Ohtani's future contract

[Duren, Duren]

One thing that we hear about Ohtani's mindset is that he wants to be the best player in history. Repeated again last night on the Yankee broadcast. That's a personal goal that shapes everything he does 24/7 according to multiple anecdotal stories. Not necessarily a team focus, though I would think they are associated. 

So just for the sake of argument, where would be the most conducive place/team for him to continue building his legend as the best player in history? And does that objective necessarily have to be linked with winning a championship?  

I think that his lasting legacy would have to include at least one championship. People still cite Ted Williams for never winning one. Especially when compared to Dimaggio. So a team title will definitely be a factor in his reputation. But not absolutely if his personal numbers are awesome enough to stand unique in history.

With Ohtani, I see a shorter contract, or one with escape clauses. Why? It would allow him the opportunity to change teams if things weren't going the way he wants after three or four years. Which could be team or personal factors yet to be determined. Of course he would still sign for the biggest deal in history. Pro rated if short term. Besides the money, it's a status symbol. And another sign of his status as the best current player. Over time, part of his legend will be the record setting contracts he signs. But not necessarily just one more for the rest of his career. 

If his obsession with being the best player in history is true then everything he does has that as an ultimate goal. And his team will have to facilitate that pursuit and accommodate him as he decides the best way forward.

 

 

[Angelsjunky]

^One factor to consider in the above is media pressure. You folks in SoCal--especially Orange County--are pretty chill; not so much Yankees fans and beat writers.

I hate to say it but if I'm Ohtani, I probably want to play for the Dodgers. The Giants and maybe Mariners have some temptation, but not as much as the Dodgers. That said, the Angels do have "home field advantage." Ohtani would probably rather stay in Anaheim and win with the Angels (and Trout), if he feels like they'll win.

So we're back where we started: The Angels can probably re-sign Ohtani if both things are true:

1. They equal anyone else's offer (or come very close)
2. He feels like they have a good chance of winning

I think Arte will oblige with the first, so he (and the Angels) have to convince Ohtani of the second. A good run for the rest of the year is a huge part of that. Even if they fall short of the postseason, if they're close--say, 85+ games--he might be more likely to re-up, especially if Arte and Minasian can convince him that they're going to continue to improve the club.

Winning two of the last three games pushes the needle a bit, but the next couple weeks will really decide a lot. But at this point, I don't see them trading Ohtani unless they collapse. They're going to try to make a run for a wildcard and bolster their case for keeping Ohtani.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Angelsjunky

[Angels 1961]

Wherever Ohtani ends up I will wish him well. Halo fans had the most talented ever to play this game on Angels. Angels have had ample time to put a winner on the field (this year not over). Injuries, bad FA signings, farm system, managers, coaching staff, owner whatever Angels did not get it done. So, Mr. Ohtani good luck with any team you end up with.

[Angels in 2030]

The team signing him in FA will regret paying so much.  Unless they win the WS with him contributing in that first half of the contract -- then it's worth it obviously. 

But the Angels are not winning in WS in the foreseeable future.  If they resign him, it'll be yet another anchor on the team preventing them from putting a real winning team on the field.  But the owner will make money off of him -- that's all someone like Arte cares about though.

[Angelsfan1984]

I don’t think he’s going to make 50-60m per. He’s not stupid. If legacy is what he wants and winning is what he wants, then he knows that having a player making an amount that could help round out a team would be counter intuitive to what he wants. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Offer him whatever massive amount with the first two years blowing him away, like 75 mill a year. Then give him an opt out after that.

Still young enough to sign a massive deal somewhere else, gives him time to see of he wants to stay for real, but knows he can leave really soon, etc.

[Blarg]

3 hours ago, T.G. said:

I think people get too caught up in titles.  @Jeff Fletcher has pointed this out numerous times.  Titles don't matter, results do.

Titles are the designation of rank in a corporation. Minasian is a General Manager and that role is subservient to anyone with a VP title or Kuhl who is the Chairman. Right now there is no one in the Angels front office with a VP title that has a baseball operations background. 

Titles matter. 

[Sully151]

Ohtani is making $65 million this year. $35 million from endorsements. Those endorsements aren’t going anywhere anytime soon. 
 

How much money does a supposedly humble guy from Japan need? If he goes to the Dodgers or Yankees, those endorsements might go up along with the $50 million contract they would pay, he could make $100 million a year. That’s just crazy.

I love watching him play, but am torn over whether the Angels should sign him. If they only win one WS over the course of his contract, is it worth it?

I think this season has been tough on the team. They are all playing too hard, putting more pressure on winning in order to resign Ohtani than I think they usually would. I am sure it is an air of stress over the heads of everyone in the organization.

Like I said, I love watching him play, but I also like watching an entire team that is playing well. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

A other downer is OhOppe getting hurt...

Not just how it hurts the team, but he seemed to be Ohtanis catcher to start the year. And was hitting. 

Couldn't have hurt if they had time to bond.

[Justin]

1 hour ago, Sully151 said:

If they only win one WS over the course of his contract, is it worth it?

Hell yes. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

What would you estimate his contract if he played one way?

 

Same bat but didn't pitch. Same pitcher but didn't bat?

 

Hard to say on the hitting side because he'd a DH. He could absolutely play 1B, or the corner OF spots. I wouldn't be surprised if he could play any spot.

[Warfarin]

7 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

^One factor to consider in the above is media pressure. You folks in SoCal--especially Orange County--are pretty chill; not so much Yankees fans and beat writers.

