What will the Astros Punishment be?

[Pancake Bear]

Oh, we’re back to this?

Depends entirely on what can be proved.

If they’ve got nothing beyond proof of garbage cans being hit in the regular season in 2017, it won’t be much of anything. 

If they can prove it was going on in the playoffs and especially the World Series? It won’t be a slap on the wrist and you’re nuts if you think otherwise. Coppollela got banned for life for less. I think it did likely continue. I mean, why stop? It’s working, right? I think they just got sneakier about it. Only question is how much evidence still exists.

I don’t think the title will be vacated. It would be a meaningless gesture. Everyone knows they cheated. They can never boast about it again. Every time someone mentions it, they’ll be reminded that it’s more tainted than the home run record.

I tend to doubt anything happens to Beltran, although possibly to Cora, but we’ll see. Depends on the degree of involvement. Luhnow is banned for life if it goes as deep as I expect, likely Hinch as well. 

Draft picks will for sure be forfeited, and definitely fines. Beyond that, playoff ineligibility and player suspensions are possible. 

But no way it gets swept under the rug. It’s too big of a deal. Seriously, name a bigger scandal since the Black Sox. This is the biggest scandal in decades, more than steroids, and from articles released since the WS, it’s clear that owners, gms, managers, and players are all pissed off. So are fans and journalists. Manfred will go too heavy rather than too soft. This is the defining moment of his tenure. He’ll be remembered for how he defended the purity of the game and everyone is behind him and wants blood from the Astros. It would be far more dangerous for him to soft play it. They’re toast. 

[Hubs]

To me, besides the testimony, emails, and video evidence we don't have access to, but MLB does, we don't know exactly how it worked.

We do have access to stats...

In 2016, Marwin Gonzalez hit .254 with a .293 OBP. He hit .303 with a .377 OBP in 2017.

Jake Marisnick hit .209 with a .257 OBP. He hit .243 with a .319 OBP in 2017.

Gurriel hit .262 with a .292 OBP. He hit .299 with a .332 OBP in 2017.

Josh Reddick hit .314 with a .363 OBP. In the previous season with the Dodgers and A's, he hit .281 with a .345 OBP.

Correra hit .274 with a .361 OBP, in 2016, then hit .315 with a .390 OBP.,.. his slugging also increased.

 

Everyone hit better...everyone.

 

 

[Second Base]

41 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Oh, we’re back to this?

Depends entirely on what can be proved.

If they’ve got nothing beyond proof of garbage cans being hit in the regular season in 2017, it won’t be much of anything. 

If they can prove it was going on in the playoffs and especially the World Series? It won’t be a slap on the wrist and you’re nuts if you think otherwise. Coppollela got banned for life for less. I think it did likely continue. I mean, why stop? It’s working, right? I think they just got sneakier about it. Only question is how much evidence still exists.

I don’t think the title will be vacated. It would be a meaningless gesture. Everyone knows they cheated. They can never boast about it again. Every time someone mentions it, they’ll be reminded that it’s more tainted than the home run record.

I tend to doubt anything happens to Beltran, although possibly to Cora, but we’ll see. Depends on the degree of involvement. Luhnow is banned for life if it goes as deep as I expect, likely Hinch as well. 

Draft picks will for sure be forfeited, and definitely fines. Beyond that, playoff ineligibility and player suspensions are possible. 

But no way it gets swept under the rug. It’s too big of a deal. Seriously, name a bigger scandal since the Black Sox. This is the biggest scandal in decades, more than steroids, and from articles released since the WS, it’s clear that owners, gms, managers, and players are all pissed off. So are fans and journalists. Manfred will go too heavy rather than too soft. This is the defining moment of his tenure. He’ll be remembered for how he defended the purity of the game and everyone is behind him and wants blood from the Astros. It would be far more dangerous for him to soft play it. They’re toast. 

Go on....

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Tank said:

A new drum.

[beatlesrule]

1 hour ago, Hubs said:

To me, besides the testimony, emails, and video evidence we don't have access to, but MLB does, we don't know exactly how it worked.

We do have access to stats...

In 2016, Marwin Gonzalez hit .254 with a .293 OBP. He hit .303 with a .377 OBP in 2017.

Jake Marisnick hit .209 with a .257 OBP. He hit .243 with a .319 OBP in 2017.

Gurriel hit .262 with a .292 OBP. He hit .299 with a .332 OBP in 2017.

Josh Reddick hit .314 with a .363 OBP. In the previous season with the Dodgers and A's, he hit .281 with a .345 OBP.

Correra hit .274 with a .361 OBP, in 2016, then hit .315 with a .390 OBP.,.. his slugging also increased.

 

Everyone hit better...everyone.

