Angels discussing trade for Freese

[Inside Pitch]

I am not a Joe Kelly fan at all.

Just curious but why is that?   I understand the statistical arguments against him, I'm just curious what it is you don't like beyond those

 

Joe Kelly reminds me a bit of a young Omar Olivares or rather -- the pitcher Omar Olivares was in the minors and could have been had he not been so stubborn.  OO had ridiculously good sinker - it was such an effective pitch he could have thrown 90% of the time and had success with it..  which he did in the minors.   His problem was that he wanted to throw his other offerings and those tended to get hit with great frequency.   His upside is Kevin Brown, 

 

Dude has control issues -- but that 94-96 MPH sinker is pretty impressive.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[VariousCrap]

Two major disagreements in a row. Cool ;-)

 

I woudn't trade Bourjos for Freese straight up. If we're taking Bourjos or Aybar, the Angels would need to be getting a Kelly or Lynn in return.

 

 

Haha...we can work on this.

 

What do you think it would take for the Angels to get Freese and Lynn/Kelly?

[m0nkey]

Um...how about the fact that it would take more than just "on of their studs" to even start talks about Trout.

 

For example, if the Cards offered Wacha for Trout, Jerry would laugh for a few hours straight.

He was addressing the angels getting their young pitchers, not the cardinals trading for trout though

[Angel Oracle]

Freese = GMJHGH = ONE good season in 2012 (and one great WS game 6 in 2011) and in his early 30s.

 

We had better be only giving up someone like Snyder and maybe Maronde. 

[Stradling]

Relax AO it's not like he's getting a seven year deal. He's under club control and can go year to year until Cowart is available.

[Cardinals]

Like I said before I would trade Trout for Wacha, Martinez, Miller and either Rosenthal or Tavarez. Anything short of that, no thank you.

Team A:  The best all round position player in baseball. 

Team B: The best pitching core in baseball. 

 

Who wins more games in the next 10 years? 

 

 

.....The Cardinals are in way better shape going into next season and the season after that and the season after that. If the Angels didn't consider just Wacha, Miller, and Martinez for Trout they would be out of their mind. 

[Mudville]

Not quite as dumb as suggesting that the Angels try to acquire a young pitcher from the Cardinals without giving up Trout. Trout is the only thing the Angels can bring to the table if Martinez, Rosenthal, Kelly, Miller, or Wacha are included in the negotiation. Hands down. Lynn is a different story. 

Not or but and Wacha. That would be almost a package that would be considered.

 

Pitchers are once every 5 days for starters. Individually they are not more than 35 games that they can impact. You don't trade the best player in baseball for 35 games of help.

[Angel Oracle]

Relax AO it's not like he's getting a seven year deal. He's under club control and can go year to year until Cowart is available.

I get that being the big difference between he and GMJHGH (money).

But otherwise, I hope no one is expecting him to hit like he did in 2012.

Being in his early 30s and not with a lot accomplished outside of one WS game and one season, that naturally is a concern beyond a year or so.   I sure hope Cowart is ready by early/mid-2015.

[Inside Pitch]

Hey, let's trade a CF coming off an injury-riddled season to the Cardinals for SP whose Wins total are deceptive.

 

speaking of Jimmy, is he (aside from Trout) the best player the Angels have ever produced? I think he is criminally underated. He was really, really good as an Angel and more or less a GOD with STL. A Gold Glove CF who can OPS 1.000? So sick.

 

Jim Edmonds, or Troy Glaus would be my picks for most talented players to come up through the system prior to Trout.    

 

Troy Glaus was an amazing talent -- even with the Injuries he managed to put up a very solid career.  

[Angel Oracle]

Team A:  The best all round position player in baseball. 

Team B: The best pitching core in baseball. 

 

Who wins more games in the next 10 years? 

 

 

.....The Cardinals are in way better shape going into next season and the season after that and the season after that. If the Angels didn't consider just Wacha, Miller, and Martinez for Trout they would be out of their mind. 

Those three plus Rosenthal, or no deal

 

Those 3 will make close to 100 starts plus Rosenthal will get some 50 closing chances = 150 games.

That pretty much equals Trout's every day impact.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Angel Oracle

[WallyWorld]

generally speaking I'm not crazy about trading for Freese, given that he's on the wrong side of 30, has had 1 good season 2 years ago, and is going to start getting pricey soon.  All depends on who we would be giving up though.

[CardsFanVegas]

Freese - acquired in a trade by the Padres for Jimmy Edmonds who the Cards acquired from the Angels.  

 

I don't want to see the Cards trade Freese just yet.   The argument is that Matt Carpenter will move to 3B and Kolten Wong will take over 2B.    Wong has yet to prove he can hit above .200 in the MLB and while he probably will figure it out, if he doesn't, the Cards would be screwed.  

 

Freese struggled big time last year, but has the potential to turn it around.

