OCR on Scioscia and the next GM

[Troll Daddy]

Seriously, i've been watching Angels baseball for many years , can somebody please tell me you what the organizational philosophy is?

A little help please

[Stradling]

Seriously, i've been watching Angels baseball for many years , can somebody please tell me you what the organizational philosophy is?

A little help please

Well the organizational philosophy used to be swing often, be aggressive in the batters box and the bases, play good defense and be fundamentally sound. I like all of those things. What Dipoto tried to instill was, be patient in the batters box and control the counts. Don't give up outs with stolen base attempts. Look for guys that have on base skills. Have a good combination of younger players with veterans.

What I personally would like to see is guys that could grind out at bats and make pitchers work. I would like to see aggressive, but not stupid base running. If you are going to try and go home on a play where you know it is going to be bang bang, hopefully it is because there is two outs and a guy like Featherston is coming up next. I would like starting pitchers that can throw strikes and keep the ball down. I would like to see a bullpen of live arms that can throw hard and throw strikes. I would like defensive players that aren't reliant on shifts to create their defensive value. What I mean by that is guys that are athletic enough to make very good plays. I am not against the shift, so don't read into it. I just think our defensive metrics of the team is not indicative of how poorly some of our players are defensively (which is a good thing we can mask some real problems).

[Troll Daddy]

Well the organizational philosophy used to be swing often, be aggressive in the batters box and the bases, play good defense and be fundamentally sound. I like all of those things. What Dipoto tried to instill was, be patient in the batters box and control the counts. Don't give up outs with stolen base attempts. Look for guys that have on base skills. Have a good combination of younger players with veterans.

What I personally would like to see is guys that could grind out at bats and make pitchers work. I would like to see aggressive, but not stupid base running. If you are going to try and go home on a play where you know it is going to be bang bang, hopefully it is because there is two outs and a guy like Featherston is coming up next. I would like starting pitchers that can throw strikes and keep the ball down. I would like to see a bullpen of live arms that can throw hard and throw strikes. I would like defensive players that aren't reliant on shifts to create their defensive value. What I mean by that is guys that are athletic enough to make very good plays. I am not against the shift, so don't read into it. I just think our defensive metrics of the team is not indicative of how poorly some of our players are defensively (which is a good thing we can mask some real problems).

Thanks for posting it ... for some reason I thought it was more complicated than that .

[Troll Daddy]

Although, working the count is a lot harder than being said ... if you're not careful the count works you.

[Stradling]

Although, working the count is a lot harder than being said ... if you're not careful the count works you.

Yes Dipoto said he wanted to control the count on both sides of the ball or something like that.

[Docwaukee]

Scioscia doesn't want to be the GM.   He just wants to dictate the organizational philosophy and have someone else put it into action.  

 

Once again, Arte has created a mess by not establishing an appropriate chain of command.  He's given Scioscia the power to manage the team on the field the way he sees fit regardless of the how the GM would like to see it done.  

 

It's backwards as far as I am concerned but if they are going to keep Mike around and he's not really going to change his style then they should go out and get a GM that conforms to that style.  Not saying it's right (because I don't think it is), but if you are going to give the manager that sort of leeway where they don't have to manage the team relative to what the rest of the org is trying to do, then you might as well run the org to best suite the style of play being implemented on the field.  

 

Here is the player that Scioscia wants:

 

.280/.320/.400.  20sbs 

 

Here is the player that Dipoto was trying to give him

 

.250/.340/.400.  2sbs  

[Stradling]

Scioscia doesn't want to be the GM. He just wants to dictate the organizational philosophy and have someone else put it into action.

Once again, Arte has created a mess by not establishing an appropriate chain of command. He's given Scioscia the power to manage the team on the field the way he sees fit regardless of the how the GM would like to see it done.

It's backwards as far as I am concerned but if they are going to keep Mike around and he's not really going to change his style then they should go out and get a GM that conforms to that style. Not saying it's right (because I don't think it is), but if you are going to give the manager that sort of leeway where they don't have to manage the team relative to what the rest of the org is trying to do, then you might as well run the org to best suite the style of play being implemented on the field.

Here is the player that Scioscia wants:

.280/.320/.400. 20sbs

Here is the player that Dipoto was trying to give him

.250/.340/.400. 2sbs

If Dipoto gave him those types of players, and Mike managed the players like that, it would be kinda boring, but also we wouldn't be able to bitch about that side of the ball. As it is, except for times like now, where it is all clicking offensively, this team has been boring as hell to watch hit outside of Trout.

[Puget Sound Angel]

Sosh will not hire a GM. Sosh will hire a puppet.

[Docwaukee]

If Dipoto gave him those types of players, and Mike managed the players like that, it would be kinda boring, but also we wouldn't be able to bitch about that side of the ball. As it is, except for times like now, where it is all clicking offensively, this team has been boring as hell to watch hit outside of Trout.

It's almost as if the players are confused about what they are expected to do.  Do I work the count and try to get on base?  Do I swing at a pitch close to the zone and put the ball in play?  Am I trying to move the runner over or hit a ball hard somewhere?  

[Chuck]

That seriously made me laugh out loud in public.

When you get page 4'd you should quote which post made you laugh out loud in public.

[mrwicked]

Sosh will not hire a GM. Sosh will hire a puppet.

 

will it be a little puppet?

 

[Blarg]

When you get page 4'd you should quote which post made you laugh out loud in public.

 

If I knew I was page ending I would have. Then agaiin most of the posts on this thread are laughable, just not in the same way.

[Troll Daddy]

It's almost as if the players are confused about what they are expected to do. Do I work the count and try to get on base? Do I swing at a pitch close to the zone and put the ball in play? Am I trying to move the runner over or hit a ball hard somewhere?

