Details on why Shohei Ohtani was not traded

[angelsnationtalk]

https://nypost.com/2022/08/04/angels-shohei-ohtani-wasnt-getting-dealt-at-trade-deadline/

Edited August 4, 2022 by angelsnationtalk

[angelsnationtalk]

"Word is Angels owner Arte Moreno didn’t even want to hear offers, so talks barely got off the ground.......Moreno told folks in his front office he simply could not trade Ohtani while Mike Trout and Anthony Rendon were out with injuries."

 

Arte Moreno is an absolute joke and all Angels fan are living in his nightmare.

[cals]

3 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

"Word is Angels owner Arte Moreno didn’t even want to hear offers, so talks barely got off the ground.......Moreno told folks in his front office he simply could not trade Ohtani while Mike Trout and Anthony Rendon were out with injuries."

 

It certainly seems like he's more concerned about butts in the seats than long term winning, if true. 

[Jay]

Watching on TV last night it seemed like a pretty sparse crowd at the Big A, even with Ohtani pitching.

 

[Angel Oracle]

3 minutes ago, cals said:

It certainly seems like he's more concerned about butts in the seats than long term winning, if true. 

The tax threshold concern shouldn’t be so much now, with being some $95 million under it going into the off-season.

[jsnpritchett]

4 minutes ago, cals said:

It certainly seems like he's more concerned about butts in the seats than long term winning, if true. 

Attendance has dropped by about 6K a game compared to 2019 (using that as a reference point since it was the last pre-pandemic season), one of the biggest drops in all of MLB. Arte's probably freaking out. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Just now, Jay said:

Watching on TV last night it seemed like a pretty sparse crowd at the Big A, even with Ohtani pitching.

 

That should be the blaring wakeup call. Ohtani (not anyone else) is a big enough draw to overcome an overall bad team.

Keeping him of the rest of the team sucks isn't any sort of a good idea.

[jsnpritchett]

7 minutes ago, Jay said:

Watching on TV last night it seemed like a pretty sparse crowd at the Big A, even with Ohtani pitching.

 

Just over 25K tickets sold. Nowhere near that many people actually showed up. 

[bloodbrother]

[Angelsjunky]

I think it's clear that the bottom line for Arte is butts in the seats. What hasn't quite clicked for him yet is that the best way to get that, is by fielding a good team.

Now to be fair, the Angels payroll is consistently in the bottom half of the top 10 - so he will pay. But the problem is, whenever his GMs have money to work with, it seems Arte steps in and says, "I want that guy!" And the choice is invariably bad.

The one silver lining is that Arte will pay Shohei - or at least make an offer that will be hard to refuse. Shohei sells tickets. But the problem is, for Shohei to even consider it, the Angels have to be good next year. Maybe he signs an extension this offseason with an opt out in two years. But he's going to want to see if the Angels can compete next year.

If they do, I think he'll stay - unless the Yankees swoop in and do something ridiculous like offer him 10/$500M. But I think he'd rather stay with the Angels, if he feels like they'll be good for the foreseeable future.

So nothing new here, but Arte is going to need to spend some money before Shohei contract talks occur. And that money is going to have to be spent well.

Should be an interesting offseason.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Angelsjunky

[BigVladdy]

34 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Word is Angels owner Arte Moreno didn’t even want to hear offers, so talks barely got off the ground

Well, no S**t. Click bait.

We'd all rather win without Shohei than lose with him but until arte figures that out, I fear we're doomed. Wash, rinse, repeat.

[tdawg87]

27 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

The tax threshold concern shouldn’t be so much now, with being some $95 million under it going into the off-season.

Doesn't matter. Arte's actual threshold is $185 million or so. That's what he will keep payroll at until proven otherwise.

[ten ocho recon scout]

10 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I think it's clear that the bottom line for Arte is butts in the seats. What hasn't quite clicked for him yet is that the best way to get that, is by fielding a good team.

Now to be fair, the Angels payroll is consistently in the bottom half of the top 10 - so he will pay. But the problem is, whenever his GMs have money to work with, it seems Arte steps in and says, "I want that guy!" And the choice is invariably bad.

The one silver lining is that Arte will pay Shohei - or at least make an offer that will be hard to refuse. Shohei sells tickets. But the problem is, for Shohei to even consider it, the Angels have to be good next year. Maybe he signs an extension this offseason with an opt out in two years. But he's going to want to see if the Angels can compete next year.

If they do, I think he'll stay - unless the Yankees swoop in and do something ridiculous like offer him 10/$500M. But I think he'd rather stay with the Angels, if he feels like they'll be good for the foreseeable future.

So nothing new here, but Arte is going to need to spend some money before Shohei contract talks occur. And that money is going to have to be spent well.

Should be an interesting offseason.

The problem is we can't offer any more money than all the people who want Ohtani. Obviously we can pay more than Oakland or whoever. But if Boston, NY, Dodgers, etc etc etc want him, the offers will be in the same ballpark.

Then it becomes "do you want to be rich on a bad team, or rich and winning"

I just don't think the money is going to save us. And I'm sure Arte is prepared to offer Ohtani the world.

