Joe Maddon on the state of the Angels

[jsnpritchett]

8 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yea I’m hoping what mmc alluded to is the reason. 

I mean, I kinda think Detmers earned it?

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

My favorite part about this..  All the people that deluded themselves believing Maddon was this super manager who would turn things around are probably going to line up and praise him.   Ohhh, he's calling it how it is, he's calling out Arte..  

Maddon had all the talent in the world in Chicago.

Um

[Stradling]

Just now, jsnpritchett said:

I mean, I kinda think Detmers earned it?

Yes I do too. 

[DMVol]

22 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I look at it as him publicly saying what we’ve all been saying.  We need major league arms next season. 

Not real complicated, he’s correct…I find it a little refreshing that he would be that blunt…he is financially set and unlike a younger guy maybe doesn’t mind to put some pressure on Arte and Perry…Scioscia would never have done that, not his style…

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Um

Don't mind me..  I'm ranting. 

Hopefully this is one of those familiarity breeds contempt moments and my having seen all of his career in TB and the sort is blinding me.    

I've seen this Joe Maddon before.

 

[Revad]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Disaster incoming.

I guess the season is more than over.  I’ll have a glass of that burgundy 

[Revad]

BTW did Maddon just say where’s the f-ing pitching?

[ScottT]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

I mean, I kinda think Detmers earned it?

WHAT?!

I don't.

[jsnpritchett]

11 minutes ago, ScottT said:

WHAT?!

I don't.

First round pick, dominated in the minors, consensus top 50 (or better) prospect on all the lists.  What more is he going to accomplish in the minors?  You don't draft a college pitcher with the 10th overall pick to leave him on the farm for several years, especially if he's blowing people away like he was.

[Stradling]

Something that shouldn’t be overlooked is Maddon’s influence on this years roster.  

[Jay]

I was hopeful that Maddon would have a positive effect on the team.

Maybe he will.

 

[jsnpritchett]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

I was hopeful that Maddon would have a positive effect on the team.

Maybe he will.

 

...when he leaves.

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, mmc said:

 

I think I made that same post on here back in 2016.

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

 

I'm not sure why Maddon is complaining about our organizational philosophy.

[ScottT]

26 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

First round pick, dominated in the minors, consensus top 50 (or better) prospect on all the lists.  What more is he going to accomplish in the minors?  You don't draft a college pitcher with the 10th overall pick to leave him on the farm for several years, especially if he's blowing people away like he was.

He's earned a shot. 

He hasn't earned a big league rotation spot.

[beatlesrule]

1 hour ago, Revad said:

I guess the season is more than over.  I’ll have a glass of that burgundy 

[Don]

49 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

First round pick, dominated in the minors, consensus top 50 (or better) prospect on all the lists.  What more is he going to accomplish in the minors?  You don't draft a college pitcher with the 10th overall pick to leave him on the farm for several years, especially if he's blowing people away like he was.

I took what Maddon was saying to mean that if the organization thinks doing nothing and counting on someone like Detmers to make this team a contender next year, then we’re being set up for failure. Dude might be awesome at the big league level next year, but it’s more likely he’ll be average to a bit above average. Any way it goes, it won’t be enough to make this team a contender overnight.

[Angelsjunky]

28 minutes ago, Don said:

I took what Maddon was saying to mean that if the organization thinks doing nothing and counting on someone like Detmers to make this team a contender next year, then we’re being set up for failure. Dude might be awesome at the big league level next year, but it’s more likely he’ll be average to a bit above average. Any way it goes, it won’t be enough to make this team a contender overnight.

This is well said.

A month or two ago I was saying that I think the Angels could get away with acquiring only one starting pitcher, whether Stroman or even just re-signing Cobb. I'm now back up to two, mainly because of injuries to Detmers and C-Rod; at the time I was think they'd get 8-10 major league starts.

So I think for next year, I'd go with Ohtani, Sandoval and Suarez, then two veterans (including Cobb), and the rest--one spot, and fill-ins--coming from Detmers, Rodriguez, and Canning, all of whom should probably start the year in AAA until a 6th starter is needed.

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Angelsjunky

[arch stanton]

What does he think of having more money on the IL than Tampa has on the entire roster?

