Angels Acquire Kyle Kubitza from the Braves

[Jim]

Young 17 year old arms may or may not pan out. We needed a future 3B.

Yes, filling in the future needs of our team should be, and apparently is, a priority. Good move. 

[NrM]

I remember well that All-Star infield of the future:

 

1B Kotchman - West coast Todd Helton

2B Kendrick - future batting champ

SS Brandon Wood - 40 HR power

3B Dallas McPherson - Heir to Glaus

C Jeff Mathis - The Prophecied One

 

Interesting how Erick Aybar turned out to be the best of the lot, or at least along with Howie.

 

Anyhow, Scotty I have a lot of respect for you and Dave and recognize that you know a lot more about prospects and the Angels farm system than I do. That said, I do think that you and Dave are prone to homerism like any other fan of any club. It is just impossible to be impartial about your favorite ball-club. I think I'm relatively impartial but still have overrated many an Angels prospect (e.g. I thought Kotchman would be a .300+, 20+ HR hitter). Nothing wrong with that, but if you admit that as a fan you are prone to bias then you have the opportunity to be less so.

 

Kotchman, Mathis, Mcpherson and Wood were rated in the top 15-20 on most lists too.

so I wont be surprised if the majority of the current batch of angels prospects ends up struggling.

 

With that being said, for every top prospect that fails, there always seems to be a player who is under the radar that surprises everyone(Napoli , Calhoun, Matt Shoemaker)

Edited January 10, 2015 by Poozy

[NrM]

And for all the Monday-morning quarterbacking regarding Wood, don't his minor league numbers bear a striking resemblance to Miguel Sano, who is universally praised as one of the top prospects in baseball?

 

No one can really blame people for being excited over Wood and Kotchman. They deserved the hype at the time imo.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Poozy

[Dave Saltzer]

I remember well that All-Star infield of the future:

 

1B Kotchman - West coast Todd Helton

2B Kendrick - future batting champ

SS Brandon Wood - 40 HR power

3B Dallas McPherson - Heir to Glaus

C Jeff Mathis - The Prophecied One

 

Interesting how Erick Aybar turned out to be the best of the lot, or at least along with Howie.

 

Anyhow, Scotty I have a lot of respect for you and Dave and recognize that you know a lot more about prospects and the Angels farm system than I do. That said, I do think that you and Dave are prone to homerism like any other fan of any club. It is just impossible to be impartial about your favorite ball-club. I think I'm relatively impartial but still have overrated many an Angels prospect (e.g. I thought Kotchman would be a .300+, 20+ HR hitter). Nothing wrong with that, but if you admit that as a fan you are prone to bias then you have the opportunity to be less so.

 

AJ,

 

I don't mind admitting to having some homerism in my evaluations and reports. I've said many times that hope is the currency of baseball, and, I choose to be optimistic. I'd rather be the type of fan who foresees good things for players than negative things (I really loathe those who appear to relish in the failures of players). Most of the time, I'm pretty right and accurate. And I love it when players like Calhoun and Shoemaker succeed when so many other penned negative reports on them. They become my guys, and they have told me on many occasions that they appreciated the positive press they got when so many others doubted them. That's also why I work so hard to try and get them to come to our Fanfests--so that everyone can see them long before they become Major Leaguers, and we can see them for the people they are.

 

If you are going to evaluate players, here's a secret you have to know: Almost every organization has about 170 guys in the Minors (or more), all of whom are dreaming of making a 25-man roster. Most will NEVER make it. Even all the guys on a Top-10 Prospect list for a team won't make it. So, just like in baseball where failing 7/10 times at the plate is a very good average, scouting and predicting also has a very low success rate. So, you have to ask yourself if you want to be the kind of guy who focuses on the 7/10 failures, or the .300 BA instead. 

 

I personally think that my evaluations are honestly told, putting a player's best foot forward. My rankings are usually pretty spot on with the organization's and work well with the criteria that I have outlined for how I evaluate the players (I've discussed those for the last 2 years).

[Second Base]

Calhoun and Shoemaker are high quality major leaguers, and Brandon Wood and Jeff Mathis are basically washouts. The logical conclusion would be that success cannot be predicted and is random, except that's incorrect.

