Perry is a very not good GM

[BTH]

I don’t agree with every single gripe, but a lot of them are on point.

A competent org would’ve fired Perry and let the new GM come in and pick his manager.

Instead, Perry will get fired after the season and Wash will be a lame duck stuck with a new GM next year.

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, BTH said:

I don’t agree with every single gripe, but a lot of them are on point.

A competent org would’ve fired Perry and let the new GM come in and pick his manager.

Instead, Perry will get fired after the season and Wash will be a lame duck stuck with a new GM next year.

Or Perry hired Washington and Perry will come back. 

[Inside Pitch]

56 minutes ago, BTH said:

I don’t agree with every single gripe, but a lot of them are on point.

A competent org would’ve fired Perry and let the new GM come in and pick his manager.

Instead, Perry will get fired after the season and Wash will be a lame duck stuck with a new GM next year.

Or you know, a competent organization would have allowed Minasian to hire his own manager and not waste two years catering to the whims of a megalomaniac trying to force his vision on an entire sport.

[Pancake Bear]

Kinda doubt Perry gets fired after this season unless the team really sucks. It's obviously a transition year, and doesn't really make sense to dump the GM at that point. If they were going to do that, it would've made more sense to do it after last season. 

[BTH]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Or you know, a competent organization would have allowed Minasian to hire his own manager and not waste two years catering to the whims of a megalomaniac trying to force his vision on an entire sport.

Yes, that would’ve been ideal 3 years ago.

[BTH]

2 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Kinda doubt Perry gets fired after this season unless the team really sucks. It's obviously a transition year, and doesn't really make sense to dump the GM at that point. If they were going to do that, it would've made more sense to do it after last season. 

It would’ve made more sense, but does this organization always do the most sensible thing?

His deal is up after the season, so they’ll have to make some sort of decision no matter what.

[Inside Pitch]

12 minutes ago, BTH said:

It would’ve made more sense, but does this organization always do the most sensible thing?

His deal is up after the season, so they’ll have to make some sort of decision no matter what.

Or they already made that decision and haven't announced it... like they didn't announce that Eppler had been extended.  Not sure what the point of announcing Torii Hunter had been brought back into the fold as a special assistant to the GM if there was any real uncertainty about Minasian coming back.

[T.G.]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

Not sure what the point of announcing Torii Hunter had been brought back into the fold as a special assistant to the GM if there was any real uncertainty about Minasian coming back.

It's the Angels... things don't have to make sense.

[BTH]

4 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Or they already made that decision and haven't announced it... like they didn't announce that Eppler had been extended.  Not sure what the point of announcing Torii Hunter had been brought back into the fold as a special assistant to the GM if there was any real uncertainty about Minasian coming back.

And what happened with Eppler?

He was fired at the end of the season, even with a contract option having been picked up

[Jason]

22 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Kinda doubt Perry gets fired after this season unless the team really sucks. It's obviously a transition year, and doesn't really make sense to dump the GM at that point. If they were going to do that, it would've made more sense to do it after last season. 

They are really going to suck 

[Inside Pitch]

6 minutes ago, BTH said:

And what happened with Eppler?

He was fired at the end of the season, even with a contract option having been picked up

Yes, after a season they thought they would contend and failed miserably.  There is no such delusion this season.

[Inside Pitch]

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

They are really going to suck 

I think they know that's likely the case.

[BTH]

9 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Yes, after a season they thought they would contend and failed miserably.  There is no such delusion this season.

Even with low expectations, there’s still a bar that needs to be met.

And if he fails to meet that, he’ll get canned.

[T.G.]

1 minute ago, BTH said:

Even with low expectations, there’s still a bar that needs to be met.

And if he fails to meet that, he’ll get canned.

That sounds like something blarg would say.

That's called blarging.

[Blarg]

51 minutes ago, T.G. said:

That sounds like something blarg would say.

That's called blarging.

And making stupid statements and trying to attribute them to someone else is what you like to do.

I feel like Minasian has taken this messed up organization and started to normalize the minor leagues, bringing in better personal, coaching and direction. That is where the Angels will be successful in the future, not if Tyler Anderson is worth his contract. Anderson along with Drury, Sano, Hicks and half the bullpen are only holes plugged waiting for talent to rise and push them off the roster. They are non stories. 

[T.G.]

3 minutes ago, Blarg said:

And making stupid statements and trying to attribute them to someone else is what you like to do.

Lighten up Frances.

[T.G.]

Sometimes I like to poke the bear to see if he's sleeping.

[samwum]

5 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

So, you want to tout FG's methodology so long as it supports whatever POV you are making.  Got it.   Don't look now but I responded to someone else talking about whether or not he can live up to his contract -- cost/value was the argument and I addressed that directly.

Also you mockingly made reference to "shiny ERA" in this thread when talking about Minasian's motivation to sign him but here you're attempting to use it to downplay the return on 13mm.  I think ERA is pretty useless myself as it tells us absolutely nothing other than the end result. It's a very low information statistic which is why Im assuming you wanted to put it on Minasian.

Look, I'm not a Tyler Anderson "fan", I wasn't in favor of signing him but do I believe he's capable of a 4.50 "shiny" ERA?  yes.  His value comes from his ability to eat innings, something Angels SPs have been extremely awful at.  My argument is that a 2 fWAR pitcher at 13 Mil per is an easy yes.

You're guilty of being completely sure of a situation without any actual insight what was available to him be it funds or via trade.  

