Dipoto or Scioscia gone in offseason

[kevinb]

I pick team Mike. Jerry has tanked this organization with his crap fest of players he has hand picked.

[Ohtaniland]

So it would be an admission he made a mistake if he fired Dipoto but not if he fired Scioscia?

And why is it an owner or leader wouldn't do something for the betterment of their organization just so they can avoid admitting a mistake?

Maybe Arte believes that keeping Dipoto and firing Scioscia is for the betterment of the organization.

[Tyler]

Hogwash. They'll run with it as soon as someone throws it out there.... According to reports or "sources"

Well the statement the Angels released says something is going on. lol

[kevinb]

Well the statement the Angels released says something is going on. lol

Lifetime only will believe anything when its already signed and been 10 days since. No one in the media know anything except him and he is the only one who is right. All hail LT

[HBMike]

Bye Dipoto, I can't stand watching bad pitching, give me Scioscia ball anyday over this crap.

[kevinb]

Bye Dipoto, I can't stand watching bad pitching, give me Scioscia ball anyday over this crap.

I would rather watch speed defense and pitching over this crap fest thats been out here. While Dipoto has tried to produce power he has actually produced garbage. 

[SoWhat]

Angels put out a statement that pretty much said changes will come in the offseason 

[Mark68]

My guess is Dipoto will go as he should. I don't think Scioscia is going to be let go knowing his track record before 2010. Dipoto has no track record other than destroying this franchise.

So, the franchise was in tip-top shape before Dipoto's arrival?

[Jay]

So it would be an admission he made a mistake if he fired Dipoto but not if he fired Scioscia?

And why is it an owner or leader wouldn't do something for the betterment of their organization just so they can avoid admitting a mistake?

 

Arrogance.

[Pbonetheman]

I wish all boards had ignore features.  It makes things so much better.  

 

Ha ha, you have ignored so many posters you might be talking to yourself by now. Am I still here?

[austin724]

Who was the one who signed Blanton, Hanson, Burnett, Madson? Not Scioscia.

[Ordos]

Would it be a shock to see both gone?

[T.G.]

Dipoto, don't let the door hit you on the way out....

[Pbonetheman]

I am the type of person who watches a movie long after it turned bad. Sign me up for team Scioscia. 

[Pbonetheman]

Yep, I see you.  

 

I only put complete morons on it, and they have to prove they're morons multiple times.  

 

 

Phew!!

[HaloFan85]

I'd give 1 more year to JD before giving another to Scioscia.  And if Sosh is the one to go, hopefully Butcher is right behind him.

 

Dave Martinez, Joe Maddon's bench coach for the last 7 years, would be my first choice for new manager.

[Jay]

I think it plays better, Arte comes out looking smarter, if he lets Dipoto go.  Moreno gave Dipoto his first shot as a GM, Dipoto made some bad moves, it didn't work out.

 

On the other hand, if he lets Scioscia go, the media will ask, "why did you keep Dipoto after all the bad moves he made?  You expect Scioscia to win with that bullpen?" etc.

 

But hey, you never know.

[Inside Pitch]

Arte....   Let Bill Stoneman make the decision for you..

[The God of Runs]

Scioscia has had success at this level. Dipoto has not. If Scioscia gets fired, he stays unemployed for a week. If Dipoto gets fired, he may never get another gm job again. It's that simple

[Jimmag]

Give Jerry more time at least a year. Mike Scioscia I am not so sure about. Still a big chunk of contract left.

All I know is:

 

 

 

[Jay]

Arte has had every opportunity to say, "I told Jerry to go get Hamilton because I wanted him on our team."  Has he said that?

[Marsaka]

Well it's not really our fault Moreno gave Scioscia a stupid contract and he shouldn't think the franchise has to suffer for his mistake.  I hope he does the right thing and fires Scioscia because there is no way Scioscia is man enough to resign even though he knows he's not the right fit for this franchise anymore.

