Trading Ohtani

[Farmbuildingfan]

Trading partners are probably researching how to give up the least for Ohtani, and someone will succeed at screwing Arte and us fans

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

I think we should ask, if we were in contention, say 3 games ahead of the Rangers, what Angels prospects would we be willing to give up in order to keep Ohtani?

[AngelsFanSince86]

On 7/8/2023 at 4:38 PM, Torridd said:

So many want him traded here. For those who want this, is the reason that you think he's going to leave or do you think the team will improve with his replacements?

To specifically answer your question, nobody wants to trade Ohtani if he plans to stay in Anaheim. But the thought is that he's likely to walk. To miss the playoffs and also miss a chance to trade the greatest mid season acquisition in MLB history would be something only a poorly run organization would allow.

If Ohtani won't commit, at the very least, in a, "I want to stay here if you are willing to pay, but I do need to test the market to see my value" type of agreement, then they need to trade him.

I said it on other threads from a couple weeks ago. They needed to go at least .500 against the d backs, dodgers, and Padres to hold onto the playoff/buyer mentality. They absolutely failed that. Their schedule is rough over the next month and I expect they will fall under .500. This is not a winning team and unless you are 100% that you can sign Ohtani, he needs to be traded to make the team better in the future. 

If they don't trade him and don't sign him, it will go down as one of the worst mistakes in recent history. Just adds to the rendon, Pujols, Hamilton, Upton, Wells, etc mistakes. At some point they need to start making smart/tough decisions. We'll see if that starts this season.

Now, if they don't trade him and then also sign him, that's the best case scenario (well best case would be to trade him, but then also sign him). If that happens I will fully support it. I will also withhold my judgement on the situation until the offseason plays out.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Personally I say trade him to either TB or Atlanta so he can get a ring. And get that out of his system.

Then offer him 800 mill next year to come back.

I'd also make sure Trout and the rest of the guys keep texting him when he's a brave/ray, telling him hoe much better the weather and mexican food is here.

[Warfarin]

40 minutes ago, AngelsFanSince86 said:

To specifically answer your question, nobody wants to trade Ohtani if he plans to stay in Anaheim. But the thought is that he's likely to walk. To miss the playoffs and also miss a chance to trade the greatest mid season acquisition in MLB history would be something only a poorly run organization would allow.

If Ohtani won't commit, at the very least, in a, "I want to stay here if you are willing to pay, but I do need to test the market to see my value" type of agreement, then they need to trade him.

I said it on other threads from a couple weeks ago. They needed to go at least .500 against the d backs, dodgers, and Padres to hold onto the playoff/buyer mentality. They absolutely failed that. Their schedule is rough over the next month and I expect they will fall under .500. This is not a winning team and unless you are 100% that you can sign Ohtani, he needs to be traded to make the team better in the future. 

If they don't trade him and don't sign him, it will go down as one of the worst mistakes in recent history. Just adds to the rendon, Pujols, Hamilton, Upton, Wells, etc mistakes. At some point they need to start making smart/tough decisions. We'll see if that starts this season.

Now, if they don't trade him and then also sign him, that's the best case scenario (well best case would be to trade him, but then also sign him). If that happens I will fully support it. I will also withhold my judgement on the situation until the offseason plays out.

This.

It is hard to say how much of an emphasis Ohtani places on a variety of factors.  Anecdotally, it seems that by far,  his #1 preference is to play for a team who is winning consistently.  Even if we went on a tear, made the playoffs, and got eliminated in the first round - would that be enough to convince Ohtani to stay?  I don't know - I suspect not, given that this team has largely been a non-contender for quite a few years now.  

As much as I'd like to think that Ohtani would stay, I feel that by far the most likely outcome is he signs with the Dodgers, given that they are a west coast team (believed to be a strong preference of his when he first came over) and are a perennial contender.  If the FO believes Ohtani is going to leave, then they really need to go ahead and trade him, because they can likely still get some rather good prospects in return for him, as opposed to letting him leave for just a draft pick.

[Revad]

Or keep Ohtani unless he asks to be traded and trade all the expiring contracts other than him.  If Artie doesn’t agree to trade him, we get what is likely a farewell tour with Ohtani plus a few decent prospects.  

