How has Eppler performed so far?

[CanadianHalo]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

What grade did you give him?  So if Newcomb becomes average and injury riddled, would you then use that in your analysis of the trade?

Of course but the thread was made today asking to grade Eppler “so far”. In 5 years or hell in 1 year this could be a completely different story. 

Um as far as grade goes... 6? I like what he’s done with the farm, he’s had some prior contracts handcuff him but he’s also had some bad signings when he’s had a little freedom. Like I said, this off season and season will be his make or break. He’s been here for 3 years now, it’s time to see some results at the big league level.

[Second Base]

I give him an 8. 

[CanadianHalo]

6 minutes ago, Blarg said:

You two are doing the pissing match thing.

Daddy will give you your attention once I’m done with your brother here

[Blarg]

Don't be a Canuck. 

[Blarg]

20 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

I give him an 8. 

So did I. For all the good he has done he also planted Valbuena and Espinoza in the lineup.

[cez]

more ALL CAPS and petty bickering please

great thread

[Rally Gorilla]

I gave him a nine.  In a short time, and with limited resources, he has put the team on a path to be a contender again someday.      

Even the moves that didn't work out seemed good to me at the time, given the constraints he had to work with.  Espinoza was a low-risk move that could have given us a solid defender to go along with Simmons.  For a while there, I feel that we had the best up-the-middle defense in baseball.  Unfortunately, Espinoza chose his time with Angels to hit 59 points below his career average...making his defense irrelevant.    

[TroutField]

1 hour ago, CanadianHalo said:

Reading comprehension, get better at it.

You just keep going on about how having 1 pitcher that throws every 5th day and was in A ball with major control problems when we traded him, is more valuable to a franchise than Andrelton Simmons. The logic is sound ...

[CanadianHalo]

6 minutes ago, TroutField said:

You just keep going on about how having 1 pitcher that throws every 5th day and was in A ball with major control problems when we traded him, is more valuable to a franchise than Andrelton Simmons. The logic is sound ...

[kevinb]

I’d say a 5 he has been rebuilding a farm system that was crap. But it hasn’t turned into wins at the major league level yet. We haven’t made the playoffs. So 5 is I think solid. 

[ukyah]

stradling, your one major negative is you take the bait, over and over again. if you guys would just not respond, then it would end in one man's dumb opinion instead of ruining a thread that has plenty of reasonable postings.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I gave him 9. Not every move has worked, but most have. He quickly rebuilt the worst farm system in baseball into one that is very respectable. He brought in Simmons, and he got value back for Kinsler. He makes shrewd moves within the confines of his allowed budget. Now he will have his own field manager.

[Second Base]

I think his rating is skewed because of relativity. I think @Blarg and I rate him the same overall but may have some different reasoning behind it. And I'd like to simplify it for @Dochalo because I doubt he needs a dissertation on this.

But when an 8 stands next to a 4, she looks like a 10.

So when Dipoto came in, it was amazing because we were comparing him to Tony Reagins. And now that Eppler is here, he looks like the smartest man in baseball because we're comparing him to Dipoto. Billy has his strengths and weaknesses like anyone else. Clearly, he's very strong is scouting pitchers, and can also effectively communicate and deploy analytics. He's also strong operating within a budget and is probably the best "farm-builder" (if there is such a thing) that I've ever seen. But the glaring weakness here is that I think when he does spend money, he spends it on the wrong players, and I think he's fallen too in love with run prevention as a way of accruing value. If you hit the ball hard enough, it doesn't matter what kind of defenders there are. 

I hope that sums it up, and doesn't offend anyone. 

[Second Base]

2 hours ago, Blarg said:

So did I. For all the good he has done he also planted Valbuena and Espinoza in the lineup.

It's like the running back that tiptoes through the hole....stop trying to be fancy and just get the job done. I think with Valbuena and Espinosa.....and even Cozart....Eppler was trying to outsmart the rest of baseball by searching for and seeing value where there wasn't any. 

[Docwaukee]

I started out at 7 then changed it to an 8 once I started thinking about it.  

Day -1:  one of the worst farm systems in baseball history that included 1 legit prospect.  Plus a couple of others that were recently drafted before he got there.  Absolutely no money to spend at the major league level.  Almost no international presence. 

So he was essentially tasked with rebuilding the team while attempting to keep them competitive enough to grab a WC spot should things go right.  

Yes, he's made some missteps with his available resources in Valbuena, Espinosa and Cozart (so far).  But if all those players work out, do the halos make the playoffs?  Certainly not in 2016 or 2018.  Maybe a slightly better chance in 2017 if Valbuena and Espinosa are better.  But considering the pitching injuries sustained, likely not as well.  

