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Joel Sherman: Dave Dombroski a name that comes up voluminously with Angels GM job


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https://nypost.com/2020/09/21/steve-cohens-mets-decision-angels-dombrowski-interest-sherman/

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The one job that appears certain to open up is the Angels. In five seasons at the GM helm, former Yankees assistant GM Billy Eppler has not been able to get the Angels even over .500, much less into the playoffs.

 

1. One of his best friends, Tony La Russa, is an Angels senior adviser and is said to have owner Arte Moreno’s ear.

 

2. Moreno tried a more modern front office approach with Eppler, but the owner’s comfort level is with more veteran- and more scout-driven.

3. Mike Trout turned 29 last month. He has a decade as the majors’ best player yet just one playoff appearance, three games and no wins. This is not a rebuild job, then, especially with Anthony Rendon already 30 and concluding the first season of a seven-year, $245 million pact.

Dombrowski, 64, is a veteran, scout-driven and perhaps the most renowned win-now executive in the sport. He has shown an ability to aggressively pursue what was needed with the Marlins, Tigers and Red Sox, winning titles in Florida and Boston, and nearly doing so in Detroit. The long-term viability of the teams after his exits has been in question, but not his ability to win if given leeway to trade prospects and spend near the top of the market.

Dombrowski was fired by the Red Sox toward the end of last season, less than a year after winning the championship. In a phone call Monday, Dombrowski said, “I wasn’t ready to retire and I am not ready to retire. I love baseball.”

 

Just posting the article that @khouse referenced in another thread

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Dombrowski inherited strong farm systems in his previous jobs, which he was able to leverage into a "win now" mode.  The problem here, though, is our farm system is mediocre on the whole (not terrible

I’m sorry if I am laughing at the “horror” of winning for four years and getting a WS ring, but then suffering for 5 years after that.  Man that five years after the parade would be rough. Maybe 

I would still take a World Series ring and some years like we had from 2004-2009 if it meant trading away our prospects. 

It’s going to be awesome when the angels finally get good for like 2 seasons after they tear down the development system again and then Trout starts his decent into being a mere mortal and we spend the next two decades being dog shit while we wait for Moreno to die.   But hey, hopefully those couple of good years are great. 

Edited by UndertheHalo
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49 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

It’s going to be awesome when the angels finally get good for like 2 seasons after they tear down the development system again and then Trout starts his decent into being a mere mortal and we spend the next two decades being dog shit while we wait for Moreno to die.   But hey, hopefully those couple of good years are great. 

I thought Cliff Clavin was a Red Sox fan.

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If Dombrowski is hired, say goodbye to Jordyn Adams, Jose Soriano, Chris Rodriguez, Jam Jones, Luis Rengifo, Jeremiah Jackson, Arol Vera, and Matt Thaiss..... And say hello to a bloated payroll and a World Series ring.

You give and take away. Dombrowski is a winner. The Angels will get themselves a solid 3-4 year window of success between 2021-2025, but come 2026, Trout will be 36, Rendon will be 38 and their window of contention wouldn't reopen again until 2030.

So is 4 years of contention and one World Series ring worth a solid 5 years of rebuilding? I feel like it is, but you'd have to understand Dombrowski is the guy you bring in to win it, and he's also the guy you'll fire because he's not a rebuilder.

Edited by Second Base
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4 minutes ago, Second Base said:

If Dombrowski is hired, say goodbye to Jordyn Adams, Jose Soriano, Chris Rodriguez, Jam Jones, Luis Rengifo, Jeremiah Jackson, Arol Vera, and Matt Thaiss..... And say hello to a bloated payroll and a World Series ring.

You give and take away. Dombrowski is a winner. The Angels will get themselves a solid 3-4 year window of success between 2021-2025, but come 2026, Trout will be 36, Rendon will be 38 and their window of contention wouldn't reopen again until 2030.

So is 4 years of contention and one World Series ring worth a solid 5 years of rebuilding? I feel like it is, but you'd have to understand Dombrowski is the guy you bring in to win it, and he's also the guy you'll fire because he's not a rebuilder.

I would still take a World Series ring and some years like we had from 2004-2009 if it meant trading away our prospects. 

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Or it’ll just be a disaster and we’ll end up without a winner and with a thrashed farm system again.  I think you give Eppler a couple more years to let his work bear fruit.  It was always ridiculous to think he’d be able to fix the Reagins/Dipoto disaster in 2 or 3 years.  No one could have done it.  The right way to run a major league organization is to develop a consistent pipeline of talent.  We aren’t sitting on a bunch of premium prospects.  

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I really feel like the Dombrowski method will decapitate this franchise for a decade, the real and only growth we have really seen has come from within, mainly home grown but some re-calibrated talent from other teams.  Eppler doesn't deserve to lose his job because of the major improvements the team has made since the early struggles, the sample size is not large enough to call him a failure over 162 games.  We basically get a freebie, shortened season that was mostly forgettable and an extra off-season to re-calibrate the team once again.

