Kluber and Others

[CanadianHalo]

3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Keuchel and Bumgarner are actually one of my least favorite combos of the names available. It ties up maybe $35-50m AAV for two guys for at least three years who may very well be no better than #3s this year and #4s next year, plus Bumgarner costs a pick. Neither really have the upside we’d like to see still. I think Price or Kluber have a better shot at pitching like a #2 or #1-lite than Bumgarner at this point - with him, you’re basically hoping he just stabilizes at his current level rather than regressing further. It’s thin ice. 

Keuchel does fit really nice with almost any other arm though. Only real concern with him at this point is what will his AAV land at - I like him around $15m for 3 years, but anything above that makes me nervous unless we’re talking 1-2 years. 

Kluber and Price velo’s have been trending downward for awhile. Kluber 5 straight seasons of velo drops on his FB and Price the last 2 seasons.

I really don’t have a ton of faith in either and they’re both 34 (Kluber turns 34 in April). 

At this point everyone is a risk. I feel Keuchel may be the cheapest and safest bet so for me he needs to be 1 of the 2.

 

[Lou]

Just now, Jason said:

It's closer to stereotyping 

you say tomato . . . 

[totdprods]

I’m honestly surprised Jon Lester hasn’t come up yet. He’s been really average of late for the Cubs, 4.03 ERA, 4.28 FIP,  108 ERA+, 1.38 WHIP in the last three years, but also extremely durable - hitting 32 GS, 180 IP pretty much every season - and has for a long time. 

He is due $20m this year, and has a $25m option or $10m buyout next year. 

He signed with the Cubs because of Maddon, and while I imagine he has a NTC, he could still waive it. The Cubs would likely love to dump some of that salary, perhaps even paying a good bit of it. In fact, I could see the something mirroring the Cozart deal a bit, where the Cubs eat a bulk of his salary with the Angels picking up the $10m buyout on his contract next year, or the Cubs kicking in $10m now and the Angels still paying the buyout next winter, essentially making him 1/$10m for 2020. 

Not exciting but really dependable and would slot in nicely in the middle-back of the rotation if we also get someone with some legit #1-2 upside like Kluber.

[Second Base]

16 minutes ago, Lou said:

Ryu at $30M/yr is a hell no for me 

Should be for everyone. He's that good, but he's also been THAT injured. I'd be willing to go to 25 million for him. 

But maybe this is just me showing a lack of knowledge, but I worry about Ryu logistically. Does he get along with teammates? Racist as this sounds, I've heard Korean players and Japanese players have butted heads in international play. I'm curious if that extends to MLB. Probably not but you never know. Then there's the whole translator thing. Does it bother some clubs to have multiple of those in the dugout for every different language?

Edited December 13, 2019 by Second Base

[totdprods]

11 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

Kluber and Price velo’s have been trending downward for awhile. Kluber 5 straight seasons of velo drops on his FB and Price the last 2 seasons.

I really don’t have a ton of faith in either and they’re both 34 (Kluber turns 34 in April). 

At this point everyone is a risk. I feel Keuchel may be the cheapest and safest bet so for me he needs to be 1 of the 2.

Bright side with Kluber though is you only need to worry about him for one or two years. It’s a worthy gamble. If he snaps back to form it’s a huge steal, Bumgarner could be looking at five years. Price is pretty risky. It really comes down to prospect cost and salary with him. He might be worth it, might not. Greinke’s velocity has been going down too and he’s managed fine. It’s concerning but not a death sentence.

Keuchel’s chief concern with me will always be salary. I’d love him around $15m, but think he’ll get offers of at least $18m, possibly $20m, maybe even something stupid like $22m AAV. There are desperate teams out there and FA SP dollars are nuts right now. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by totdprods

[totdprods]

Man, fuck the Washington Nationals. That team has single-handedly created this precedent that every #1-2 SP should be paid $1m+ per start. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by totdprods

[floplag]

4 minutes ago, Randy Gradishar said:

Yeah but infield D was good last year, too.

Yes, it was, but its better now

[fan_since79]

34 minutes ago, Stradling said:

For Kluber I think my limit would be Rengifo and Sandoval.

