Details on why Shohei Ohtani was not traded

[cals]

11 minutes ago, stormngt said:

1.  Is is false logic.  There is no causation that a player traded will not go back to team that traded them.  The real reason is probably because the player or team was not expecting them to return.

2.  I agree a second MVP would not make a significant increase in trade value.  However, I do not see the trade value dropping too much for an extra 8 weeks.

3.  Agree with your premise.  However, if a player is intending to go FA you have no choice but to trade him.  And AROD was pretty good after leaving Seattle.  His decline was after his yankee extension.  Noone complains about Seattle letting him walk because Texas outbid them while Arid was FA.

Look bro, I’m the smartest guy here.  Arguing with me is futile.

[Jeff Fletcher]

My 2 cents: It’s easy to sit here and say “the Angels will win with the prospects they get for Ohtani” but do you really think that’s a certainty? Prospects are just prospects. 
 

The fact is the Angels are in a spot where it’s hard to win with Ohtani and it’s hard to win without Ohtani and a bunch of prospects in his place. 
 

If you have a choice of two uncertain paths, which one would you pick?

[Jason]

6 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

My 2 cents: It’s easy to sit here and say “the Angels will win with the prospects they get for Ohtani” but do you really think that’s a certainty? Prospects are just prospects. 
 

The fact is the Angels are in a spot where it’s hard to win with Ohtani and it’s hard to win without Ohtani and a bunch of prospects in his place. 
 

If you have a choice of two uncertain paths, which one would you pick?

Ohtani has proven himself so that’s my pick. 

[Swordsman78]

7 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

My 2 cents: It’s easy to sit here and say “the Angels will win with the prospects they get for Ohtani” but do you really think that’s a certainty? Prospects are just prospects. 
 

The fact is the Angels are in a spot where it’s hard to win with Ohtani and it’s hard to win without Ohtani and a bunch of prospects in his place. 
 

If you have a choice of two uncertain paths, which one would you pick?

I would take Ohtani and expect the other guys on the team to step up and stay relatively healthy in 2023

[cals]

4 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

I would take Ohtani and expect the other guys on the team to step up and stay relatively healthy in 2023

That’s not a reasonable expectation with this team.

[Swordsman78]

1 minute ago, cals said:

That’s not a reasonable expectation with this team.

Possibly, but its all we have. (sobbing)

[Angels 1961]

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

My 2 cents: It’s easy to sit here and say “the Angels will win with the prospects they get for Ohtani” but do you really think that’s a certainty? Prospects are just prospects. 
 

The fact is the Angels are in a spot where it’s hard to win with Ohtani and it’s hard to win without Ohtani and a bunch of prospects in his place. 
 

If you have a choice of two uncertain paths, which one would you pick?

Save the money and start over. Will Ohtani want to stay? I think he will test FA and Dodgers are waiting. 

[Angels 1961]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

Ohtani has proven himself so that’s my pick. 

What if Ohtani wants to test free agency do you let him walk?

[Jason]

17 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

What if Ohtani wants to test free agency do you let him walk?

No

[BTH]

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

If you have a choice of two uncertain paths, which one would you pick?

I’d prefer that the GM gets to make that call over the owner, since it’s supposed to be the GM’s job to make that call.

[stormngt]

3 hours ago, cals said:

Look bro, I’m the smartest guy here.  Arguing with me is futile.

My bad.  I am the dumbest

[Angels 1961]

34 minutes ago, Jason said:

No

Angels need to find out as soon this off season.

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

3 hours ago, Swordsman78 said:

I would take Ohtani and expect the other guys on the team to step up and stay relatively healthy in 2023

And that’s been same narrative for years now…prospects and health…it’s not working. 

[Swordsman78]

2 hours ago, Angels_Make_Me_Drink said:

And that’s been same narrative for years now…prospects and health…it’s not working. 

The alternative is bank on the big boys getting hurt again and have a fire sale to save $ and start compiling  a roster that may (may) possibly be fun to watch in 2030.

[Jay]

3 hours ago, Swordsman78 said:

The alternative is bank on the big boys getting hurt again and have a fire sale to save $ and start compiling  a roster that may (may) possibly be fun to watch in 2030.

Welcome to being an Angels fan.

[ThisismineScios]

10 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

That’s because none of this stuff comes from the Angels. It’s from other teams and their impression of what the Angels are doing, which may or may be based on what the Angels actually told them. 