Yet in the meantime, he's done an excellent job of rebuilding the farm while using minimal prospect currency to supplement the major league club.  The only real player of value he's given up is Newcomb and it was to acquire Simmons who's actually increased his value since being here.  There's an outside chance that Elvin Rodriguez (Upton trade) and Wilkel Hernandez (Kinsler trade) become useful major leaguers.  Rodriguez in particular.  

Going from one of the worst farms in baseball history to at least top half and likely top 10 in three years with minimal outlay otherwise to supplement the major league club is incredible.  On top of that there has been almost zero supplementation from the farm to the major league club from the left overs during the Dipoto era.  It's Barria and Fletcher at the major league level and Ward, Jones, and Suarez as the only prospects with a real chance in our top 30+.  Guys in the top 30 with an outside chance to contribute are Hermosillo, Leo Rivas, Luis Pena, Jake Jewell, Joe Gatto, and Hector Yan.  

Oh and we got Ohtani almost specifically because of Eppler.  

My only mild concern is the mixed track record in the evaluation of major league players and the ones he missed on have something in common.  The value of 'positional versatility'.  Guys he's tried to shove into different positions from where they normally play or guys who can play multiple positions.  Everyone else has worked out at least decently and the reason why the team hasn't been better is because of injury or a lack of resources.  Or Eppler's unwillingness to use some of his resources.  Yet.  

I'll move him to a 9 pretty quickly if he extends Trout regardless of the size of the contract.  

What would get him to a 10?  If he's able to get us into a second wild card without tapping into our top 20 prospects to do so or crippling the long term budget.  I'm not going to overly emphasis the importance of this off season outside of locking up Trout because I think there'd be a fair amount to do to make us a legitimate contender to win the division. 

[Pancake Bear]

12 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I started out at 7 then changed it to an 8 once I started thinking about it.  

Day -1:  one of the worst farm systems in baseball history that included 1 legit prospect.  Plus a couple of others that were recently drafted before he got there.  Absolutely no money to spend at the major league level.  Almost no international presence. 

So he was essentially tasked with rebuilding the team while attempting to keep them competitive enough to grab a WC spot should things go right.  

Yes, he's made some missteps with his available resources in Valbuena, Espinosa and Cozart (so far).  But if all those players work out, do the halos make the playoffs?  Certainly not in 2016 or 2018.  Maybe a slightly better chance in 2017 if Valbuena and Espinosa are better.  But considering the pitching injuries sustained, likely not as well.  

Yet in the meantime, he's done an excellent job of rebuilding the farm while using minimal prospect currency to supplement the major league club.  The only real player of value he's given up is Newcomb and it was to acquire Simmons who's actually increased his value since being here.  There's an outside chance that Elvin Rodriguez (Upton trade) and Wilkel Hernandez (Kinsler trade) become useful major leaguers.  Rodriguez in particular.  

Going from one of the worst farms in baseball history to at least top half and likely top 10 in three years with minimal outlay otherwise to supplement the major league club is incredible.  On top of that there has been almost zero supplementation from the farm to the major league club from the left overs during the Dipoto era.  It's Barria and Fletcher at the major league level and Ward, Jones, and Suarez as the only prospects with a real chance in our top 30+.  Guys in the top 30 with an outside chance to contribute are Hermosillo, Leo Rivas, Luis Pena, Jake Jewell, Joe Gatto, and Hector Yan.  

Oh and we got Ohtani almost specifically because of Eppler.  

My only mild concern is the mixed track record in the evaluation of major league players and the ones he missed on have something in common.  The value of 'positional versatility'.  Guys he's tried to shove into different positions from where they normally play or guys who can play multiple positions.  Everyone else has worked out at least decently and the reason why the team hasn't been better is because of injury or a lack of resources.  Or Eppler's unwillingness to use some of his resources.  Yet.  

I'll move him to a 9 pretty quickly if he extends Trout regardless of the size of the contract.  

What would get him to a 10?  If he's able to get us into a second wild card without tapping into our top 20 prospects to do so or crippling the long term budget.  I'm not going to overly emphasis the importance of this off season outside of locking up Trout because I think there'd be a fair amount to do to make us a legitimate contender to win the division. 

When I say this offseason is important, I mainly mean three things:

- Locking up Trout: I 100% agree this is Priority No.1

- Who he picks as Manager: I'll at least raise an eyebrow if it's Ausmus and I'm curious why he's even interviewing Vizquel, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt; it's an important decision, though, and I want to see how it turns out

- Offseason work on the team: And I agree partly with you in that I'm skeptical we're contending next season - in some ways, I think he can do more to mess up the future this offseason by being too active than in doing less. Point is, what he does or does not do will be important for the future (albeit, not as important as the first two) things.