For Keuchel I'd probably go 3 year and $54 million.  

Price would be virtually a nothing to me and I would only want him if he came with less of a price tag than Keuchel, something liek 3 years $40 million.  Then I would still only trade someone like Thaiss for him.  

Bumgarner I would probably be ok with 4 years and around $76 million.  

I don't like parting with Sandoval, but it is Kluber so that's understandable.

The Keuchel price seems reasonable. I would try for $15mill/yr first.

I've seen $100 million floating around for Bumgarner, but that has to be for five years. $76 for four seems about right.

[Second Base]

21 minutes ago, totdprods said:

This is almost exactly how I view it too. We’re on the exact same page with valuations here. 

The trick here will be finding a combination that works and falls within the budget. Just an example, but I do not feel Bumgarner and Keuchel would be enough. Or Lester for that matter. 

There tangibly needs to be an ace on staff. Recent history shows that's simply non-negotiable for contenders with World Series aspirations. 

That's part of the reason why I really like David Price. Boston needs to cut payroll, but still wants to compete. If only for year one of the three remaining, if they could somehow get that contract down to 10-15 million, it opens up a lot of options. 

[Hubs]

I’d really like a young guy in a trade that costs at most $12 M over the next two seasons (per year) but that guy doesn’t exist really. Trade for Matt Boyd or Jon Gray or Robbie Ray and then add Bumgarner or Keuchel for around $20 AAV.

[greginpsca]

Seems all of the top remaining pitchers, all seem to be medical risks. I just hope to hell  that Eppler is looking really close at all those guys medical records and mri's before any deal is made. We don't need to sign guys to our IL list.

[tdawg87]

Matt Boyd is the new Randy Winn.

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, Hubs said:

I’d really like a young guy in a trade that costs at most $12 M over the next two seasons (per year) but that guy doesn’t exist really. Trade for Matt Boyd or Jon Gray or Robbie Ray and then add Bumgarner or Keuchel for around $20 AAV.

This is the route I’d prefer - someone who costs just money, either in trade or FA, and someone who has a low salary/years of control. Both need to be durable and at least a #3, at least one needs some significant upside. 

[HaloMilliVanilli]

I've always liked Alex Reyes of the Cards.  He has never put it all together or been completely healthy.  Would love to acquire him but would likely cost too much, although not likely as much as it would've cost 2 years ago.  Seems like a guy who could really ascend if everything came together.

[Angel Oracle]

Is Jon Gray no longer available?

If he still is available, would Suarez, Deveaux, and either Rengifo or Thaiss be too much or too little for him?   

[Angel Oracle]

35 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Matt Boyd is the new Randy Winn.

With a stratospheric ERA (5.51) and 20 HRs allowed after the ASB in 2019

Edited December 13, 2019 by Angel Oracle

[Vlad27Trout27]

I think you still pursue pitching on the trade market until it becomes out of reach. I would defiantly not mind getting Kluber at the right price. 

But i also would not mind waiting until the dead-line to acquire a pitcher. there will be quite a few name on the market; Bauer, Ray, GRich, Kluber. This also gives our prospect time to develop future.

In free agency, Ryu is the top pick. I do not see him being worth a 20+ mil risk, but would not mind offering a 3yrs 45 mil, with added bonus, or maybe take a risk and offer him a four year deal, 4yrs 45 mil with added bonus.

If that does not work, switch to keuchel. a 3 yrs 43 mil. 

Than make a play at the deadline. 

 

 

[Brandon]

11 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Is Jon Gray no longer available?

I hear he is cheap

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

1 hour ago, Hubs said:

I’d really like a young guy in a trade that costs at most $12 M over the next two seasons (per year) but that guy doesn’t exist really. Trade for Matt Boyd or Jon Gray or Robbie Ray and then add Bumgarner or Keuchel for around $20 AAV.

I'm not as high on Boyd as others. The K's are nice but jumped huge compared to his other seasons of being approx .75 k's per inning compared to 1.2 per inning last year. He also only has 2 seasons of 170+innings. He has pitched for a crappy Tigers team but has he truly shown the ability of being a shutdown Ace #1 or #2 guy? Not really. Though he does have club control attached. I think he could still go one way or the other.