The right eye at the right place at the right time can paint a picture better than a thousand wrongs. How many times did we read about Trumbo being a AAAA player, Richards being too erratic to find success or Calhoun being a 4th OF from BA, BP and other publications? Did you even hear them mention Randal Grichuk in a positive capacity before he was dealt? How about Mike Morin?

But your more localized sites saw more, and made sure you knew about these guys. And what's the difference between reading a scouting report from AW or MWAH versus BP or BA?

Easy, an unaffiliated talent scout that's paid very little watches a player once and makes a prediction on his future, versus an unaffiliated talent scout that's paid nothing watches a player several times in one year and makes a prediction.

I trust Dave, and I trust myself more than I trust the other sites. Just about the only big ones I've found to not be garbage is John Sickels and Frankie Pilliere.

[YouthofToday]

Does Tony Reagins still receive a paycheck from the Angels every 2 weeks?

[ten ocho recon scout]

Well, Dipoto did trade away our only black guy.

another reason to sign moncada..

[Inside Pitch]

But it isn't like Angels fans were alone in their love of Kotchman. The "experts" and publications loved him too. Which is totally understandable, given his .981 OPS in AA-AAA as a 21-year old.

 

Scouts loved him, saber-scouts loved him.  He looked like he was going to be the player his tools and numbers projected him to be right up until when he took that ball to the side of the head sliding into 2B..   He was never the same player.   I'm not saying that freak play ruined him but up until that point he was starting to look like he would live up to his hype.  But Kotch is one of those guys who was pretty much universally praised unlike Wood who always had some really glaring red flags on the saber end of things.

 

The guy I was always sad about was D-Mac -- I always hate seeing him lumped in with the busts, he didn't flame out so much as he went Sam Bowie and had his body betray him.

[Dave Saltzer]

Calhoun and Shoemaker are high quality major leaguers, and Brandon Wood and Jeff Mathis are basically washouts. The logical conclusion would be that success cannot be predicted and is random, except that's incorrect.

The right eye at the right place at the right time can paint a picture better than a thousand wrongs. How many times did we read about Trumbo being a AAAA player, Richards being too erratic to find success or Calhoun being a 4th OF from BA, BP and other publications? Did you even hear them mention Randal Grichuk in a positive capacity before he was dealt? How about Mike Morin?

But your more localized sites saw more, and made sure you knew about these guys. And what's the difference between reading a scouting report from AW or MWAH versus BP or BA?

Easy, an unaffiliated talent scout that's paid very little watches a player once and makes a prediction on his future, versus an unaffiliated talent scout that's paid nothing watches a player several times in one year and makes a prediction.

I trust Dave, and I trust myself more than I trust the other sites. Just about the only big ones I've found to not be garbage is John Sickels and Frankie Pilliere.

Agreed. We took the time to look PAST the stats. For example, with Shoemaker, a lot of his ERA in the minors was inflated due to poor defending and bad calls. By getting to know him, I learned what was and what was not working. The major publications only saw that he was an undrafted player (the ultimate curse) and never looked at what he did, how he did it, or with whom he played.

 

With Calhoun, his work ethic was so much higher than most of his peers. His attitude and mental makeup was immediately noticeable. His tools may not have shown to be as high, but getting to know him, I knew that he'd get everything out of all that he had and would be a success.

 

With Trumbo, his drive and intelligence stood out. Had he stayed here, I expected him to become the go-to guy for all the reporters. There's a reason why he's so well liked, even if all the major publications didn't consider him a real prospect for so long.

[Broad Street]

One thing nobody has mentioned is, with Kubitza set to start the season at AAA, we could potentially look to move Freese around the deadline. We're obviously not bringing him back and if Kubitza hits well enough in AAA to show he can match or beat Freese's production (not exactly the hardest thing in the world to do), maybe we can move Freese and get something in return instead of seeing him walk for nothing.

I could see this as a huge possibility, even if we are in contention. Freeze is going to get a large check from someone at the end of the season, and it's not going to be us. Why not get something in return if you have someone just as good or maybe even better?

[Broad Street]

Calhoun and Shoemaker are high quality major leaguers, and Brandon Wood and Jeff Mathis are basically washouts. The logical conclusion would be that success cannot be predicted and is random, except that's incorrect.