 

As much as I disliked Collins, at least he did the right thing in the end and didnt force this franchise to continue in a downward spiral because money is owed to him like Scioscia is doing right now.  That guy really makes me sick.

[tennischmp]

Good change is needed. Hopefully it's Scioscia

[mulwin444]

The only move I can really lay at the feet of Dipoto is the Blanton deal..you have dig deep in advanced pitching metric and cherry pick your favorites to make any sense out of that deal.

 

SIgning Pujols and Hamilton has Arte's fingerprints on it but, even if Dipoto led the charge, they basically signed two MOTO bats capable of .900+ OPS in a normal season.  You can argue length and money perhaps but it wasn't like they were closing their eyes and rolling the dice in terms of what should expect from these two.

 

Burnett was averaging 70 games for the past  4 seasons.

 

Hanson for Walden = Project for project trade 

 

Vargas for Morales = two impending free agents filling needs for both teams...Quick, anyone pick Vargas to go down with a blood clot in that trade thread?

 

I do question the desire to hang onto Trumbo if pitching is to be had but he shouldn't be just given away either.

 

For the most part, the process has been sound, the results have sucked.

 

As for Mike, I've seen his team continue to make baserunning mistakes, lack a situational approach to hitting, shoddy defense, questionable BP moves, and, now suddenly, we don't really run anymore.

 

Whose fault is it?

 

How do you change leading the league in rally-killing doubleplays?

 

How do you change having you pitchers lead the league in average allowed with 2 outs?

 

How do you change the piss-poor average with runners oin base/scoring position?

 

How do you cut down on errors and unearned?

 

Looks to me like a situation that should be blown to bits and re-started but if I'd have to choose I'd give Dipoto more time before Mike.

[Mark68]

Who was the one who signed Blanton, Hanson, Burnett, Madson? Not Scioscia.

So, he signed Hanson? A mere technicality, but Hanson came by way of trade. A trade of a pitcher whom nobody on here trusted with any high leverage situation while he was here (under a suspect pitching coach) for a project starting pitcher who has had success in the past, was still relatively young, and who might have just needed a change of scenery? Sure, Walden is now flourishing in Atlanta (under a REAL pitching coach), and Hanson foundered after his arrival (under a suspect pitching coach).

 

Blanton, if he had performed to his career norms (which were accomplished under other pitching coaches), would have been just fine as a #5 starter. He didn't (under a suspect pitching coach).

 

Burnett, who had averaged nearly 70 appearances in the previous five years, and who had undergone the same surgery that CJ Wilson had, all of a sudden became a China doll.

 

Madson, who was a low-risk signing that could have paid off big time (who takes two full years to recover from Tommy John surgery nowadays?) is responsible for the ruination of the franchise?

 

The hindsight you show here is incredible. But general managers do not have the gift of hindsight when they do what they feel they must do to assemble a team. If even two of these pitchers had worked out (Burnett, in his very little time, has been effective), we would be having a much different conversation now.

 

Generally, GMs cannot be forced to make quick fixes. When a new GM takes over, it's generally because there is a problem with a franchise that has necessitated a leadership change. Most general managers don't get to walk into a situation that is already set up for them, unless the previous GM has retired. It takes a number of years for any general manager's plans and decisions to take root and bear fruit. Reagins was given, what, four years? And we all recognize how bad Reagins was. Yet he was given four years, and you're ready to dump Dipoto in half the time.

 

Scioscia and gang, however, have been given 14 years. And the last four years (under two different GMs) have been underwhelming, Yes, the Angels won a World Championship under Scioscia's helm...IN HIS THIRD YEAR. That was eleven years ago. Ancient history now. Even during most of the "successful" years, this team underachieved by rolling over and playing dead anytime the Red Sox came calling during the postseason.

 

Scioscia, and especially most of his staff, have worn out their welcome in Anaheim. Dipoto needs more time to restock the farm and bring in a new manager, who will be on the same page (and not TURNING pages). Managers do not last fourteen years in one place any more. The age of Connie Mack and John McGraw and even Casey Stengel is long gone.