Where do we go from here?

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

Bauer or bust. 

[Rollinghard]

 Bauer alone doesn't get us to playoffs. Would have rather gotten Snell and pick one (Paxton, Tanaka, Odorizzi, Quintana) But now with Snell gone, pick two and hope Barria and/or Canning  have crazy good years. It could happen.  

[Erstad Grit]

25 minutes ago, Rollinghard said:

 Bauer alone doesn't get us to playoffs. Would have rather gotten Snell and pick one (Paxton, Tanaka, Odorizzi, Quintana) But now with Snell gone, pick two and hope Barria and/or Canning  have crazy good years. It could happen.  

Well we added two Iglesias and Suzuki so it wouldn't be Bauer alone. I also really like Rivera a lot and think he'll be a nice pen piece. 

[T.G.]

4 hours ago, Lou said:

now that all other children are growin' up

 

And how do we spend our lives if there's no one to lend us a hand

 

[Pancake Bear]

Team looked better last year than their record and by season's end were trending up. I'm not sure it will take a lot to make us a playoff team, especially with how vulnerable the West is at present. 

It's been clear for some time that Bauer, if signed, would basically fill the budget for anything beyond minimum salary improvements elsewhere. Option 1 has been my pick for a while, however. While secondary options would help, I view top line help as our primary need. 

I don't know if Arte is willing to spend that much, but I'm convinced a move of that caliber is what we need, and Bauer is the only obvious option on the market. And while we do have four big contracts already right now, Pujols will be going off after this season and Upton the next. Trout and Rendon aren't getting any younger, though, and if we wait for other money to go off the books, we're banking too much on the young crew to fill the gap that Trout and Rendon are currently holding on offense. 

I hope they see this as a must-sign, but I'm used to disappointment so I'm not expecting it. Still gonna be pissed when he signs with the Jays. 

[greginpsca]

4 hours ago, totdprods said:

Some more thoughts on Option 3...
Let's say Minasian has had several opportunities this winter to acquire someone like Snell, Musgrove, Darvish, but it was going to cost them Adell or Marsh. 
I could see how he could pause on those moves - to date - when Taylor Ward, Scott Schebler, or someone from the current FA crop would then become your RF this year or next. 

If Minasian, or Arte, has decided that they need to have a legitimate frontline starter on the mound Opening Day, aside from Bauer, they might now need to deal Adell or Marsh if that was a non-negotiable winter objective. If that's the case, shifting towards someone like Ozuna for RF or improving C with Realmuto could swing back into play. 

I think this is extremely unlikely, but not impossible. I'd imagine adding Quintana and Happ is even more likely. 

If we were to sign Realmuto, we would have 4 catchers on the roster. Who do we get rid of?

[totdprods]

14 minutes ago, greginpsca said:

If we were to sign Realmuto, we would have 4 catchers on the roster. Who do we get rid of?

Bemboom DFA’ed, Stassi traded or DLed/DFAed.

There isn’t a catcher in this org that would present an obstacle if Realmuto came into play and made sense as part of a bigger plan. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by totdprods

[Pancake Bear]

They aren't signing Realmuto at this point, and honestly he was never a smart option. Suzuki is a better pick than Realmuto or McCann - not because he's a better player, but because he'll provide what they need and won't be a bust (at his contract, he'd find it hard to be a bust), nor will he replace Stassi, who, frankly, was amazing last year. 

All they really need right now is pitching. A one year deal at RF would be fine, but it isn't essential. 

[floplag]

10 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

They aren't signing Realmuto at this point, and honestly he was never a smart option. Suzuki is a better pick than Realmuto or McCann - not because he's a better player, but because he'll provide what they need and won't be a bust (at his contract, he'd find it hard to be a bust), nor will he replace Stassi, who, frankly, was amazing last year. 

All they really need right now is pitching. A one year deal at RF would be fine, but it isn't essential. 

i would disagree on the RF personally.  Adell needs another year to learn, and even after 21 there will be a spot as Upton likely takes Pujols DH at bats in 22.
This is not the time to hope someone develops, it time to push and win.  Its an easy upgrade with some nice options out there.  Shouldn't be super expensive. 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

1. I send Bauer an offer and ask his agent we would like to either get talks going and see where we are or move on.

2. If Bauer balks or wants to wait....Then sign Paxton, Odorizzi, and Hand and "Go to SPT"! 

[stormngt]

5 hours ago, totdprods said:

Certainly possible as a 2C option. 

