Tigers trade Prince Fielder for Ian Kinsler

[m0nkey]

Yeah that was my point. Poor delivery by me

[Mark68]

I don't think Fielder is as washed up as some people do, but the people panicking about this must not have watched any postseason baseball this year.  He was Brandon Wood-esque at the plate.

Who cares how bad he's been in the postseason? He's gotten there, right? He'll probably be getting there again.

[stevestevens]

Is fielder going to continue to wear his big sweatshirts under his jersey in Texas? 

[Oz27]

I don't care how Fielder was in the postseason, I care how he was overall...a 1.7 WAR player. Over 8 full seasons in the MLB, he has one excellent season, two very good ones, a pretty good one, three mediocre ones and a bad one. Only 3 out of 8 times has he had a WAR above 3.5. He's gigantic, seemingly declining and was never THAT good anyway. And you're telling me Texas effectively just signed him to a 7-year, $138-million contract?

 

That, my friends, is brilliant. Even they are capable of stupid moves...thank God for that.

[VariousCrap]

Despite what Bruce, Chuck and others are saying, this was a good trade for both teams.  The Rangers are going to be a better team offensively with Fielder on their team.  To doubt that is just wishful thinking by Angel fans who wouldn't give the Rangers their due no matter what.  The Tigers are going to benefit because now they can extend Max and Miggy.  With their pitching staff, they can take the offensive loss from trading from Fielder to Kinsler in the line-up.

 

That said, I agree with Chuck and others in regards to the Angels only being 3-4 arms away from being able to hang against the Rangers and the A's.  If the Angels can get Smith and Howell (who they are rumored to be very interested in) and then two good #3 type of starting pitchers, I like this teams chances against any team.

[Mark68]

I still like Pujols over the next few years over Fielder if he's truly healthy. Beyond that, I don't know. But of the two, I have more faith in Pujols performing at a higher level at the DH spot toward the end of both of their contracts. I think Fielder will wither away in that Texas summer heat and his weight will continue to be an issue and risk for injury.

Yes, Fielder's weight has been a huge injury risk thus far.

 

It might actually be in Texas, but then again, Detroit (and Milwaukee) in mid-summer aren't exactly cool. Arlington's hotter, but not more humid.

 

So far, two years into their respective contracts, Fielder>>>>>>>Pujols.

[Oz27]

"So far, two years into their respective contracts, Fielder>>>>>>>Pujols."

 

Ah yes, comparing him to Albert Pujols. What a stellar way to evaluate baseball transactions. Signing Mathis to a 1 year, $12 million deal would be much less detrimental than the Pujols signing. Shall we do that too?

[Mark68]

I don't care how Fielder was in the postseason, I care how he was overall...a 1.7 WAR player. Over 8 full seasons in the MLB, he has one excellent season, two very good ones, a pretty good one, three mediocre ones and a bad one. Only 3 out of 8 times has he had a WAR above 3.5. He's gigantic, seemingly declining and was never THAT good anyway. And you're telling me Texas effectively just signed him to a 7-year, $138-million contract?

 

That, my friends, is brilliant. Even they are capable of stupid moves...thank God for that.

Interesting....

 

The guy's worst season, while going through a divorce, had him at 1.7 WAR, and an .819 OPS, a year after he had a .940 OPS, and he's seemingly declining?

 

The last time Albert Pujols had an OPS as high as .940 was four seasons ago, and he has been declining every season since. Yes, he was injured last year, but what was his excuse in 2011 or 2012?

[Mark68]

"So far, two years into their respective contracts, Fielder>>>>>>>Pujols."

 

Ah yes, comparing him to Albert Pujols. What a stellar way to evaluate baseball transactions. Signing Mathis to a 1 year, $12 million deal would be much less detrimental than the Pujols signing. Shall we do that too?

Apples to apples, both were major free agent acquisitions at the same position in the same year.

 

Comparing Pujols to Mathis would be more like apples to....kumquats.

[Oz27]

Interesting....

 

The guy's worst season, while going through a divorce, had him at 1.7 WAR, and an .819 OPS, a year after he had a .940 OPS, and he's seemingly declining?

 

The last time Albert Pujols had an OPS as high as .940 was four seasons ago, and he has been declining every season since. Yes, he was injured last year, but what was his excuse in 2011 or 2012?

What is the relevance to Pujols when evaluating whether Fielder is declining or not? It's like saying global warming can't be happening because I just had a nice slice of cheesecake. But since you're intent on doing it, Pujols has had a WAR below 5 once, Fielder has been above 5 once. So yeah, that evidence you're using is laughably selective.

 

Pujols has declined at an alarming rate and the long-term outlook is pretty bleak. That has nothing to do with Prince Fielder's circumstances or future career path.

[Mark68]

What is the relevance to Pujols when evaluating whether Fielder is declining or not? It's like saying global warming can't be happening because I just had a nice slice of cheesecake. But since you're intent on doing it, Pujols has had a WAR below 5 once, Fielder has been above 5 once. So yeah, that evidence you're using is laughably selective.

 

Pujols has declined at an alarming rate and the long-term outlook is pretty bleak. That has nothing to do with Prince Fielder's circumstances or future career path.

Speaking of selective...why use 5 WAR as your cutoff? Is it because there were two seasons where Fielder was JUST under 5 (4.6 in 2011 & 4.9 in 2012...just two seasons ago)? Going from 4.9 to 1.7 WAR in one year, a year in which the player in question was going through off-field issues is evidence of a decline? Maybe he just had a bad year.