[mtangelsfan]

7

Mostly for his work on the farm.  As far as the major league team goes, I like the trades but not many of the FA signings.  I think, as another poster said, this is a big off-season.

We will see what this team looks like post-Sosh and that look will be all Eppler.

[DCAngelsFan]

6 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I started out at 7 then changed it to an 8 once I started thinking about it.  

Day -1:  one of the worst farm systems in baseball history that included 1 legit prospect.  Plus a couple of others that were recently drafted before he got there.  Absolutely no money to spend at the major league level.  Almost no international presence. 

So he was essentially tasked with rebuilding the team while attempting to keep them competitive enough to grab a WC spot should things go right.  

(deleted for brevity)

 

Pretty much agree with all of your points - but no one has mentioned Pujols and the ripple effect caused there.  He inherited a contract and a player that he can't move or work around - he can't "fix" 1B, and he can't offload that miserable hit on team payroll.  Absent Pujols, could've just played CJ at 1B, and the team would've been better at no cost at all.  

I also put him at an "8" for the reasons you cite - I've said this before, he came into a miserable, actually hopeless situation -  we had a mediocre team, the farm was trashed, we were in international jail from the Baldoquin signing - (lovely, we ignored the international market for years, then finally wake up, and put ourselves into years of penalty so we can sign a guy who only gets to a major league game if he buys a ticket, vs. signing Guerrero),  payroll was hammered, and we had no significant tradeable assets other than Trout.   

Sounds like he deserves a '10' - but he's not really been able to improve our results and many of his major league decisions just haven't worked the way we hoped.

Extend Trout?  That's worth something, for sure.

But that "8" could easily slip to a 7, even a 6 if the team doesn't improve on-the-field next year.

And there's no room for missing on talent - he has to continue to improve things, to have a good draft, to find undervalued players - and now I don't remember, but haven't we already spent out international pool money for this year?  

The org remains on thin ice - this time next year, we could start talking about him the way we talk about DiPoto ...

 

[Second Base]

7 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I started out at 7 then changed it to an 8 once I started thinking about it.  

Day -1:  one of the worst farm systems in baseball history that included 1 legit prospect.  Plus a couple of others that were recently drafted before he got there.  Absolutely no money to spend at the major league level.  Almost no international presence. 

So he was essentially tasked with rebuilding the team while attempting to keep them competitive enough to grab a WC spot should things go right.  

Yes, he's made some missteps with his available resources in Valbuena, Espinosa and Cozart (so far).  But if all those players work out, do the halos make the playoffs?  Certainly not in 2016 or 2018.  Maybe a slightly better chance in 2017 if Valbuena and Espinosa are better.  But considering the pitching injuries sustained, likely not as well.  

Yet in the meantime, he's done an excellent job of rebuilding the farm while using minimal prospect currency to supplement the major league club.  The only real player of value he's given up is Newcomb and it was to acquire Simmons who's actually increased his value since being here.  There's an outside chance that Elvin Rodriguez (Upton trade) and Wilkel Hernandez (Kinsler trade) become useful major leaguers.  Rodriguez in particular.  

Going from one of the worst farms in baseball history to at least top half and likely top 10 in three years with minimal outlay otherwise to supplement the major league club is incredible.  On top of that there has been almost zero supplementation from the farm to the major league club from the left overs during the Dipoto era.  It's Barria and Fletcher at the major league level and Ward, Jones, and Suarez as the only prospects with a real chance in our top 30+.  Guys in the top 30 with an outside chance to contribute are Hermosillo, Leo Rivas, Luis Pena, Jake Jewell, Joe Gatto, and Hector Yan.  

Oh and we got Ohtani almost specifically because of Eppler.  

My only mild concern is the mixed track record in the evaluation of major league players and the ones he missed on have something in common.  The value of 'positional versatility'.  Guys he's tried to shove into different positions from where they normally play or guys who can play multiple positions.  Everyone else has worked out at least decently and the reason why the team hasn't been better is because of injury or a lack of resources.  Or Eppler's unwillingness to use some of his resources.  Yet.  

I'll move him to a 9 pretty quickly if he extends Trout regardless of the size of the contract.  

What would get him to a 10?  If he's able to get us into a second wild card without tapping into our top 20 prospects to do so or crippling the long term budget.  I'm not going to overly emphasis the importance of this off season outside of locking up Trout because I think there'd be a fair amount to do to make us a legitimate contender to win the division. 

