Andrew Heaney to Angels for Howie Kendrick

[mtangelsfan]

To not be ecstatic about this trade is to be completely short-sighted. It's arguable whether they got better or worse for 2015, but they almost certainly put themselves in a better position for the next few years.

 

No, it is really not arguable.  Kendrick is better than Green.  If he wasn't, Green would have received a lot more playing time last season.

[Angel Oracle]

You guys are not appreciating (1) Headley's defensive value, or (2) the fact that offense has been reduced so severely that a .700 OPS from a premium position is quite good (when combined with excellent defense).

If we are indeed at a point where a .700 OPS and good 3B defense gets you 4 years/$44 million, something is wrong in MLB.

[Richard]

If we are indeed at a point where a .700 OPS and good 3B defense gets you 4 years/$44 million, something is wrong in MLB.

 

He apparently has a 4/60 offer from someone. I hope it's not the Angels. He always seems to be hurt or has a nagging injury and has only slugged .400 or over three times in his career.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Richard

[WallyWorld]

No, it is really not arguable.  Kendrick is better than Green.  If he wasn't, Green would have received a lot more playing time last season.

 

We've never seen a full season of Grant Green.

Let's say he's not quite as good as Howie - isn't a slight drop-off at one position and big gain in another an overall positive gain? 

[wopphil]

No, it is really not arguable. Kendrick is better than Green. If he wasn't, Green would have received a lot more playing time last season.

Actually it is arguable because (1) Heaney might provide more value than Kendrick in 2015, and (2) we are, in fact, arguing about it.

[Butcher'd]

No, it is really not arguable.  Kendrick is better than Green.  If he wasn't, Green would have received a lot more playing time last season.

 

uhh yeah it is arguable. For all you know Heaney pitches like a solid 3 and Green hits .280 next year with adequate defense. Plus, this trade frees up cash toimprove at the trade deadline

[mtangelsfan]

I am not making an argument about long term, I'm pretty sure it will end up being a solid trade that way.  All I am saying is without a proven person taking over for Kendrick, the team is not as good for 2015.

 

Overall it is a very good trade. 

[Butcher'd]

I am not making an argument about long term, I'm pretty sure it will end up being a solid trade that way.  All I am saying is without a proven person taking over for Kendrick, the team is not as good for 2015.

 

Overall it is a very good trade. 

 

So do you just never give a prospect a chance in your opionion? Theyre going to give Ruteledge and Green every chance to perform adequetely. if they don't they will trade for someone who can at the trading deadline. I'm not worried about this at all. It's december

[ten ocho recon scout]

It's in the ESPN rumors (grain of salt) but they suggested flipping CJ to Miami for Haren. The thought process is that Haren has said he will retire if he doesn't play in LA, so it is better for Miami to get something for him. From the Angels perspective, it would clear a ton of $ off the books and they might be able to make a run at one of these FA P. Now, I'm not sure Miami is keen on taking on all that salary, but it seems like they are trying to field a competitive team, so who knows.

Depends if cj can realistically bounce back. I personally think he can. That said, the money saved would almost be worth doing and stashing haren away as the 6th starter.

[WallyWorld]

All I am saying is without a proven person taking over for Kendrick, the team is not as good for 2015.

 

Proven people are always better than unproven? I knew the Angels shouldn't have given Trout a shot.

For f's sake man, listen to logic.

[211275]

Grant Green to play 2nd? WTF? We are going from the team with the best record in the majors to a team that won't even make the playoffs this coming year because there will be a bunch of kids and unproven players starting. Giving up a proven big leaguer for a kid with potential who hasn't proved a single thing yet is beyond stupid.

 

[mtangelsfan]

LOL, logic says a player who has never put up stats like Howie isn't going to do that.  Is it possible?  I guess, it is also possible for Trout to start sucking all of the sudden.

 

I can't believe you are comparing Green to Trout.

[WallyWorld]

*smacks forehead* 

[wopphil]

LOL, logic says a player who has never put up stats like Howie isn't going to do that. Is it possible? I guess, it is also possible for Trout to start sucking all of the sudden.

I can't believe you are comparing Green to Trout.

