it's not difficult to project him to improve his K rate as he matures.  Control is considered a veteran skill, always has been..   You seriously need to take a closer look at numbers.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[tdawg87]

I think that's 4.  Next year - 2014.  And then 3 arb years.  

 

You are correct. I was thinking how many years he had until he was a FA. lol

[Tyler]

If Freese sucks on defense then I want nothing to do with him.

[jshep]

If I recall correctly, Freese was at least solid at 3B prior to this year(which may have something to do with his injuries).

[KevinStockerIsGod]

Freese had a back injury last season, probably didn't help with the defense.

[Hubs]

BTW, if the Angels and Cards were a match, I think it would have happened by now.

Meh. 

 

Perhaps they are trying to get a third team involved to solve multiple issues. Angels need young pitching and third base, can trade OF / 2nd / C. If they traded Aybar they'd need to get a replacement.

 

Personally I'd like to keep Bourjos and sell when his value is higher. Yet, David Freese is also a buy low candidate. And that's fine. 

 

If the Cardinals wanted to get a SS, maybe they could engage the D'Backs to move some pieces around. 

 

Since everyone made fun of my post earlier, because I included Shuck...

 

Angels Trade Peter Bourjos, Erick Aybar to Cardinals for David Freese & Joe Kelly / Lance Lynn / Carlos Martinez. -5 M Salary

Angels Trade Howie Kendrick, Chris Iannetta to the Jays for Aaron Sanchez, JP Arenciba, & Macier Izturis. -10 M salary

Angels Sign Dan Haren to a 2 year contract. + 8 M Salary

Angels Sign Brian Wilson to a 2 year contract + 8 M Salary

Angels Sign Joe Smith to a 3 year contract + 3 M Salary.

Angels Cut Joe Blanton, Non-Tender Tommy Hanson, Non-Tender Jerome Williams, Non-Tender Kevin Jepsen.

 

Net Increase: $5 M.

 

Much better team.

 

CF Mike Trout

RF Kole Calhoun

1B Albert Pujols

LF Josh Hamilton

DH Mark Trumbo

C Hank Conger

3B David Freese

2B Grant Green

SS Macier Izturis

 

SP Jered Weaver

SP CJ Wilson

SP Dan Haren

SP Joe Kelly/Carlos Martinez/Lance Lynn

SP Garrett Richards

 

CL Brian Wilson

RP Ernesto Frieri

RP Joe Smith

RP Sean Burnett

RP Dane De La Rosa

RP Michael Kohn

RP Nick Maronde

 

INF Andrew Romine

INF Luis Jimenez

OF Colin Cowgill/JB Shuck

C JP Arenciba

[WallyWorld]

not like any of our current in-house options at 3B are exactly gold glove caliber.

[Agalloch]

I'd love to have Freese. If we can get Freese/Kelly for Bourjos/Aybar then that's something you have to do if you're Dipoto.

[WallyWorld]

again with Dan Haren??  Hubs, Dipoto traded him away once, and then a couple years later when he inherited him, he let him leave as a FA, and then watched him have a subpar season for another team.  Do you really think he's going to be on Dipoto's listof pitchers to target this offseason? 

[HaloFan85]

I don't know too much about Freese but doesn't he kind of suck at 3B?  At least he'll fit in.

Having not seeing him play on an everyday basis, all you can really go by is his defensive metrics, which all point to, like you said, him sucking, and along with his injury history and the fact he'll be turning 31 in April, I really don't understand why the Angels are considering this trade and are willing to give up Bourjos plus another player (if they cave to St. Louis's alledged demand for more than just Bourjos) to get him.  Makes no sense.

[totdprods]

Maybe Dipoto will resign Haren again just for the opportunity to get rid of him a third time.

Would it surprise you?!?!

[Hubs]

Yep. Haren is the type of pitcher they need to sign. In 2011 with us he averaged 7 innings a start. He will put up 200 IP for this team, something that only CJ wilson did last season. They need a veteran guy to go along with a young guy and Garrett Richards.

 

At a discounted rate, he'll be a steal.

[HaloFan85]

I thought the Dodgers were interested in Haren.  Would be hard to get him at a discounted rate if that's the case

[SoWhat]

Lmao

[Hubs]

The reason they let him go last year was that they would've had to pay him 15.5 M. He was coming off a down year. This year he's not getting 15.5 M per year, he's going to get around 8-9. Likely on a one year deal, maybe a two year deal. Considering this is what Arroyo is also going to get, I'd say fine.

 

Both Haren and Arroyo pitch deep into games, don't walk people and are proven 200 IP starters. Yes any of the Cardinals surplus has better stuff, but pitching isn't all about how hard you throw.

 

They will not be Blanton re-deux. They are not the same type of pitcher. Arroyo does give up HR, but in Cinncinati's bandbox, most high fly balls in Anaheim would be gone. Ditto to Fenway.

 

Marine Layer in Anaheim keeps those in the park.

 

Blanton had issues because he's not a guy who goes deep into games, he's a fringe fifth starter, they gave one too many years and way too much money too.

[tdawg87]

 

 

They will not be Blanton re-deux. They are not the same type of pitcher. Arroyo does give up HR, but in Cinncinati's bandbox, most high fly balls in Anaheim would be gone. Ditto to Fenway.

 

Marine Layer in Anaheim keeps those in the park.

 

 

 

This is exactly what was said about Joe Blanton. The "marine layer" doesn't mean shit when you are serving up meatballs.