 

Rob Ray I dont know enough about the guy. He has the K's.

I've watched Gray pitch a little and he does have quality 3 pitches. Maybe, being an Ace on a crappy team and having to work on location due to the elevation at Coors Field would allow him some higher spin rate here?

Of these 3 I go Gray.

 

Keuchel due to no Draft pick.

 

MadBum due to Playoff and World Series experience. He still has k'd close to 1 an inning last year.

Kluber due to his issues weren't really elbow or shoulder issues last year broken forearm and oblique! At least the arm got a break last year after having some wear on the tires the previous 5 seasons.

 

Ryu scares me. Throwing that Dodger slider he had to take a few starts off last year due to "arm tiredness" they said late last year after the all star break. And his other injury issues.

[VariousCrap]

Personally, I don't like the idea of giving up any of the farm system Eppler has developed even for Kluber.  I get the appeal, but for me it is a no.

The Angels have money and can spend it.

Keuchel at no more than 3/54 is a very fair deal for him being he has no draft pick attached.

After that, I'd settle for another mid to back end rotation guy like Teheran.

Keuchel, Ohtani, Bundy, Teheran, Canning and Heaney is a very good rotation and is a huge upgrade from last season.

 

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

I've also got my heart set on Kluber. Like previously stated in here, I think he will return to near ace level. I may be in the minority but I would be willing to deal Fletcher for him as much as it pains me to say that. Kluber is a beast and what we need.

Keuchel would be my other option. I think he's more affordable than Bumgarner and healthier than Ryu. Ryu I want no parts of @ the rumored $30 mil per season. Bumgarner's road ERA scares me and I don't think its a fluke. Two seasons in a row with a terrible road ERA. I'll pass on that for the numbers he's looking for. Keuchel at a reasonable 3 year AVV would be a killer #2-3 with the defense behind him. I think a pitcher like him is a must get with our infield. 

When all is said and done, I'd love to see Kluber, Keuchel, Ohtani, Heaney, Bundy 

[Pancake Bear]

7 minutes ago, Angels_Make_Me_Drink said:

I've also got my heart set on Kluber. Like previously stated in here, I think he will return to near ace level. I may be in the minority but I would be willing to deal Fletcher for him as much as it pains me to say that. Kluber is a beast and what we need.

Keuchel would be my other option. I think he's more affordable than Bumgarner and healthier than Ryu. Ryu I want no parts of @ the rumored $30 mil per season. Bumgarner's road ERA scares me and I don't think its a fluke. Two seasons in a row with a terrible road ERA. I'll pass on that for the numbers he's looking for. Keuchel at a reasonable 3 year AVV would be a killer #2-3 with the defense behind him. I think a pitcher like him is a must get with our infield. 

When all is said and done, I'd love to see Kluber, Keuchel, Ohtani, Heaney, Bundy 

The Angels need innings, but they also need upside. Bundy will help with the former, Ohtani with the latter. If we bring in two arms, Keuchel and Bumgarner are the two who are likely to be durable and put up the innings you need. Ryu and Kluber are the more risky ones who have higher upside. That’s not to say that Ryu and Kluber can’t be durable or Keuchel and Madbum will necessarily be lower quality innings, just that based on likelihood st the moment that’s more what side each falls into  

I think you probably try to grab one from each list ideally. 

Keuchel or Bumgarner

+ 

Kluber or Ryu

[failos]

4 hours ago, greginpsca said:

Seems all of the top remaining pitchers, all seem to be medical risks. I just hope to hell  that Eppler is looking really close at all those guys medical records and mri's before any deal is made. We don't need to sign guys to our IL list.

Not Keuchel 

[UnrulyManBun27]

Kluber and Bumgarner both seem to have more of that bulldog, tough veteran mentality the rotation is lacking. Bring them both in and we have that in spades. Would love to see the impact that would have on the younger guys in the rotation.

[Stradling]

How is Kluber a medical risk?