This definitely wasn’t a critique, just something I’ve noticed. And that makes sense. In that light, much of the speculation could be exaggerated. It sure does rile up fans though…

To Jeff’s point, this is why I hope they re-sign him. Rebuilding in baseball games 4-5 years and is no guarantee. Pirates? Marlins? Royals? Their prospects are arriving but their records aren’t improving. Give me years of Trout and Ohtani and trying over and over to fill out the lineup with the right pieces. Not for entertainment—because having an Ace and 2-3 in your lineup set is a plus. It doesn’t mean we are out of money to spend, it means we have to spend wisely and also develop O’Hoppe, Sonny D, Neto, Rengifo, Jackson, Placencia, Adell, Moniak, Blakely. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

10 hours ago, Trendon said:

I’d prefer that the GM gets to make that call over the owner, since it’s supposed to be the GM’s job to make that call.

I understand that sentiment but it’s probably unrealistic in this case. And I don’t mean “this case” being Arte. I mean Ohtani. He’s big business. He would be for any team. 

[Angel Oracle]

19 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

My 2 cents: It’s easy to sit here and say “the Angels will win with the prospects they get for Ohtani” but do you really think that’s a certainty? Prospects are just prospects. 
 

The fact is the Angels are in a spot where it’s hard to win with Ohtani and it’s hard to win without Ohtani and a bunch of prospects in his place. 
 

If you have a choice of two uncertain paths, which one would you pick?

I get that. 

The question is, what to do if he doesn’t sign a new contract during the off-season?

Risk losing Ohtani and get just a sandwich round draft pick?

Trade him in July, knowing the return may not be as good as it would be in the upcoming off-season?

Trade him in the upcoming off-season, where they would get more value than a sandwich round draft pick?

 

[Angels 1961]

6 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I understand that sentiment but it’s probably unrealistic in this case. And I don’t mean “this case” being Arte. I mean Ohtani. He’s big business. He would be for any team. 

I would hope a decision is made early in off season. Angels going to keep him in 2023 signed or unsigned. This will linger all winter and into next season.

[halonatic13]

16 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

I would hope a decision is made early in off season. Angels going to keep him in 2023 signed or unsigned. This will linger all winter and into next season.

Exactly.  If he doesn't want to sign an extension then you trade him at the beginning of the off-season.  Then we work on our plans for 2023.  Why is that so difficult?

[Jeff Fletcher]

38 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

I get that. 

The question is, what to do if he doesn’t sign a new contract during the off-season?

Risk losing Ohtani and get just a sandwich round draft pick?

Trade him in July, knowing the return may not be as good as it would be in the upcoming off-season?

Trade him in the upcoming off-season, where they would get more value than a sandwich round draft pick?

 

Anyone who frames it this way has already given up on a meaningful 2023. 
 

To the Angels, there is value in keeping Ohtani because he’s going to help them win games in 2023 that they wouldn’t win without him. 
 

So the debate isn’t when do you trade him. The debate is should you try to win in 2023 or not?

The Angels say yes. A lot of you say no. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

31 minutes ago, halonatic13 said:

Exactly.  If he doesn't want to sign an extension then you trade him at the beginning of the off-season.  Then we work on our plans for 2023.  Why is that so difficult?

I should have done that multi quote thing. 
 

But this is the same answer as I gave above. 
 

As of right now the Angels are going to try to win next season, so they’re going to want to keep Ohtani whether or not he signs an extension. (Maybe that changes if Trout suffers some kind of setback over the next two months.)

[Dtwncbad]

I can’t even begin to understand why you wouldn’t try to win in 2023.

They do need some talent added to win.  And that isn’t easy.  But it definitely is no more difficult that orchestrating some massive rebuild.

[Dtwncbad]

Sometimes I think there is some weird form of Angel fan Münchausen syndrome going on.

Arte definitely deserves criticism but it has almost reached a level of convenient hate that the fans are addicted to.

Hope is down.  And that sure makes it easy to drift into somewhat pulling for losing Ohtani, the Trout contract to be a disaster, and entering into a five year tear down rebuild. . . all to cement forever Arte as Satan that can forever be blamed for the suffering Angel fans have endured over the last X number of years.

It’s like “somebody must pay” for the fan frustration.

Sorry, I am not in on this.

I want talent added to this team so they can compete next year.

Winning would solve a whole lot.

[Stradling]

Yep the Arte hate is just a convenient villain. Sure he’s the owner so ultimately it falls on him just like every owner of every business. But Perry echoed how to spend the money.  Arte didn’t tell him to go get Loup or Tepera or Wade, Velazquez or Lorenzen.