Nice exaggeration

[Homebrewer]

Hoyer and Theo stressed "work the count and get on base" in their rebuild in Chicago, and amazingly had young players that came up to the majors and hit way more than expected.. while doing just that.

[Docwaukee]

Here are some interesting stats in regards to situational hitting:

 

The Angels had the platoon advantage 50% of the time.  avg was 54% ranking them 20th

 

they had the 5th highest productive out rate yet the fewest opportunities to make productive outs.  

 

Their sac bunt rate of success was 73%.  7th overall.  

 

League avg scoring a runner from third and less than 2 outs.

 

We were third in baseball at outs on the bases.  3rd overall outs at home.  

 

We were 5th in xtra base taken % at 43%

 

We only stole 51 bases at a clip of 60%.  Both 2nd worst in baseball.  

 

Our BABIP was .280.  Worst in baseball.  

 

We have the lowest avg. .247, the third lowest obp .307 and middle of the pack ISO of .150.  

 

Lower 3rd p/pa 3.78.  avg is 3.81.  

 

LD% of 19.7%.  Second worst.  

hard hit ball rate was 25th

opposite field rate was 24th.  

 

So, the most obvious hole is a lack of team speed.  

Secondly, we don't hit the ball very hard.  

 

seems to me that most of our woes are related to a lack of talent.  

[Adam]

My takeaway from this is that I hope Discarcina isn't our 3b coach next year.

 

When he sends them, they get thrown out. When he stops them, they go anyway.

[Troll Daddy]

Hoyer and Theo stressed "work the count and get on base" in their rebuild in Chicago, and amazingly had young players that came up to the majors and hit way more than expected.. while doing just that.

What does work the count mean to you? Baseball 101

[Homebrewer]

Extending the count...Of course this requires something known as pitch recognition, and having an understanding of what the pitcher is trying to accomplish in your particular at bat..

 

It's also called thinking and having a plan.

[Jim]

Extending the count...Of course this requires something known as pitch recognition, and having an understanding of what the pitcher is trying to accomplish in your particular at bat..

It's also called thinking and having a plan.

Agreed, but doesn't that come back to a lack of overall baseball talent on the field.

[mp170.6]

Here are some interesting stats in regards to situational hitting:

 

The Angels had the platoon advantage 50% of the time.  avg was 54% ranking them 20th

 

they had the 5th highest productive out rate yet the fewest opportunities to make productive outs.  

 

Their sac bunt rate of success was 73%.  7th overall.  

 

League avg scoring a runner from third and less than 2 outs.

 

We were third in baseball at outs on the bases.  3rd overall outs at home.  

 

We were 5th in xtra base taken % at 43%

 

We only stole 51 bases at a clip of 60%.  Both 2nd worst in baseball.  

 

Our BABIP was .280.  Worst in baseball.  

 

We have the lowest avg. .247, the third lowest obp .307 and middle of the pack ISO of .150.  

 

Lower 3rd p/pa 3.78.  avg is 3.81.  

 

LD% of 19.7%.  Second worst.  

hard hit ball rate was 25th

opposite field rate was 24th.  

 

So, the most obvious hole is a lack of team speed.  

Secondly, we don't hit the ball very hard.  

 

seems to me that most of our woes are related to a lack of talent.  

 

How do you explain the 2014 Angels who finished No. 1 in runs scored? 

 

It was almost the same team. 

[Stradling]

Howie was good last year. Hamilton was better than anything we have thrown out there in LF. Iannetta had a really good year last year.

[mp170.6]

Howie was good last year. Hamilton was better than anything we have thrown out there in LF. Iannetta had a really good year last year.

 

This year's Angels currently sit at 643 runs scored with four games left to play.  Last year, they scored 773. 

 

Hamilton, Kendrick, and Iannetta don't come close to explaining the huge deficit. 

[tomsred]

How do you explain the 2014 Angels who finished No. 1 in runs scored? 

 

It was almost the same team. 

 

We had a second baseman who could field and hit - Kendrick.  We had a left fielder who played good defense, and was solid - Cowgill.  Iannetta didn't suck as he has this year as a hitter.  Aybar had better year.  The call ups actually helped much more offensively, Navarro, and Green especially, but not this year.

 

Not offensive related, but relevant:  Weaver was still effective.  Jepsen was above average.  Smith was better.  Street didn't get hurt at a critical time.  Wilson was effective and finished the full year.  Shoemaker went 16-4.

 

Damn Stradling - you beat me to it.  I didn't see your response, but interesting that we touched on the same stuff, so it must be true, LOL.

Edited October 1, 2015 by tomsred

[Jay]

seems to me that most of our woes are related to a lack of talent.  

 

thanks Jerry !!!

[mp170.6]

We had a second baseman who could field and hit - Kendrick.  We had a left fielder who played good defense, and was solid - Cowgill.  Iannetta didn't suck as he has this year as a hitter.  Aybar had better year.  The call ups actually helped much more offensively, Navarro, and Green especially, but not this year.

 

Not offensive related, but relevant:  Weaver was still effective.  Jepsen was above average.  Smith was better.  Street didn't get hurt at a critical time.  Wilson was effective and finished the full year.  Shoemaker went 16-4.

 

Damn Stradling - you beat me to it.  I didn't see your response, but interesting that we touched on the same stuff, so it must be true, LOL.

 

Runs scored has nothing to do with defense and pitching, so why use that to refute my point? 

 

Maybe, just maybe, the problem is with the coaching staff like many of us have been saying for years?  You and Stradling will probably reject that notion, I realize that.  One thing you can't really deny though is the horrible consistency year to year under Scioscia's leadership.  This is yet another example of it.