[Docwaukee]

I'm probably reading into this way too much as I tend to do, but this feels like more than Joe's boiled over frustrations suddenly coming out.  And frankly, I don't think this is him calling out Arte.  It could be, but I don't think so.  

I think it's him calling out Minasian.  

And again, this is pure conjecture but this reeks of some unfavorable conversations happening behind the scenes as to why this team is where it is this year and Joe taking to the media to sort of cover his butt.  Or maybe those conversations didn't actually happen directly but I still think he's covering his butt.  

Also, it's become clear to me that Maddon is a 'window' guy.  Maybe that's the wrong term but in essence I think he was brought in to coach a championship roster and the team was forced to use more players from the minors than pretty much every other team.  Granted, injuries have played a big role in that but to me he's sort of complaining that going to war with guys like Bundy and Quintana and Canning was a setup for failure.  So maybe to some degree he is calling out Arte.   He's actually not wrong to complain if that's what Arte promised.  Even at full health this roster wasn't likely making the playoffs.  Or at best they'd be about where Seattle and Oakland are situated looking up 

I know this has been beaten to death but we've never really gotten a great answer about why the defense has been so bad yet it's not like we've had a roster of typically poor defenders.  Maybe @Jeff Fletcher can ask some provocative questions  (OOOh.  he said provocative).

At the end of the day I still don't think the level of talent on this roster matches what they're getting out of them.  And to me, a chunk of that is on Maddon.  Right now I feel that the roster actually has to be all that much better in order to overcome Joe's deficiencies.  But maybe that's just me.  

[jsnpritchett]

7 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I'm probably reading into this way too much as I tend to do, but this feels like more than Joe's boiled over frustrations suddenly coming out.  And frankly, I don't think this is him calling out Arte.  It could be, but I don't think so.  

I think it's him calling out Minasian.  

And again, this is pure conjecture but this reeks of some unfavorable conversations happening behind the scenes as to why this team is where it is this year and Joe taking to the media to sort of cover his butt.  Or maybe those conversations didn't actually happen directly but I still think he's covering his butt.  

Also, it's become clear to me that Maddon is a 'window' guy.  Maybe that's the wrong term but in essence I think he was brought in to coach a championship roster and the team was forced to use more players from the minors than pretty much every other team.  Granted, injuries have played a big role in that but to me he's sort of complaining that going to war with guys like Bundy and Quintana and Canning was a setup for failure.  So maybe to some degree he is calling out Arte.   He's actually not wrong to complain if that's what Arte promised.  Even at full health this roster wasn't likely making the playoffs.  Or at best they'd be about where Seattle and Oakland are situated looking up 

I know this has been beaten to death but we've never really gotten a great answer about why the defense has been so bad yet it's not like we've had a roster of typically poor defenders.  Maybe @Jeff Fletcher can ask some provocative questions  (OOOh.  he said provocative).

At the end of the day I still don't think the level of talent on this roster matches what they're getting out of them.  And to me, a chunk of that is on Maddon.  Right now I feel that the roster actually has to be all that much better in order to overcome Joe's deficiencies.  But maybe that's just me.  

I assumed he was jabbing at Minasian, not Arte.

And no one is going to ask him provocative questions, unfortunately. 

[ScottT]

1 hour ago, arch stanton said:

What does he think of having more money on the IL than Tampa has on the entire roster?

It's not his money.

[fan_since79]

4 hours ago, Stradling said:

I look at it as him publicly saying what we’ve all been saying.  We need major league arms next season. 

We need good starters who can give us innings. You look at the playoff teams and the ones close to a spot and they don't exhaust their bullpen arms over the long season. 

Of course part of the problem is Maddon lifting starters too early. That's got to change.

[AngelsFaninGA]

Looks like Joe is mixing his benzos and wine again. More shit-tier platitudes while the team he's, you know, responsible for managing, continues to hemorrhage losses. I'm sure Arte is probably chortling with glee too. What a mess this organization is. 

[Angel Oracle]

10 hours ago, ScottT said:

He's earned a shot. 

He hasn't earned a big league rotation spot.

This

He still needs to work on not missing too much in the zone.   He’s had far too many hard hits off of him since the late July MLB promotion.

We have to remember that he’s only had some dozen MiLB starts before that MLB promotion.

The talent is there.   Now, it needs refining.