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4 hours ago, Second Base said:

If Dombrowski is hired, say goodbye to Jordyn Adams, Jose Soriano, Chris Rodriguez, Jam Jones, Luis Rengifo, Jeremiah Jackson, Arol Vera, and Matt Thaiss..... And say hello to a bloated payroll and a World Series ring.

You give and take away. Dombrowski is a winner. The Angels will get themselves a solid 3-4 year window of success between 2021-2025, but come 2026, Trout will be 36, Rendon will be 38 and their window of contention wouldn't reopen again until 2030.

So is 4 years of contention and one World Series ring worth a solid 5 years of rebuilding? I feel like it is, but you'd have to understand Dombrowski is the guy you bring in to win it, and he's also the guy you'll fire because he's not a rebuilder.

At this point.... we have the best player in the game. Get him to the postseason. Worry about 5 years later 5 years later.

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Dombrowski inherited strong farm systems in his previous jobs, which he was able to leverage into a "win now" mode.  The problem here, though, is our farm system is mediocre on the whole (not terrible, but not a top tier one).

I don't think he's a good fit, because he likely can't leverage the farm enough to immediately generate a WS contender, and I don't think he's savvy enough at finding the under-the-radar type players that the more analytical GMs are.

If we had, say, a top 3 farm system, then sure - hire him, go for it now with Trout and Rendon at their peaks, and hope you get a few lucky bounces along the way and win it all.

But we don't, nor do we have the payroll space to go out and get more top free agents.

Now, that said, if Arte hires Dombrowski AND says "what the hell, let's spend and go over the cap for a year or two?"  Then okay, great - let's sign Bauer, Gausman, and re-sign Simba - two legit SPs and our defensive wizard at SS.  If hiring Dombrowski means Arte is going to spend more, then in THAT regard, I will happily take that.

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I wonder if there's some sort of hybrid outcome. I know it's very unlikely, but what about Dombrowski for some sort of VP of Baseball Ops, with Eppler still serving as GM?

Obviously, this sort of arrangement does not happen often, if ever, but perhaps Eppler's strong work rebuilding the farm and finding cheap talent, paired with Dombrowski's strong work in aggressive, flashy win-now moves, could compliment. They could also also conflict in a quite remarkable way. 

It really pains me that this offseason is starting to revolve so much around Moreno. Overall, I really like what he's done to Angels baseball. But he really makes some bone-headed, bizarre moves sometimes that really set things back. This is maybe the most important offseason in the Trout Era and it sucks that inevitably the rest of his contract will likely be shaped by what Moreno wants to do this winter. Does he want to spend more on the MLB payroll? Spend less because of lost revenue due to the virus? A win-now GM that goes for broke for a quick win? An extension for a GM with questionable results? 

This offseason really comes down to what Moreno wants to do for the future of the franchise. I know he's always a factor, but this winter, more than ever. 

Eek.

Edited by totdprods
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1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

Dombrowski inherited strong farm systems in his previous jobs, which he was able to leverage into a "win now" mode.  The problem here, though, is our farm system is mediocre on the whole (not terrible, but not a top tier one).

I don't think he's a good fit, because he likely can't leverage the farm enough to immediately generate a WS contender, and I don't think he's savvy enough at finding the under-the-radar type players that the more analytical GMs are.

If we had, say, a top 3 farm system, then sure - hire him, go for it now with Trout and Rendon at their peaks, and hope you get a few lucky bounces along the way and win it all.

But we don't, nor do we have the payroll space to go out and get more top free agents.

Now, that said, if Arte hires Dombrowski AND says "what the hell, let's spend and go over the cap for a year or two?"  Then okay, great - let's sign Bauer, Gausman, and re-sign Simba - two legit SPs and our defensive wizard at SS.  If hiring Dombrowski means Arte is going to spend more, then in THAT regard, I will happily take that.

This is the more nuanced view, I think - you're right, there's simply not enough depth in our system to put us over the top - especially if the "top" is a one-game postseason in a losing Wild Card play-in game.   

Our biggest need is quality, major-league, proven starting pitching - and that's (obviously) a commodity that's very expensive in prospects if you have to trade for them.  

If we were actually able to do the above - Bauer, Gausman, and Simba - Arte would be an absolute fool not to do it.  Heck, if things don't work out, trade any with excess value for prospects.  The team - via Arte - has a lot of cash resources - spend the cash, keep the players.  

Have said it before, will say it again, and again - this team needs to invest in nuts and bolts - better scouting and player development, including internationals. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, DCAngelsFan said:

This is the more nuanced view, I think - you're right, there's simply not enough depth in our system to put us over the top - especially if the "top" is a one-game postseason in a losing Wild Card play-in game.   

Our biggest need is quality, major-league, proven starting pitching - and that's (obviously) a commodity that's very expensive in prospects if you have to trade for them.  

If we were actually able to do the above - Bauer, Gausman, and Simba - Arte would be an absolute fool not to do it.  Heck, if things don't work out, trade any with excess value for prospects.  The team - via Arte - has a lot of cash resources - spend the cash, keep the players.  