 

The piece on the Angels that the Cardinals need is Aybar.    But who do the Halos have to play SS in his place?    You guys want Pete Kozma? 

[HaloCory22]

Just checked out Freese's stats. I didn't realize he was such a terrible fielder. Miguel Cabrera was a better 3B in 2013. Wow.

[Inside Pitch]

I think he might be. For about six years there he was a Hall of Fame caliber player.  Actually, Edmonds is one of those players who probably won't make the HoF, but is better than many players that are in (e.g. Tony Perez and Jim Rice). Jimmy had a HoF player's peak, but not quite the longevity and lost a fair amount of time to injury. But a bit better health and we're looking at 450 HR and 1500 RBI rather than 393 and 1199, which would make all the difference for HoF voters.

 

Its interesting because Griffey Jr., a career 136 OPS+ guy who played in the Kingdome and hit a lot of HRs is likely a sure fire first ballot HOFer.  While Jim Edmonds, a career 132 OPS+ guy who played alongside Griffey and even made the switch from AL to NL with him will be viewed as simply worthy of the Hall of Very Good.  

 

Thus is the power of the HR

[HaloCory22]

Freese - acquired in a trade by the Padres for Jimmy Edmonds who the Cards acquired from the Angels.  

 

I don't want to see the Cards trade Freese just yet.   The argument is that Matt Carpenter will move to 3B and Kolten Wong will take over 2B.    Wong has yet to prove he can hit above .200 in the MLB and while he probably will figure it out, if he doesn't, the Cards would be screwed.  

 

Freese struggled big time last year, but has the potential to turn it around.

 

The piece on the Angels that the Cardinals need is Aybar.    But who do the Halos have to play SS in his place?    You guys want Pete Kozma? 

Hey now! No need to threaten us like that!

[Jason]

This team needs defensive upgrades too. No thank you on Freese or any player that we can just hope that they turn it around. We can do that with what we got already.

[405z06]

Those three plus Rosenthal, or no deal

 

Those 3 will make close to 100 starts plus Rosenthal will get some 50 closing chances = 150 games.

That pretty much equals Trout's every day impact.

 

That math is a little fuzzy. 

 

I feel silly even responding because the idea of trading Trout is ridiculous. As is the idea of the Cardinals trading Miller AND Wacha AND Rosenthal AND Martinez.

 

But counting the number of games each player plays ignores that the SP's go 6-8 innings in each game, where as the position player only gets to bat 1/9th of the time.

 

A great SP is just as valuable to a team overall as a great position player.

[tennischmp]

If they wanted an average 3B they should have kept Callaspo

[Inside Pitch]

I'd rather have Callaspo back than have Freese.   Heck last year Callaspo basically WAS Freese and people hated him.  BTW..  if true.... this rumor tells you everything you ever wanted to know about what the Angels think of Green as a possible 3B.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[Cardinals]

freese, matt adams, and kelly for pujols and $200mil to pay him is clearly the most logical outcome of these rumors. The cardinals need a cheap DH to plug into their AAA team next spring

[Stradling]

I understand the wrong side of 30 argument but not as it relates to acquiring Freeze. For one he is going to be 31 on opening day. Also it's a year to year type deal with Freeze. If you don't want to sign a 32 year old to a 5 or 7 year deal I get that. But getting a 31 year old isn't that big a deal. Hunter may not have been the greatest investment but none of that was because of his age, he was very solid his last year here.

[VariousCrap]

A great SP is just as valuable to a team overall as a great position player.

 

 

 

Not true at all.

[Cardinals]

That math is a little fuzzy. 

 

I feel silly even responding because the idea of trading Trout is ridiculous. As is the idea of the Cardinals trading Miller AND Wacha AND Rosenthal AND Martinez.

 

But counting the number of games each player plays ignores that the SP's go 6-8 innings in each game, where as the position player only gets to bat 1/9th of the time.

 

A great SP is just as valuable to a team overall as a great position player.

one crazy trade idea = one crazy trade idea

 

that math is not fuzzy

[VariousCrap]

I'd rather have Callaspo back than have Freese.   Heck last year Callaspo basically WAS Freese and people hated him.  BTW..  if true.... this rumor tells you everything you ever wanted to know about what the Angels think of Green as a possible 3B.

 

 

 

No...I think it tells us that Howie is gone and Green will be at 2B.

[Angel Oracle]

That math is a little fuzzy. 

 

I feel silly even responding because the idea of trading Trout is ridiculous. As is the idea of the Cardinals trading Miller AND Wacha AND Rosenthal AND Martinez.

 

But counting the number of games each player plays ignores that the SP's go 6-8 innings in each game, where as the position player only gets to bat 1/9th of the time.

 

A great SP is just as valuable to a team overall as a great position player.

Not disagreeing necessarily, but Trout is approaching being a once in a generation player.