 

Divorce has an effect on most people that go through it. That effect is most likely magnified when you are a public figure with millions to lose. I've been through it, and while I'm certainly not a public figure and I really didn't have anything to lose (half of nothing is nothing), it was still hard.

[Brent Maguire]

His natural position was 3rd base. That is the position he played as a Marlin and as a Tiger. He had never played the position before the 2009 season.

Yeah I know that. Should've clarified I meant a more natural position for him now. That was also before he put on a ton of weight and it's pretty clear he's more suited for 1st base at this point in his career.

It'll keep more less injury prone as well.

[m0nkey]

The man may be fat but his games played per year since 2006:

 

157

158

159

162

161

162

162

162

 

Let me know when his physical stature actually affects his durability 

[Grigori]

What is the relevance to Pujols when evaluating whether Fielder is declining or not? It's like saying global warming can't be happening because I just had a nice slice of cheesecake. But since you're intent on doing it, Pujols has had a WAR below 5 once, Fielder has been above 5 once. So yeah, that evidence you're using is laughably selective.

 

Pujols has declined at an alarming rate and the long-term outlook is pretty bleak. That has nothing to do with Prince Fielder's circumstances or future career path.

 

I wonder how many cheesecakes Fielder could eat. I bet it's a bunch. 

[Oz27]

Speaking of selective...why use 5 WAR as your cutoff? Is it because there were two seasons where Fielder was JUST under 5 (4.6 in 2011 & 4.9 in 2012...just two seasons ago)? Going from 4.9 to 1.7 WAR in one year, a year in which the player in question was going through off-field issues is evidence of a decline? Maybe he just had a bad year.

 

Divorce has an effect on most people that go through it. That effect is most likely magnified when you are a public figure with millions to lose. I've been through it, and while I'm certainly not a public figure and I really didn't have anything to lose (half of nothing is nothing), it was still hard.

 

Out of curiosity, how come Pujols can't use off-field issues as an excuse? The stuff he went through this year was pretty damn dramatic (not to mention the fact he was also crippled by a bad injury). Personally I don't think either one is an excuse, but you're just using double standards.

[Brent Maguire]

Fielder is definitely an anomaly with regards to his games played. Very few people play every single game and doing so with his weight is very impressive.

[Oz27]

I wonder how many cheesecakes Fielder could eat. I bet it's a bunch. 

I thought Monkey was answering that very question with his last post.

[Mark68]

Yeah I know that. Should've clarified I meant a more natural position for him now. That was also before he put on a ton of weight and it's pretty clear he's more suited for 1st base at this point in his career.

It'll keep more less injury prone as well.

Actually, when he came up, he was more of an outfielder. His primary position from 2003-2005 was corner outfielder.

[m0nkey]

I wonder how many cheesecakes Fielder could eat. I bet it's a bunch. 

Not 2, not 3, not 4...

[Mark68]

Out of curiosity, how come Pujols can't use off-field issues as an excuse? The stuff he went through this year was pretty damn dramatic (not to mention the fact he was also crippled by a bad injury). Personally I don't think either one is an excuse, but you're just using double standards.

Sure, injury is his excuse this year (and I mentioned that), but he wasn't injured while declining from 2010-2012. So there is no double standard being used or even implied.

 

When a player's stats and WAR decrease for four consecutive years, I'd say that's evidence of a decline. When it happens for one consecutive year, it's a down year, and that's all it is, unless and until it continues.

[HaloMagic]

One consecutive year.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Sure, injury is his excuse this year (and I mentioned that), but he wasn't injured while declining from 2010-2012. So there is no double standard being used or even implied.

 

When a player's stats and WAR decrease for four consecutive years, I'd say that's evidence of a decline. When it happens for one consecutive year, it's a down year, and that's all it is, unless and until it continues.

I obviously agree Pujols is declining, but aside from this year, wasnt he also hurt in 2011? I thought he broke his arm or something?

 

As far as this trade, I still wonder about Detroit. I get the salary dump. Big picture wise it gives them flexibility. But I think Kinsler is going to dip numbers wise there,and I think Cabrera will miss the protection (a la trout the second half this year). As far as Texas, yeah its a great add.

 

That said, losing the texas version of kinsler is obviously a factor. And I dont know if Cruz stays. Assuming he doesnt and they dont get a bat to replace him with a similar bat, then I dont think the difference on offense will be too much. And like someone brought up, Texas got good production from 1B this year already.

 

Either way, its a cool trade to speculate. Hopefully we have one on the way (a good one, not another crap one).

[EDinTUSTIN]

Rangers to Kinsler, "Get off our club!"

LOL

[stormngt]

I find it odd that you're an Angels fan on an Angels website and you fail to have an ounce of optimism toward the supposed team you root for or their players, but are not skeptical at all of opposing teams players or deals.

I find that odd with a lot of people!

[stormngt]

Now what gives you this optimism? What have Dipoto and Moreno done in the past 2 seasons to give you this kind of hope? What makes you think we'll be coming out of Spring Training as a different team compared to the last 2 Spring Trainings? 

 

This is when optimism takes a turn for the worse.

its a new season.  And IF you are a fan you should be optimistic.  If you hate the team before the season begins than your really not a fan.