I hate to say it but if I'm Ohtani, I probably want to play for the Dodgers. The Giants and maybe Mariners have some temptation, but not as much as the Dodgers. That said, the Angels do have "home field advantage." Ohtani would probably rather stay in Anaheim and win with the Angels (and Trout), if he feels like they'll win.

So we're back where we started: The Angels can probably re-sign Ohtani if both things are true:

1. They equal anyone else's offer (or come very close)
2. He feels like they have a good chance of winning

I think Arte will oblige with the first, so he (and the Angels) have to convince Ohtani of the second. A good run for the rest of the year is a huge part of that. Even if they fall short of the postseason, if they're close--say, 85+ games--he might be more likely to re-up, especially if Arte and Minasian can convince him that they're going to continue to improve the club.

Winning two of the last three games pushes the needle a bit, but the next couple weeks will really decide a lot. But at this point, I don't see them trading Ohtani unless they collapse. They're going to try to make a run for a wildcard and bolster their case for keeping Ohtani.

As @Duren, Duren mentioned above you, Ohtani has a strong desire to be the best player in MLB history.  So I am assuming part of his calculus will be, which organization can help him further advance his skills the most, so he can be remembered as the best player who ever played the game?  I am guessing that might take precedence even over winning a title, although I am sure he would never publicly state that.

So in his eyes, which organization is best equipped to provide him with the resources to be the best player he can be, while also providing him with a strong shot of winning a title?

I do not think that is the Mariners, Yankees, etc.  I think the only two teams who will compete with us are the Dodgers and Giants (assuming he prefers the west coast), but I think the Dodgers are probably the favorites, simply due to their track record with maximizing player production while also being in the race year in and year out.

If the Dodgers for some reason feel he does not fit their budgetary vision, though, then I think he stays here.

[Jeff Fletcher]

5 hours ago, Blarg said:

Titles are the designation of rank in a corporation. Minasian is a General Manager and that role is subservient to anyone with a VP title or Kuhl who is the Chairman. Right now there is no one in the Angels front office with a VP title that has a baseball operations background. 

Titles matter. 

What I mean is that whoever is the top person in baseball operations does the same job, no matter if his title is PBO or GM or King of Baseball.
 

Perry Minasian has the exact same job and exact same responsibilities as Andrew Friedman. 

Where it matters is when you’re trying to hire someone from another team. Brandon Gomes is the Dodgers “GM” (which means he’s really the Dodgers assistant GM). If the Angels wanted to hire him, the Dodgers could prevent it unless they’re giving him a promotion to PBO or something similar. 

[AngelsFanSince86]

This is a crazy hypothetical that I don't believe will happen, but what if Ohtani pulled a Tom Brady and decided to re sign with the Angels under market? Essentially, sign a contract with several opt outs in the case the Angels don't uphold their end of the bargain. $20M or $25M per year with the assumption that the Angels will do what it takes to build a winner (use the extra $25-30M per year elsewhere).

Ohtani makes so much just from endorsements. If he cares more about his legacy than anything else, it would make sense for him to go this route. He'll still make more than anyone in MLB history per year between contract money and endorsements. It would actually add to his legacy to go that route.

That being said, I still think the Angels should trade him and anyone else they can. Currently worried they will win just enough to convince themselves they are contenders, only to suck the rest of the season. 

Edited July 20, 2023 by AngelsFanSince86

[Stradling]

10 hours ago, Skips said:

The team signing him in FA will regret paying so much.  Unless they win the WS with him contributing in that first half of the contract -- then it's worth it obviously. 

But the Angels are not winning in WS in the foreseeable future.  If they resign him, it'll be yet another anchor on the team preventing them from putting a real winning team on the field.  But the owner will make money off of him -- that's all someone like Arte cares about though.

So fucking dumb. “All he cares about”. It’s simply bullshit. 

[T.G.]

13 hours ago, Blarg said:

Titles matter

Apparently not.

[m0nkey]

20 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Blarg doesn't want Ohtani,  confirmed 

Blarg hates Asians, confirmed 

[T.G.]

20 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Blarg doesn't want Ohtani,  confirmed 

 

8 minutes ago, m0nkey said:

Blarg hates Asians, confirmed 

To be fair, blarg hates everyone.

[Taylor]

2 minutes ago, T.G. said:

 

To be fair, blarg hates everyone.

No Lives Matter?

[Angels in 2030]

7 hours ago, Stradling said:

So fucking dumb. “All he cares about”. It’s simply bullshit. 

Calm down...it's only a game.  But i guess the truth hurts you huh.  

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, Skips said:

Calm down...it's only a game.  But i guess the truth hurts you huh.  

I am calm. You have zero idea how easy it is to call ignorant clowns ignorant. I can do it without cracking a smile or raising an eyebrow. I probably sent that reply at my resting heart rate. But no the truth seldom hurts. Ignorance hurts. 

[BTH]

11 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Where it matters is when you’re trying to hire someone from another team. Brandon Gomes is the Dodgers “GM” (which means he’s really the Dodgers assistant GM). If the Angels wanted to hire him, the Dodgers could prevent it unless they’re giving him a promotion to PBO or something similar. 

And, when hiring a top baseball executive, Arte Moreno hasn’t shown a willingness to give someone the PBO title in order to entice a person like Brandon Gomes.

[Stradling]

Just now, Trendon said:

And, when hiring a top baseball executive, Arte Moreno hasn’t shown a willingness to give someone the PBO title in order to entice a person like Brandon Gomes.

You think Brandon Gomes is a difference maker?

[Ron Mexico]

13 minutes ago, Stradling said:

You think Brandon Gomes is a difference maker?

Theo Epstein is.

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Ron Mexico said:

Theo Epstein is.

Yes.