Trades for top SP prospects seem so rare these days, and probably even rarer now given how teams are wanting to hold onto cheaper, controlled players due to the virus/money situation, but still plausible. I sort of addressed the other half, the reclamation project, part in mentioning guys like Junis, Duffy, Boyd, etc. 

Nomar Mazara strikes me as a really intriguing RF option too. Someone to gamble on and cut loose midseason if Marsh or Adell are ready for a shot.

They maybe rate but the Padres did it three times in the last month and half.

[Pancake Bear]

57 minutes ago, floplag said:

i would disagree on the RF personally.  Adell needs another year to learn, and even after 21 there will be a spot as Upton likely takes Pujols DH at bats in 22.
This is not the time to hope someone develops, it time to push and win.  Its an easy upgrade with some nice options out there.  Shouldn't be super expensive. 

That's possible, but the reality is we don't know. Adell or Marsh could be ready this season. Upton may get DH time in 2022, he may not. If Ohtani washes out as a pitcher (something with a probability at this point that is not zero), he's going to need somewhere to play. We can't assume we just have a free outfield position open for years. 

More to the point, we don't have money to splurge on a multi year outfield deal. Ten million a year would be well above what we can afford. Anything much above league minimum and we're stealing from the far more pressing need on the mound. 

[Angelsjunky]

The last thing the Angels need is Springer or Ozuna. Sure, they could sign one and trade both Adell and Marsh and hope for the best with Adam’s and others, but it seems like a poor use of resources. Adell and Marsh are 22-23 with six years of club control and cheap contracts. Springer and Ozuna are in their 30s and will cost $18-20ism each. Do we need another of those types of contracts to hamstring the future?

[Hubs]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

Bemboom DFA’ed, Stassi traded or DLed/DFAed.

Bemboom has an option so he will likely start in Salt Lake if Stassi is healthy. If they signed another catcher Stassi would likely be moved in a trade.

They do need a outfielder, likely left handed, who can play all three OF spots on a 1 or 1+1 deal. 

[BTH]

Signing a position player to a large contract is just overthinking the problem and will just end up causing more issues.

If they're willing to trade Adell or Marsh in a deal for a pitcher, they can get at least adequate production from a guy like Pederson or Duvall. Signing an outfielder like Springer or Ozuna to replace eliminates them from having some upcoming financial flexibility. Signing Realmuto would also eliminate them from incoming financial flexibility and would limit what they could spend on starting pitching.

[floplag]

48 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

That's possible, but the reality is we don't know. Adell or Marsh could be ready this season. Upton may get DH time in 2022, he may not. If Ohtani washes out as a pitcher (something with a probability at this point that is not zero), he's going to need somewhere to play. We can't assume we just have a free outfield position open for years. 

More to the point, we don't have money to splurge on a multi year outfield deal. Ten million a year would be well above what we can afford. Anything much above league minimum and we're stealing from the far more pressing need on the mound. 

Ill say to that what i said about other "we dont need this guy for 10 M comments... if we dont have 10M for a need, we shouldnt be looking to spend 30 on one. 

[Revad]

7 minutes ago, floplag said:

Ill say to that what i said about other "we dont need this guy for 10 M comments... if we dont have 10M for a need, we shouldnt be looking to spend 30 on one. 

Just to follow other posters maybe should have a Bloody Mary and try to remember what sex is like

[Pancake Bear]

30 minutes ago, floplag said:

Ill say to that what i said about other "we dont need this guy for 10 M comments... if we dont have 10M for a need, we shouldnt be looking to spend 30 on one. 

Are you seriously suggesting that RF and pitching are remotely equivalent as needs? Really?

[Chuck]

10 hours ago, totdprods said:

I admit, seeing Musgrove come off the board was the first instance this offseason that I started to let worry creep in. In a perfect world, Darvish and Musgrove would have been the two targets I felt were the best targets for the Angels, in my mind.Bauer obviously looms large - and with more teams filling their pitching needs while he remains a free agent, chances are improving that he winds up with the Angels. 

As it stands, I still see a few different routes the Angels can take and still come out of this offseason in great shape. 

Option 1: Trevor Bauer
This scenario banks heavily on internal improvement, which is something Minasian has emphasized this offseason. There's a very real chance that if the Angels can afford Trevor Bauer, he'll use up all of their remaining money available, and even if he's the lone addition to the rotation this winter, would it really be so bad? Bauer, Bundy, Heaney, Canning, Barria/Sandoval/Detmers, with Ohtani once a week could be competitive if the youngsters keep improving and folks stay healthy. I'd assume the Angels would still add a cheap RP or two (think Tepera, Kintzler) perhaps a platoon-level RF (Duvall, Naquin, Pillar, Souza, Goodwin) and call it a day. Save all the prospects.