The right eye at the right place at the right time can paint a picture better than a thousand wrongs. How many times did we read about Trumbo being a AAAA player, Richards being too erratic to find success or Calhoun being a 4th OF from BA, BP and other publications? Did you even hear them mention Randal Grichuk in a positive capacity before he was dealt? How about Mike Morin?

But your more localized sites saw more, and made sure you knew about these guys. And what's the difference between reading a scouting report from AW or MWAH versus BP or BA?

Easy, an unaffiliated talent scout that's paid very little watches a player once and makes a prediction on his future, versus an unaffiliated talent scout that's paid nothing watches a player several times in one year and makes a prediction.

I trust Dave, and I trust myself more than I trust the other sites. Just about the only big ones I've found to not be garbage is John Sickels and Frankie Pilliere.

Where is Trumbo? Is he still with the D-Backs?

[ukyah]

another reason to sign moncada..

 

an obvious fugazi.

[Troll Daddy]

I could see this as a huge possibility, even if we are in contention. Freeze is going to get a large check from someone at the end of the season, and it's not going to be us. Why not get something in return if you have someone just as good or maybe even better?

That's works if you're out of contention ... otherwise it's a horrible idea.

I love his name and looking forward to his success.

[ten ocho recon scout]

an obvious fugazi.

fuggitabout it

[ettin]

On 1/8/2015 at 6:07 PM, ettin said:

Kubitza could be our #2 hitter in the very near future. Knows how to take a walk which is something the team values.

Sad to Ricardo go though. But hey you got to pay to play!

 

On 1/8/2015 at 6:11 PM, wopphil said:

Sucks to lose Sanchez, but at 17 he had a long, long way to go.

 

On 1/8/2015 at 6:12 PM, Mile High Dreams said:

So...move Cowart to catcher?

 

On 1/8/2015 at 6:13 PM, Chuckster70 said:

Kyle Kubitza, 3b

 

 

 

 

Born: July 15, 1990. B-T: L-R. Ht.: 6-3. Wt.: 215. Drafted: Texas State, 2011 (3rd round). Signed by: John Barron.

 

 

 

 

 

Few players have developed more impressively over the last few years in the organization than Kubitza, whose brother Aaron pitches in the Tigers system. The highest-drafted position player in Texas State history blossomed in his third full pro season in 2014 at Double-A Mississippi. In addition to hitting 35 points above his career average, he led the Southern League in on-base percentage (.405) and walks (55), placed second in triples (11) and ranked fourth in runs (76). A fiery player, Kubitza combines a smooth line-drive swing from the left side with one of the best eyes at the plate in the organization. His power has increased with experience and he uses his quick wrists to drive the ball in the gaps. He can be exploited with a minor hitch in his swing, and he can be too patient with inconsistent umpires, leading to high strikeout totals. Though not a quick-twitch athlete, Kubitza runs well with excellent instincts on the basepaths. He has one of the strongest infield arms in the game, with soft hands that suit him at third base. He moves well to his left but tends to boot the occasional routine ball.

 

 

On 1/8/2015 at 6:19 PM, bloodbrother said:

Well, they have a 3B prospect now at least. Looks like he can become a nice solid average player which is good enough at the 3B position. Is he good defensively? If he can just be an average hitter with good defensive skills, he'll be very valuable to this team going forward

 

It sucks to lose Sanchez but he's so far away from the majors that I'm not really worrying about losing him and will probably just completely forget about him altogether by the time he eventually does(if he does) make it to the bigs

 

On 1/8/2015 at 6:20 PM, SoWhat said:

What an offseason by Dipoto. He's done more than enough to warrant an extension

 

On 1/8/2015 at 6:21 PM, OregonLAA said:

Sucks to Sanchez go but guys who are years away are so risky. Who was that lefty who was our #1 prospect and never even made it to the majors? It was just a few years ago. I think he's out of the game now

 

On 1/8/2015 at 6:24 PM, Chuckster70 said:

 

Trevor Reckling! 

 

Here's BA's top Angels prospects for the last decade. They had him #2 the same year we ranked him #1. 