Have said it before, will say it again, and again - this team needs to invest in nuts and bolts - better scouting and player development, including internationals. 

 

 

Absolutely.  The perennial contenders (Dodgers, Rays, A's, etc) - have very strong analytic AND scouting departments, and a FO filled with people to help facilitate that process.  Those guys more than earn their keep, and in terms of business, it obviously makes sense to have a high "front office payroll" but manageable team payroll.

We really need to invest heavily in our FO, but I don't think that is Arte's ultimate direction.

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5 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Keep Eppler, put Dombrosky President in charge of baseball operations. It's like adding a multiplier to the front office baseball intelligence without doing another overhaul. 

I can’t see that happening because it undermines both of them, but it would/could be a really great dynamic. Maybe if Dombrowski inherits Arte’s role more than Eppler’s? Dombrowski gives perhaps the most weighty say on the biggest moves and broad strategy, with Eppler still handling day to day, minor leagues, lesser MLB moves. Give Eppler a year or two extension, if they’re still floundering, can him in 2021 and have Dombrowski oversee or step in for the next GM.

Edited by totdprods
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2 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Absolutely.  The perennial contenders (Dodgers, Rays, A's, etc) - have very strong analytic AND scouting departments, and a FO filled with people to help facilitate that process.  Those guys more than earn their keep, and in terms of business, it obviously makes sense to have a high "front office payroll" but manageable team payroll.

We really need to invest heavily in our FO, but I don't think that is Arte's ultimate direction.

This article was published yesterday - 2020 Rookies ranked by future value - in the top 25, there are 4 Dodgers in the top 30, 3 Mariners, 2 A's -- and 1 Angels (Walsh, at #28.)  

https://www.mlb.com/news/ranking-2020-mlb-rookies-by-future-value 

The Dodgers continue to shame us in terms of finding talent ...

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3 minutes ago, DCAngelsFan said:

This article was published yesterday - 2020 Rookies ranked by future value - in the top 25, there are 4 Dodgers in the top 30, 3 Mariners, 2 A's -- and 1 Angels (Walsh, at #28.)  

https://www.mlb.com/news/ranking-2020-mlb-rookies-by-future-value 

The Dodgers continue to shame us in terms of finding talent ...

A lot of people hate the Dodgers, but I admire them for what they are able to accomplish and the infrastructure they have built.  We need to look at organizations like theirs, the Rays, Giants (now, because of Zaidi), A's, etc, and model our team after theirs.

They have a system-based process in place that clearly works.  The Dodgers and Rays, in particular, have tremendous talent on both the MLB team AND minor league system.  We have a long way to go to catch them, but IMO, we really should hire a GM from the Dodgers or Rays (i.e., the Friedman tree), and have Arte buy in on bringing that process to this team.

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10 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Or it’ll just be a disaster and we’ll end up without a winner and with a thrashed farm system again.  I think you give Eppler a couple more years to let his work bear fruit.  It was always ridiculous to think he’d be able to fix the Reagins/Dipoto disaster in 2 or 3 years.  No one could have done it.  The right way to run a major league organization is to develop a consistent pipeline of talent.  We aren’t sitting on a bunch of premium prospects.  

This is why, if Arte would allow the scouting to be built up, he can bring in Logan White to take over.   I’m not convinced that Eppler is a big believer in elite scouting, as White is.

Or even better, bring in Dombrowski (VP) and White (GM).  You then have the baseball savvy combined with elite scouting/analytics.   Plus, White would then get to start his GM career with an experienced person to guide him, but also not tearing down once it’s built up.

They are already a decent team that simply needs two more starting pitchers, three relievers, and some depth.   White would continue to build a solid org, and after becoming an annual contender, not tear it down.

Edited by Angel Oracle
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24 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I can’t see that happening because it undermines both of them, but it would/could be a really great dynamic. Maybe if Dombrowski inherits Arte’s role more than Eppler’s? Dombrowski gives perhaps the most weighty say on the biggest moves and broad strategy, with Eppler still handling day to day, minor leagues, lesser MLB moves. Give Eppler a year or two extension, if they’re still floundering, can him in 2021 and have Dombrowski oversee or step in for the next GM.

It doesn't undermine either, it is the same structure of the Dodgers. Both have their roles and responsibilities regardless of ownership. 

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Why is anyone worrying about being dog-shit after a few years of winning, etc.  Do you not realize that we CURRENTLY are dog-shit.  We had the 10th worst record last year.  We are even worse this year.  Half the teams are making the playoffs and we are not even in the playoff hunt in a 60 game season.  That's how bad we are.  It can't get much worse. 

Heck, we're likely better off being worse because then we'd have a direction (rebuild) for once.  Right now we're in no-man's land.  Not good enough to make a bloated playoffs; but not bad enough to completely sell-off and rebuild.  We are completely insignificant...bordering on invisible.  I really don't care what we do, as long as it's something different and something with a clear purpose.

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