The only thing that would make him a 10 in my book is if many these upside prospects he's drafted so far all make good on their potential......and he extends Trout.  Should those two things happen then the playoffs would take care of themselves. 

[AngelsFaninGA]

7.5. He's done a great job of building the farm and he got us Simmons, Ohtani, and Upton, but he hasn't done a good job building the pitching staff (I think he overvalues the guys we currently have) and the low/mid-tier hitters he's signed to fill out the roster have been abject flops. 

[Angel Oracle]

15 hours ago, CanadianHalo said:

Well considering he hasn’t had one season with the club playing .500 or better baseball it’s tough to say he’s done much good. 

This offseason and upcoming season will be his make or break. I don’t know how you can justify extending him if he has another season of below .500 baseball. 

He’s already been here for 3 years and we’re still roughly 2 years away from competing...

That is the down side to doing it the right way, delayed post-season play while building a strong org.

I would probably give him between an 8 and an 9.  Eppler in the long run >>>>>>>> Dipoto.

Dipoto, the Harold T. Hill of MLB

[Angel Oracle]

13 hours ago, Stradling said:

We traded for the greatest defensive short stop in the history of the game when he was 26 years old, only to see his offense become pretty darn good.  We traded a good pitching prospect that had control issues.  

And said pitcher had a poor second half of 2018.

[UndertheHalo]

I gave him an 8.  If we’re talking about farm development and pushing the team towards current and future trends I think he’s about as good as we could hope for.  It appears he’s drafted well.  I guess we’ll know the truth of that soon enough.  But as much as a fan can tell.  The development of the minor system has been pretty amazing.  Not because the Angels have the best one in baseball.  Obviously they don’t, but the Angels have gone from being historically bad.  Like barren hellscape bad.  To arguably a top 10 system in like 3 years.  This was done with one 10th overall pick.  Pretty remarkable imo.  The Angels embracing analytics fully is a good thing.  It seems he’s going that way.  Also, I think he deserves a ton of credit for getting Ohtani to sign.  Great stuff. 

On the other hand, a lot of the moves at the major league level haven’t been great. I don’t really want to be too critical here because I don’t think he’s had a really tenable situation.  Almost no prospect currency.  He’s been handcuffed by big contracts.  Just not really a good situation.  I do think he could have done better on some of the acquisitions though, so I don’t want to give him a completely free pass. 

This is the big offseason we’ve all been waiting for.  Lots of good FA. He has some depth on the farm to trade from.  We’ll see what happens with Trout.  We’ll see how he does. 

Edited October 19, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[Inside Pitch]

37 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

And said pitcher had a poor second half of 2018.

WAR since trade

Simmons 17.4
Newcomb 3.0

Top 5 for ALL SPs since trade

Sale 19.2
Scherzer 19.1
Kluber 18.0
deGrom 16.2
Verlander 16.1

There have been a TOTAL of 19 pitchers in MLB to put up even 10 WAR total the last three years....

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2018&month=0&season1=2016&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

[Inside Pitch]

I give Eppler an 8...   

All the BS excuses people made up for the previous GM actually apply to Eppler. 

He didn't inherit 3 top 100 prospects on BBA's top 100 list including the best player in MLB, plus Richards, Shoemaker, Grichuk, Cron.    The Dodgers BTW had 2
He didn't inherit an IF of Trumbo, Kendrick, Aybar and Callasp -- all 28 or younger.  
He didn't inherit a rotation of Haren, Weaver, Santana and Chatwood.
He didn't have the option to spend 250 million on a corner IFer, 85 mil on a SP, and then throw away 125 mil on an OF (the last guy likely didn't have much say on Hamilton either).

Eppler took over a team that had become a laughingstock -- the farm was described as maybe the worst he had ever seen by Keith Law.   There was supposed to be dysfunction everywhere, his manager was supposed to be obstinate, his owner a meddlesome control freak...   

All Eppler's done since then is completely rebuild the farm in an era where teams can't spend at will internationally, there is no draft and follow process, and teams can't pay first round money to a 15th rounder.  Granted, the farm's got a ways to go and the best talent is lower in the system but it's no longer so bare bones that it can't be expected contribute to the success of the franchise anytime soon.   All the dysfunction talk has abated.  The constant yammering about the owner has stopped as have the constant leaks of crap to the press...   They haven't won but he's made massive improvements to the franchise and created some financial flexibility that has put them back on the road to winning.

Find the next MS, a person that can lead this team for 5+ years..  Extend Trout...  get them over .500 and he gets an easy 10 from me.  Maybe even an 11.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Inside Pitch