 

TOP PROSPECTS OF THE DECADE Year Player, Pos. 2014 Org. 2005 Casey Kotchman, 1b Out of baseball 2006 Brandon Wood, ss Sugar Land (Atlantic) 2007 Brandon Wood, ss Sugar Land (Atlantic) 2008 Brandon Wood, ss Sugar Land (Atlantic) 2009 Nick Adenhart, rhp Deceased 2010 Hank Conger, c Angels 2011 Mike Trout, of Angels 2012 Mike Trout, of Angels 2013 Kaleb Cowart, 3b Angels 2014 Taylor Lindsey, 2b Padres

 

On 1/8/2015 at 6:25 PM, Lhalo said:

 

Heard that town has great vodka.

 

On 1/8/2015 at 6:28 PM, Inside Pitch said:

 

 

These kinds of trades take a lot of nads.... or stupidity.   With Sanchez, there seems to be so much upside but at 17, there is so much more risk, particularly after the increase in velocity.  I think you may end up liking Kubicza more than you think.  He's not young but he wasn't really old for the league and those triple slash lines are actually VERY impressive given the park he played in.  His home park makes Arkansas look downright hitter friendly.   HR rates of 73/58 (100 being average), runs, 2Bs/3Bs, LD rates -- all below 100...    Check these out http://statcorner.com/team/430/2014/Mississippi%20Braves

 

Seems like a clear case of trading away a high ceiling for a very high floor..   

 

On 1/8/2015 at 6:38 PM, ettin said:

Gubicza meet Kubitza

 

On 1/8/2015 at 6:54 PM, HaloCory22 said:

All you white people look alike.

 

On 1/8/2015 at 7:04 PM, wopphil said:

Kubitza is a very interesting prospect. He has improved dramatically at every new level, which seems quite rare.

 

On 1/8/2015 at 7:51 PM, Inside Pitch said:

Kubiza is being ranked as the number 7 prospect in the Angels system by MLB.com.   Kinda interesting to see that the top 7 prospects in the system are recent additions to the organization.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2014/#list=ana

 

On 1/8/2015 at 7:55 PM, Dochalo said:

I like this deal.  Granted, Sanchez could end up a #1, but that is four years away and Kubitza has potential to help this year and certainly next year.  

 

he's gonna hit a gillion hrs at SLC and everyone will be clamoring for a call up sooner than later.  

 

On 1/8/2015 at 9:02 PM, Chuckster70 said:

Cowart and Green have no business being in the top 10. There are much better prospects in our system.

Green has upside but you can have that all day long but if you can't get on the field, put in a full season of ball and stay healthy...

 

On 1/8/2015 at 9:27 PM, Taylor said:

It's funny how many people get so butthurt every time the Angels trade away a precious prospect.

 

On 1/8/2015 at 10:05 PM, Angelsjunky said:

For the record, I like the trade. Sanchez has a lot of upside, but with a 17-year old there's a high chance of flameout. Kubitza seems on the verge of being a major leaguer with floor of a solid bench player and a ceiling of an above average starter.

 

That MLB.com list isn't so good. I agree that Cowart shouldn't be in the top 10, certainly behind Bedrosian, Yarbrough, and perhaps Delgado and Featherston at this point.

 

On 1/8/2015 at 10:27 PM, wopphil said:

I am guessing this trade eliminates any chance of Moncado. With Kubitza, Yarbrough/Featherton, and Baldoquin, we now have a potential future infield.

 

On 1/9/2015 at 2:28 AM, Dochalo said:

 

 

his swing is somewhat Chipper esque.  I'm no scout, but his swing is pretty nice once he gets his hands into position.  He does some weird swirly hitchy thing with his hands as a timing mechanism.   Lots of guys start high, drop down, and then come back up but his seems a little more noisy.

 

Anyway, I think I'll stick to my day job.  

 

This will be the first time in the Dipoto era where we will likely get to see what kind of skill he and his scouting team have in regards to adding young unproven or less proven position players and their actual impact .  Up until now, he's added Pujos, Hamilton, Freese and Iannetta.  All established guys.  

 

Now we will likely get to see some new young blood trying to earn pt.  