Option 2A: Spread the Wealth, Save the Prospects
This scenario sees the Angels take their remaining money, and plop it down on free agents. Maybe the rotation is rounded out with Quintana and Odorizzi; Bundy, Odorizzi, Heaney, Quintana, Canning, and Ohtani. Nothing flashy but should be effective. Maybe they drop some more coin on a right fielder like Joc Pederson or Jackie Bradley, or a utility guy like Jurickson Profar, allowing them to deal from their outfield or mid-infield prospects mid-season for an arm if need arises, something which might be much more fruitful if a minor league season takes place and prospects such as Adams, Knowles, and Deveaux and the slate of mid-infield prospects get a chance to flourish. 

Option 2B: Spread the Wealth, Deal Some Prospects
The Angels still have the prospect capital to land someone like Sonny Gray, German Marquez, Kyle Hendricks, even if those scenarios are looking more unlikely. Should a deal happen for someone of that caliber, it would very well likely cost the Angels Marsh or Adell, increasing the odds the Angels find both a RF and a second SP on the free agent market. Again, someone like Joc Pederson, Profar or JBJ makes sense, and the second FA arm could again come down to someone like Paxton, Tanaka, Odorizzi, Quintana, or Richards. Paired with one of those trade targets at the start, this rotation would be a classic high-risk, high-reward group. Lesser trade targets such as Jake Junis, Steven Brault, Vince Velasquez, Danny Duffy, and Matthew Boyd could also emerge, should the Angels decide to save their better prospects and invest more money into their lone FA SP option and/or the bullpen. 

Option 3: Back to the Bats
As spring draws nearer, opportunity for former Braves targets such as Marcell Ozuna or JT Realmuto could still come back into play. In my opinion, either of these moves would have a feel of (slight?) desperation to them, but with Minasian's connections to Realmuto and Ozuna, Arte's penchant for preferring star hitters over star pitchers, and the Angels 'holes' at both RF and C coupling with simply being opportunistic, I don't think a scenario where the Angels still wind up with one of these players is out of the question until both have signed elsewhere. Neither would address pitching and both would use up nearly all remaining money (maybe room for one value buy like a Taijuan Walker or Jose Quintana) but they would solidify the Angels as one of the top offensive clubs in the American League, if not baseball. Adding Ozuna would almost certainly seal the fate of at least one of Adell, Marsh, or Adams being traded within the next 12 months for pitching, if not two, so it doesn't entirely shut the door on rotation improvements. I doubt Stassi's presences would eliminate Realmuto being considered as well, since catchers always have value on the trade market, and Suzuki would be a fine back-up candidate.

 

I would rate #1 and #2A as the likeliest, and most preferred in my book at this point. I feel that with what know about Minasian so far, they are the most realistic. The Angels still have a lot of potential in their MLB-ready youngsters, and still have plenty of bullets to offer up in a trade. Lots can happen between now and July.

It's not the end of the world...yet.

I'd be okay with any of the first three options if it improves our rotation. 

But hell naw to option 4. We've went there 2-3 times too many already. 

[floplag]

38 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Are you seriously suggesting that RF and pitching are remotely equivalent as needs? Really?

of course not... im suggesting that if we can considering paying a guy 30M then paying one other guy 10 shouldn't be that hard, if it is maybe we shouldn't do the first.

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Revad said:

Just to follow other posters maybe should have a Bloody Mary and try to remember what sex is like

Right... quality contribution, bravo... lol 

[Stradler]

Do we REALLY need starting pitching that bad?  

Ohtani exists and last I checked he still has a top arm....

[Stradling]

Just now, floplag said:

of course not... im suggesting that if we can considering paying a guy 30M then paying one other guy 10 shouldn't be that hard, if it is maybe we shouldn't do the first.

Except we can get buy with Ward in RF much more so than having Bundy as our #1.  

[Stradling]

Just now, PowerBall said:

Do we REALLY need starting pitching that bad?

Yes.

[Angels 1961]

I'm not a big fan of spending all the money 1 player. To get a top of rotation by trade looks like that will not happen. Free agents left only Bauer fits spot. I like to get 2 bullpen pieces like Petit, Colome or Osuna. SP get Walker, Paxton, Richards, Happ, Odorizzi, Quintana any two of these. We do not need a catcher or RF all money goes to pitching.