You said it wasn't "arguable." Clearly, it is. Also, this isn't an argument over Green vs. Kendrick, it is an argument over Heaney plus Kendrick's replacement vs. Kendrick. Not a single person on here would argue or has argued that Green is superior to Kendrick and an upgrade over Kendrick for 2015. Edited December 11, 2014 by wopphil

[mtangelsfan]

You said it wasn't "arguable." Clearly, it is. Also, this isn't an argument over Green vs. Kendrick, it is an argument over Heaney plus Kendrick's replacement vs. Kendrick. Not a single person on here would argue or has argued that Green is superior to Kendrick and an upgrade over Kendrick for 2015.

 

ha!  I guess 1 + 1 = 2 is arguable for some people. 

 

and you might want to check with wallyworld regarding the statement in bold.

Edited December 11, 2014 by mtangelsfan

[mtangelsfan]

*smacks forehead* 

 

smartest thing you've said today.

[tdawg87]

ha!  I guess 1 + 1 = 2 is arguable for some people. 

 

and you might want to check with wallyworld regarding the statement in bold.

 

Dude, you're better than this. Just...just stop.

[Brandon]

I'm indifferent with the deal.

 

Overall, I think getting the value they did for a 2nd baseman not named Cano is pretty amazing, just looking purely at acquisition. Howie is solid and money wise is even better, but 31 and only a year left. i can't believe the club got a legit top prospect for him. Going into the offseason any trade talks around Howie were hoping to simply get back end help. So the reality of getting a potential #2 that isn't too far out is really a steal.

 

Howie is a solid pro and a top 5 2nd baseman (purely speaking value and considering $/production), but I don't feel the drop off from a replacement is so off that it makes this deal bogus or off. What helps, at least for me, is I don't really value the 2nd base position and think you're replacing him with maybe an average 2nd baseman (I'm guessing Green at this point), but an average 2nd baseman in this league is actually not bad when you look around the league.

 

This is the kind of thought process and moves really good teams make. I can't be mad at that and hope Heaney works out for us. If we had a weaker lineup I'd probably hate this deal, but we are still in good shape.

[mtangelsfan]

Dude, you're better than this. Just...just stop.

 

[mtangelsfan]

I'm indifferent with the deal.

 

Overall, I think getting the value they did for a 2nd baseman not named Cano is pretty amazing, just looking purely at acquisition. Howie is solid and money wise is even better, but 31 and only a year left. i can't believe the club got a legit top prospect for him. Going into the offseason any trade talks around Howie were hoping to simply get back end help. So the reality of getting a potential #2 that isn't too far out is really a steal.

 

Howie is a solid pro and a top 5 2nd baseman (purely speaking value and considering $/production), but I don't feel the drop off from a replacement is so off that it makes this deal bogus or off. What helps, at least for me, is I don't really value the 2nd base position and think you're replacing him with maybe an average 2nd baseman (I'm guessing Green at this point), but an average 2nd baseman in this league is actually not bad when you look around the league.

 

This is the kind of thought process and moves really good teams make. I can't be mad at that and hope Heaney works out for us. If we had a weaker lineup I'd probably hate this deal, but we are still in good shape.

 

I agree with this post completely.  My only true concern is run prevention.  The Angels experienced the cost of that 2 years ago.  The infield with Freese and Green is simply not that good defensively.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Definetely gonna miss howies glove. But i think finding a glove 2B is gonna be a lot easier than finding a bonafide solid SP with club control

[Brandon]

I guess we'll find out. I don't think the defensive drop off is that much, but I'm curious to see if not only do I eat crow, but if I took Howie's D for granted all these years......he just always seemed to make the plays he was suppose to.

 

Our run differential will still be really solid, if not towards the top of MLB again......probably not #1 again though.

[eaterfan]

I think this is a good trade but people are either over estimating how good Green will be or underestimating how good Howie will be next year. Howie had been a top 5 second baseman over the last 3 seasons and its just getting to the end of his prime. Those guys don't just fall off of trees.

The Angels needed pitching, especially young pitching. This is a good deal but let's not pretend losing Kendrick won't hurt.

[ten ocho recon scout]

^best way to put it

Its probably (because who knows with prospects) a great move long term, but could be a bad one short term.

It sucks though if you (like me) were a howie fan. He was always pretty underrated on here

[Richard]

Don't worry guys. Jerry is working on a deal to acquire Zobrist as we speak.

 

 

...but seriously, Zobrist would be sick.