[Torridd]

51 minutes ago, AngelsFanSince86 said:

To specifically answer your question, nobody wants to trade Ohtani if he plans to stay in Anaheim. But the thought is that he's likely to walk. To miss the playoffs and also miss a chance to trade the greatest mid season acquisition in MLB history would be something only a poorly run organization would allow.

If Ohtani won't commit, at the very least, in a, "I want to stay here if you are willing to pay, but I do need to test the market to see my value" type of agreement, then they need to trade him.

I said it on other threads from a couple weeks ago. They needed to go at least .500 against the d backs, dodgers, and Padres to hold onto the playoff/buyer mentality. They absolutely failed that. Their schedule is rough over the next month and I expect they will fall under .500. This is not a winning team and unless you are 100% that you can sign Ohtani, he needs to be traded to make the team better in the future. 

If they don't trade him and don't sign him, it will go down as one of the worst mistakes in recent history. Just adds to the rendon, Pujols, Hamilton, Upton, Wells, etc mistakes. At some point they need to start making smart/tough decisions. We'll see if that starts this season.

Now, if they don't trade him and then also sign him, that's the best case scenario (well best case would be to trade him, but then also sign him). If that happens I will fully support it. I will also withhold my judgement on the situation until the offseason plays out.

Thanks, but I think a lot of people here want to trade him even if he wants to stay because they think the team will be better being rebuilt. 

[jsnpritchett]

20 minutes ago, Revad said:

Or keep Ohtani unless he asks to be traded and trade all the expiring contracts other than him.  If Artie doesn’t agree to trade him, we get what is likely a farewell tour with Ohtani plus a few decent prospects.  

They're not getting many decent prospects for Renfroe.  Urshela obviously won't be traded, since he's out for the year.  Moore might fetch a live body if he comes back and pitches well, but I doubt he'll get you anyone with any real upside.  Loup gets you something slightly north of a bag of balls, maybe.  Devenski, same as Loup.  That's about it, really.  If you're counting Moustakas and/or Escobar, again, not gonna get much, if anything, for them, especially given how they've hit since coming to the Angels.

Edited July 10, 2023 by jsnpritchett

[Revad]

25 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

They're not getting many decent prospects for Renfroe.  Urshela obviously won't be traded, since he's out for the year.  Moore might fetch a live body if he comes back and pitches well, but I doubt he'll get you anyone with any real upside.  Loup gets you something slightly north of a bag of balls, maybe.  Devenski, same as Loup.  That's about it, really.  If you're counting Moustakas and/or Escobar, again, not gonna get much, if anything, for them, especially given how they've hit since coming to the Angels.

True enough.  It would be best to trade Ohtani but I think this is what we’ll be left with.  

[Warfarin]

5 minutes ago, Revad said:

True enough.  It would be best to trade Ohtani but I think this is what we’ll be left with.  

Nobody wants to trade a superstar, but I suspect by now they probably have a pretty decent gauge on whether he intends to stay or not.  If they feel he is indeed leaving, then I think you can still probably get 2 top 100 prospects for him in a trade.  The Dodgers probably wouldn't part with Miller, but you can likely get their next best SP prospect, someone like Busch (who would probably immediately take Ohtani's DH role and can also play 1B/3B), and some other solid pieces as well.  Not "fair' value, but several MLB-ready prospects is certainly better than a draft pick.

[Revad]

Sixteen games left before the trade deadline, a game below .500 and five games out in the WC.  If they go 7-9 or worse and lose much more ground they need to trade him.  I wonder if they will announce/leak they are listening to offers?

Edited July 10, 2023 by Revad

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Personally I say trade him to either TB or Atlanta so he can get a ring. And get that out of his system.

Then offer him 800 mill next year to come back.

I'd also make sure Trout and the rest of the guys keep texting him when he's a brave/ray, telling him hoe much better the weather and mexican food is here.

I referenced this before, but it'd actually be really awesome if the Angels have some kind of agreement with Ohtani such that they can flip him for some really good prospects, let him pursue a title this year, then re-sign him to a huge deal in the offseason (similar to the Yankees and Chapman).  Then not only do you get to keep Ohtani, but you also get 1-2 top 100 prospects and a few other solid prospects too.  Highly unlikely, but that'd be a pretty cool outcome.