 

On 1/9/2015 at 2:42 AM, laagamer said:

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice

 

On 1/9/2015 at 3:07 AM, Tyler said:

 

I get an Eric Hinske vibe.

 

On 1/9/2015 at 3:20 AM, Butcher'd said:

I'm excited about this kid. He really seems to recognize breaking stuff early. He can be really good if he grows into his power a little. I'm thinking .260/.350/.440 annually from him. Above average 3B

 

On 1/9/2015 at 3:24 AM, Dochalo said:

It seems the power ceiling on this kid is higher that what you'd get from just looking at his numbers.  But yeah, he's gonna whiff a shitload. 

 

On 1/9/2015 at 3:36 AM, Richard said:

Was thinking Matt Carpenter kind of projection.

 

On 1/9/2015 at 8:57 AM, Angelsjunky said:

I love the walks. Kubitza is the type of less heralded prospect that surprises at the major league level - think Napoli or Calhoun. I'm getting that sort of vibe.

 

I figure that he'll get at least 150 or so major league plate appearances this year, maybe more if there's an injury. But Scioscia will want to see him, and they'll want him to get a taste of the show so that he has a chance to adjust and contribute next year.

 

On 1/9/2015 at 9:58 AM, arch stanton said:

I'm glad to see the influx of lefty bats and especially glad to see one in the infield.

 

On 1/9/2015 at 1:09 PM, Chuckster70 said:

 

"He has one of the strongest infield arms in the game, with soft hands that suit him at third base. He moves well to his left but tends to boot the occasional routine ball."

 

He's going to be our future 3B, period. 

 

On 1/9/2015 at 1:56 PM, AngelsLakersFan said:

 

We traded a high ceiling guy for a sure bet. Kubitza will be a starting third basemen soon, maybe even a league average one. The pitcher we gave up could be an ace, but maybe he blows out his arm or never quite puts it all together and never makes it. It's hard to say at 17 - he's definitely on the fast track right now though.

 

On 1/9/2015 at 3:40 PM, ten ocho recon scout said:

I dont know a ton (nothing) about sanchez, but reading what he 'could' be is something i would like to have held on to. If he truly projects as a number 1/2, i would have preferred to sign moncada and save the pitcher. But everyone is correct in that he could be out of baseball in 4 years just as well

 

On 1/9/2015 at 3:58 PM, totdprods said:

What a great trade! Sanchez may have huge potential, but he was years away. We needed a young 3B prospect badly.

Angels can replace Sanchez's potential...all they need to do is acquire a young lefty with #1-2 potential via draft, trade, or international signing within the next 3-4 years who would be as far along as Sanchez would have been. You can argue that between Skaggs, Heaney, and Newcombe that they already have replaced Sanchez.

 

On 1/9/2015 at 4:00 PM, totdprods said:

Also, has Dipoto traded away anyone, prospect or otherwise, that has actually improved or flourished elsewhere? I can't really think of any.

Seems like anyone he has dealt has either dropped off or remained comparable to when they left.

It felt like anyone Reagins shipped out or let walk improved.

 

On 1/9/2015 at 4:26 PM, tdawg87 said:

Don't like losing Sanchez but this was a trade that needed to be made. Dipoto getting more BP depth is just icing on the cake.

I'm betting Kubitza will at least be a wash with Freese. Even if he can't match Freese offensively he'll likely be much better with the glove. And he costs a lot less.

 

On 1/9/2015 at 5:11 PM, Inside Pitch said:

Giving up Sanchez stinks but it's the cost of doing business.   Much if his upside is based on what he is doing at age 17, the problem is that's also where all the risk is -- because he's 17.  He could turn into Johan Santana, or Joe Torres, there a heck of a lot more Joe Torres walking around than Santanas...   Third base is a position of extreme scarcity of late, and the Angels were facing a 2016 where they might have to spend, even overspend to retain a guy like Freese or spend a year or 5 playing guys out of position or tinkering with a bunch of stiffs.  Kubitza at his worst is a safety net they just didn't have.

 

On 1/10/2015 at 6:12 AM, SoWhat said:

The more research I do on Kubitza, the more worried I get. He doesn't hit for much power and his low CON%, high K% scare me 

 

On 1/10/2015 at 7:41 AM, Chuckster70 said:

He's got raw power and projects to hit for more pop down the road. 50 extra bases last season. 6'3, 200+ lbs. He hit almost .300 this past season too so he's trending in the right direction.