 

 

So then are proposing that EVERY player on the team in 2017 gets fined or suspended or banned? Because if all the players and coaching staff knew and were cheating, they are all guilty. No one ever seems to point to the fact that they also won games on the road. Were they cheating in those games too? If they were cheating at home, how did they ever lose at home? I'm not doubting that cheating was going on but the fact that they both lost at home and won on the road means the cheating wasn't going very well and their team was pretty darn talented.

[failos]

Move them back to the NL Central

[UndertheHalo]

The worst they can do is take away some draft picks and maybe some international money.  They probably won’t even hit them too hard in that area.  Some underlings will probably get run out of baseball.  Some higher ups might get suspended.  It’s not worth paying attention to most likely. 

[tdawg87]

Spankings.

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

What do we get if we predict correctly?
 

Investigated, to see if anyone in their dugout gave you a tipoff.

[ten ocho recon scout]

In all honesty, now that the dust has settled, I dont see too much happening. Its been rumored that most teams do the same thing to some degree or another.... so is it as big of a deal to MLB as we'd like to think? Or not....

Im not saying its ok. Or supporting them. But ai have a feeling they just got caught, whereas others havent.

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 hours ago, SoPas Angel said:

Pujols then hits 41 HR and puts up 8.9 WAR. He repeatedly says how great Houston fans are, rivaled only by Cardinals fans. 

"I havent seen albert hit a ball that hard in this stadium since the one that hasnt landed yet from 2005" - Gubi

[Hubs]

The hitters who knew and participated will be suspended but not likely more than 20 games. And they won’t have to serve them concurrently with each other so the Astros can field a team. 
 

And FYI we don’t know that this wasn’t happening on the road, if not as blatantly. A pair of fans with a camera in CF? And an iPhone? 
 

[Pancake Bear]

56 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

So then are proposing that EVERY player on the team in 2017 gets fined or suspended or banned? Because if all the players and coaching staff knew and were cheating, they are all guilty. No one ever seems to point to the fact that they also won games on the road. Were they cheating in those games too? If they were cheating at home, how did they ever lose at home? I'm not doubting that cheating was going on but the fact that they both lost at home and won on the road means the cheating wasn't going very well and their team was pretty darn talented.

First, there’s been rumors that they were in fact cheating on the road as well. Second, you think it makes them unbeatable? Uh, I don’t think you know how hard hitting is. It helps a ton to know what’s coming. It doesn’t make you incapable of losing. 

[Angelsjunky]

So if Bregman, Springer, Altuve etc are suspected 20 games in 2020, and the Angels sneak in the division, they'll get an asterisk for it? Good times.

[Angelsjunky]

3 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

I assume that they were only aiding their hitters, and not their pitchers?     If they were aiding their pitchers, then Verlander's and Cole's numbers are partially explainable.

I'm not sure how any sign-stealing system would benefit pitchers. Maybe if they doctored the balls the improve spin-rate.

[AngelStew43]

I think it will involve suspensions/bans for the GM, and forfeiture of picks and international bonus money.  

Possibly spread over more than one season.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

46 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

It helps a ton to know what’s coming. It doesn’t make you incapable of losing. 

No, but it makes it a lot easier to prepare for the pitch. That is a considerable edge. Steroids don't make you capable of hitting a baseball either, but if you already have that capability, they add strength.

[Pancake Bear]

30 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

No, but it makes it a lot easier to prepare for the pitch. That is a considerable edge. Steroids don't make you capable of hitting a baseball either, but if you already have that capability, they add strength.

??? What’d I say?

[Vegas Halo Fan]

5 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

??? What’d I say?

You said that it didn't guarantee winning. True, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier.

[Pancake Bear]

2 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

You said that it didn't guarantee winning. True, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier.

“It helps a ton to know what’s coming, but...” is what I said. I genuinely don’t know what you’re disagreeing with.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

8 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

“It helps a ton to know what’s coming, but...” is what I said. I genuinely don’t know what you’re disagreeing with.

Maybe I am really not. Let's just let this slide.

[Hubs]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

So if Bregman, Springer, Altuve etc are suspected 20 games in 2020, and the Angels sneak in the division, they'll get an asterisk for it? Good times.

Why would they get an asterisk? They weren’t the cheaters. The Astros were.

One thing I would bet on and that’s an mlb representative in the Astros dugout for all games, home and road. And I bet you’ll see a lot of Astros hitters suddenly striking out a lot more and walking less. 

[Hubs]

I always said, I didn’t understand how the Astros were that good offensively. I understood they have great pitching, but never understood how hitters like Josh Reddick or Evan Gattis had great success in Houston. They were good before but not great. Altuve, Correa, Bregman and Springer are legit all star caliber hitters but Gurriel? I didn’t understand it.

[Tank]

2 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Spankings.

That’s highly frowned upon in today’s society. 

We’ll have to change it to a timeout.

[Second Base]

Wait, Keira Knightly? Say it isn't so!