[Angels 1961]

Trade Ohtani get what you can. They have not won with him and Trout. Angels have tried to build a winner around them and have failed. Injuries have played big part of that this year. 2024 looks like halos should try and build around young players they already have. I would also trade halo closer CE. He is at his highest trade value now. Add to the rebuild and if anyone will take Tyler Anderson (many teams looking for starters) jump at it.

[REDneck]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

I referenced this before, but it'd actually be really awesome if the Angels have some kind of agreement with Ohtani such that they can flip him for some really good prospects, let him pursue a title this year, then re-sign him to a huge deal in the offseason (similar to the Yankees and Chapman).  Then not only do you get to keep Ohtani, but you also get 1-2 top 100 prospects and a few other solid prospects too.  Highly unlikely, but that'd be a pretty cool outcome.

Why would this remotely be a scenario?

[Warfarin]

6 hours ago, REDneck said:

Why would this remotely be a scenario?

Well, I guess the best case scenario is we go on a run, win the title this year, and so on..

But given injuries and the current condition of the team, then I think the above would be the next best case scenario - you add multiple top prospects for "loaning" Ohtani out for 2 months, then get him back for many years thereafter as well as the prospects you just acquired.  

[oldguy]

Trade Ohtani to improve the team, but offer Ippei a half a million to stay.  Shohei will miss him so much he'll have no choice but to return.

[bloodbrother]

I do think he's leaving because the team hasn't even been .500 once since he got here and he's quoted as saying he wants to win. Obviously, that hasn't come close to happening since joining the Angels and this season looks to be spiraling as well. Another reason is that there's no indication that we can expect Arte to blow past the luxury threhsold when it comes to payroll, and that will need to happen if they did manage to lock Ohtani up to some insane extension if this team is gonna be elevated to being an actual contender IMO

You don't lose a talent like Ohtani and get better of course, but it's been 6 years to figure things out and this org hasn't done it. Clock has struck midnight and they now gotta make a tough decision on either losing him for a comp pick as a FA or getting whatever they can at the deadline in a trade and hope one or 2 of those pieces can become all-star caliber players for them in the future

[Duren, Duren]

Another angle.

Ohtani has only known the Angels organization. Obviously there's a comfort zone there, but over time it's possible that he just wants a change. Not even necessarily from the losing history every season of his time here, but just for a fresh perspective. New team mates, coaches, a different environment. Probably one with a winning nucleus and currently in contention. 

If he goes to a new team at the deadline it could work both ways.

He may fit in ideally and relish being on a team contending at a higher level. As well as seeing new faces and places. On the other hand, he will be expected to be the X factor and immediately upgrade the team into World Series favorite. If he/they don't meet expectations the move won't be a success. Pressure he's never had before in MLB.

As well, a new environment for a few months may make Ohtani realize that the Angels really do provide a personal comfort zone, all things considered. And if the money is right he 'd prefer being part of a long term process that will eventually lead to a championship quality team. 

The latter possibility does seem remote, but not out of the question. Stranger things have happened, though I wouldn't bet on a return once he's actually played elsewhere.

[greginpsca]

Angels will have to balance whether the team would be better off trading him or keeping him, and getting a compensation pick. Which way do you receive the best yield? 

[Angels 1961]

2 hours ago, oldguy said:

Trade Ohtani to improve the team, but offer Ippei a half a million to stay.  Shohei will miss him so much he'll have no choice but to return.

Ohtani could out bid halos for Ippei.

[Angels 1961]

Is this the unofficial trade Ohtani thread?

[Blarg]

On 7/9/2023 at 12:11 PM, Farmbuildingfan said:

I hate to see him go, but the odds of signing him are so small that trading him will at least gets you a decent return.

I predict the Angels keep him, then he signs elsewhere, and the Angels lose him for nothing.

They get a draft pick. It is a B pick since the Angels are a top 10 payroll team. 

[Erstad Grit]

On 7/9/2023 at 3:28 PM, Stradling said:

Hell Ohtani won’t generate the $10 million he will get paid the last two months of the season. 

For a playoff team he would

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, Erstad Grit said:

For a playoff team he would

How? 

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

How? 

How many people in Japan are going to tune into Ohtani playoff games? I think that’s a huge multiplier potentially. I have no idea what that’s worth of course.