 

On 1/10/2015 at 8:30 AM, Inside Pitch said:

 

Where are you getting the contact rate information from?  Curious to see what those numbers look like.   As far as power goes, 50 of his 130 base hits went for extra bases, he did that in a park that deflates extra base hits.  His ISO was .175, basically the same figure Calhoun produced.  Given the state of AL 3B, a guy capable of legit 15 HR power might be considered a boon.

 

On 1/10/2015 at 9:05 AM, Revad said:

I look forward to your comments on them once you get to see Kubitza and Baldoquin. I do get excited when I see the Angels this well set up for the future, I can't recall a time things looked so rosy for the Halos. Deep pockets, solid MLB roster and some good prospects.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/01/mariners-sign-yoshihisa-hirano.html

I agree.

God we are a bunch of fucking idiots.

[A Dozen Hermosillos]

On 1/10/2015 at 1:11 PM, Inside Pitch said:

 

Scouts loved him, saber-scouts loved him.  He looked like he was going to be the player his tools and numbers projected him to be right up until when he took that ball to the side of the head sliding into 2B..   He was never the same player.   I'm not saying that freak play ruined him but up until that point he was starting to look like he would live up to his hype.  But Kotch is one of those guys who was pretty much universally praised unlike Wood who always had some really glaring red flags on the saber end of things.

 

The guy I was always sad about was D-Mac -- I always hate seeing him lumped in with the busts, he didn't flame out so much as he went Sam Bowie and had his body betray him.

His swing was so bad. I suppose it has worked in the past with many, but it seemed like he struggled to get solid contact. I remember so much over swinging, with weak grounders to the infield. 

[Lou]

On January 12, 2020 at 11:22 AM, Lou said:

I miss Kyle Kubitza 

 

[Docwaukee]

Sanchez is actually still a mildly interesting prospect.  He's only entering his age 23 season and had a solid year at AA in 2019.  50% GB rate.  3.40 FIP.  8.32 k/9.  And he's yet to be tried out in relief.  According to a scouting report from last year he's still low 90's and can touch 95 with a really good curve yet no mechanical consistency.  

He actually sound like a guy I could see Eppler grabbing.  Throw him in for shorter stints to see if the velo plays up and his mechanics settle down.  

[AngelsFaninGA]

Big move. I'm really excited about this one

[Angel Oracle]

36 minutes ago, ettin said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/01/mariners-sign-yoshihisa-hirano.html

I agree.

God we are a bunch of fucking idiots.

What?   I didn't chime in?   I'm slipping.

[ettin]

1 minute ago, Angel Oracle said:

What?   I didn't chime in?   I'm slipping.

Or just getting smarter and smarter than the rest of us AO!

[zenmaster]

On 1/8/2015 at 7:27 PM, wopphil said:

I am guessing this trade eliminates any chance of Moncado. With Kubitza, Yarbrough/Featherton, and Baldoquin, we now have a potential future infield.

This was the best one here. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

So what the heck went wrong with Kubitza? I don't think any of us had expectations of stardom but we all seemed to collectively expect a lot more than we received.

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

So what the heck went wrong with Kubitza? I don't think any of us had expectations of stardom but we all seemed to collectively expect a lot more than we received.

we were desperate for farm talent.  At the time, out top 5 was Alcantara, Gatto, Nate Smith, Baldoquin, and Ward.  Followed by Kubitza, Jones, Cowart, Julio Garcia, Jewell, Nat Delgado, Mahle, Chad Hinshaw, Todd Cunningham, and Rhoades.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

Just now, Dochalo said:

we were desperate for farm talent.  At the time, out top 5 was Alcantara, Gatto, Nate Smith, Baldoquin, and Ward.  Followed by Kubitza, Jones, Cowart, Julio Garcia, Jewell, Nat Delgado, Mahle, Chad Hinshaw, Todd Cunningham, and Rhoades.  

Yeah, but I don't think he was brought in for farm depth, he was brought in to be the starting third basemen within a year.