[UndertheHalo]

This morning I decided that Arte is a demon from hell who is hell bent on torturing all Angels fans who possess an IQ over 80.  Sadly, I made a shrine for him and he has probably become more powerful.  My bad guys.  I’ll try to stop fucking up. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by UndertheHalo

[tdawg87]

4 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

This morning I decided that Arte is a demon from hell who is hell bent on torturing all Angels fans who possess an IQ over 80.  Sadly, I made shrine for him and he has probably become more powerful.  My bad guys.  I’ll try to stop fucking up. 

Very sad.

[stormngt]

14 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

The problem is we can't offer any more money than all the people who want Ohtani. Obviously we can pay more than Oakland or whoever. But if Boston, NY, Dodgers, etc etc etc want him, the offers will be in the same ballpark.

Then it becomes "do you want to be rich on a bad team, or rich and winning"

I just don't think the money is going to save us. And I'm sure Arte is prepared to offer Ohtani the world.

We have exclusive rights to negotiate right now.  Give your best offer in off season and if Ohtani doesn't take it, trade him.

[Tank]

52 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

That should be the blaring wakeup call. Ohtani (not anyone else) is a big enough draw to overcome an overall bad team.

Keeping him of the rest of the team sucks isn't any sort of a good idea.

This is what it was like to be a fan in the early 70s when Nolan Ryan was the only real player worth seeing. 

[Stradling]

28 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Doesn't matter. Arte's actual threshold is $185 million or so. That's what he will keep payroll at until proven otherwise.

I think they are around $197 million this year.  It might go back down to $185 million next year.

[Dtwncbad]

Well I wouldn’t trade him either.  He is too unique historically and I would want that legend etched in my teams uniform.

So I don’t blame him for seemingly wanting to keep him and try to win with him, even though there is risk that you don’t win and he walks.

That would suck but (as has been said in many other posts) there is an argument that an owner should not want to be the guy that trades away this kind of player, basically admitting their own incompetence to extend them and to put a winner on the field.

You keep the player and put your best effort into winning now and extending them.

The article doesn’t bother me because I don’t really disagree with the stance.

That doesn’t mean I have confidence that Arte can win now and extend him.  I hope he can but I wouldn’t bet on it.

Again, he has to try, and if it fails at least goes down swinging.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Dtwncbad

[Angel Oracle]

27 minutes ago, stormngt said:

We have exclusive rights to negotiate right now.  Give your best offer in off season and if Ohtani doesn't take it, trade him.

This

Some will say that you keep him, even if you can’t get him to sign a new contract in the off-season.

The problem is, they risk losing him and only getting a sandwich round draft pick; as opposed to trading him in the off-season, where you would get a lot more than a sandwich round draft pick.

What if they are still not contending for even a 3rd WC spot in July?   He likely doesn’t sign a new deal and then you’re likely left with dealing him for not much more than the equivalent of a sandwich round draft pick.

[floplag]

If this is true, im legit pissed.
He thinks people will pay to watch a couple good guys with a bunch of minor leaguers night after night?  I wont buy crap in terms of ticket,.s merch, nothing if this is even remotely true.
He basically tanked he clubs future for short term revenue.
What a disgrace. 

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

Doesn't matter. Arte's actual threshold is $185 million or so. That's what he will keep payroll at until proven otherwise.

In 2019 it was $167m on Opening Day. 

That’s not huge difference from where it is today, but he does incrementally increase payroll. 

(I don’t disagree with your point generally speaking though.)

 

[Angels 1961]

Dodgers have money coming off this year. I believe Dodgers will make big push for Ohtani. Team in playoffs every year and have plenty money. West coast team with great attendance. If he ends up with another team that would be my pick. Next year will be Ohtani's 5th manager with halos. He may not get traded but if you were Ohtani would you not want to test free agency. 

[angelsnationtalk]

7 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Dodgers have money coming off this year. I believe Dodgers will make big push for Ohtani. Team in playoffs every year and have plenty money. West coast team with great attendance. If he ends up with another team that would be my pick. Next year will be Ohtani's 5th manager with halos. He may not get traded but if you were Ohtani would you not want to test free agency. 

They'll have to cuz they'll be eliminated in the playoffs again. They'll offer a massive package and Arte won't allow it.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

I think it's clear that the bottom line for Arte is butts in the seats. What hasn't quite clicked for him yet is that the best way to get that, is by fielding a good team.

Now to be fair, the Angels payroll is consistently in the bottom half of the top 10 - so he will pay. But the problem is, whenever his GMs have money to work with, it seems Arte steps in and says, "I want that guy!" And the choice is invariably bad.

The one silver lining is that Arte will pay Shohei - or at least make an offer that will be hard to refuse. Shohei sells tickets. But the problem is, for Shohei to even consider it, the Angels have to be good next year. Maybe he signs an extension this offseason with an opt out in two years. But he's going to want to see if the Angels can compete next year.

If they do, I think he'll stay - unless the Yankees METS swoop in and do something ridiculous like offer him 10/$500M. But I think he'd rather stay with the Angels, if he feels like they'll be good for the foreseeable future.

So nothing new here, but Arte is going to need to spend some money before Shohei contract talks occur. And that money is going to have to be spent well.

Should be an interesting offseason.

Fixed....