This is the FA crop of pitchers signed to larger deals last season

TOTALS							67	$1,114,966,666	$16,641,294
AVERAGE							2.16	$35,966,667	$16,641,294
PLAYER (31)	POS.	AGE	BATS	THROWS	FROM	TO	YRS	DOLLARS	AVERAGE SALARY
Jacob deGrom QO	SP	34.4	L	R	NYM	TEX	5	$185,000,000	$37,000,000
Carlos Rodon QO	SP	30.0	L	L	SF	NYY	6	$162,000,000	$27,000,000
Justin Verlander	SP	39.8	R	R	HOU	NYM	2	$86,666,666	$43,333,333
Kodai Senga	SP	29.8	L	R	JPN	NYM	5	$75,000,000	$15,000,000
Taijuan Walker	SP	30.2	R	R	NYM	PHI	4	$72,000,000	$18,000,000
Jameson Taillon	SP	31.0	R	R	NYY	CHC	4	$68,000,000	$17,000,000
Chris Bassitt QO	SP	33.8	R	R	NYM	TOR	3	$63,000,000	$21,000,000
Zach Eflin	SP	28.6	R	R	PHI	TB	3	$40,000,000	$13,333,333
Tyler Anderson QO	SP	32.8	L	L	LAD	LAA	3	$39,000,000	$13,000,000

IYO, how many of them are "legit front line" SPs?  Other than Eflin who was a career 95 ERA+ (4.36 FIP), guy from 2016-2022 nobody was in the Angels price range.  Anderson BTW managed a 108 ERA+(4.18 FIP), from 2016-2022..  And before you try to argue the peripherals were a lot better...  

ZE: 1.295 WHIP, 9.5 H/9, 1.4 HR/9, 2.2 BB/9, 7.5 K/9 -- 659.1 IP
TA: 1.245 WHIP. 8.7 H/9. 1.3 HR/9. 2.5 BB/9, 7.6 K/9 -- 802.1 IP

Don't look now but Anderson actually edges him out in most of the peripherals.  If we change the data range to include Elfin and Anderson's 2023 where they were polar opposites, they are STILL damn near clones of each other numbers wise.

Find another hill to die on.

A lot to break down here. I feel like we're kind of going in circles so I'm going to try to concisely state my feelings and we can agree to disagree or whatever. My stance is that Anderson's FIP, xFIP, and SIERA indicated that his 2022 season was a total anomaly and he was still a pumpkin that Perry should have avoided, or at least not given term to. I also don't feel like he was a good fit for a rotation which was strong on the backend and weak up front. And lastly, I feel like in general spending 3yr/$39mm on an "innings eater" is poor use of budget. A triple whammy of sorts between bad pitcher, bad fit, and bad strategy. 

Regarding Eflin -- I don't mean to be rude, but I'm not sure if you fully understand the depth of peripheral statistics out there. 

From 2020 to 2022, Eflin's FIP, xFIP, and SIERA each ranged from 3.25 to 3.75. From 2020 to 2022, Anderson's FIP, xFIP, and SIERA each ranged from 4 to 6. These three stats are predictive of ERA in different ways and indicated Eflin's ERA should be between 3.25-3.75, and Anderson's ERA should be between 4-6. Obviously both of these conclusions proved to be true in 2023, and to me these stats show Eflin and Anderson are pitchers of signifcantly different calibers, yet received identical contracts. 

Clearly I have many issues with Perry beyond Anderson, and it's fine if you'd prefer to shrug the deal off or chalk it up as not a big deal. Personally, I feel like that situation is just very indicative that Perry doesn't "get it" with pitchers. 

 

 

[samwum]

6 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Eppler also brought in Julio Teheran, 31 IP 10.5 ERA for 9 million.  Matt Harvey, 59 IP 7.09 ERA 11 million.  Trevor Cahill 102 IP 5.98 ERA 9 million.

I feel both GMs moved the franchise forward from where JD left it, but let's not pretend one guy had an eye for FA pitching talent while the other doesn't.
 

I just felt like you were comparing Eppler's young guys to Minasian's young guys as a reason to give Minasian extra leash, and omitting Detmers, Canning, and Sandoval was pretty dishonest. The full outline of young guys is below and I'm not sure that I love it.

Ohtani, Detmers, Canning, Sandoval, Marsh (top 10 CF in the league last year), Rengifo, Adell, Walsh, Thaiss, Fletcher, and Soriano vs..... O'Hoppe, Neto, Schanuel, Moniak, Silseth, Rada, Dana, Bachman, and Joyce? 

Even Jose Suarez graduated with a 50 grade on Fangraphs, which is better than Silseth, Bachman, Joyce, or Dana are carrying. 

 

Also, it would definitely be fair to argue Eppler had a better eye for pitching than Minasian, even considering all the shitty FA contracts he handed out. 

Eppler plucked Hansel Robles and Blake Parker off waivers and they put up 2.50 ERAs. Yusmiero Petit, 2.89 ERA. David Hernandez, 2.23 ERA. Jose Quijada was claimed off waivers by Eppler and outperformed Minasian's $7mm man Aaron Loup. Eppler somehow got Mike Mayers to put up a 2.10 ERA in 2020 and Mike Mayers fucking sucked. Taylor Cole, 1.34 ERA in 33 innings in 2018. How about Hoby Milner, who Perry DFA'd, putting up a 1.82 ERA in 64 innings last year. I mean seriously-- how the fuck did Eppler find these guys? 

Eppler paid Parker Bridwell, Felix Pena, and JC Ramirez quite literally nothing and they all had one or more seasons with at least 1 WAR -- the same amount of WAR Minasian's $13mm man Tyler Anderson generated last year. 

Minasian's inability to find decent pitching at the margins actually really killed us the last few years. He spent $27mm AAV on Tyler Anderson, Aaron Loup, and Ryan Tepera and in 2023 they cumulatively generated 1.0 WAR. The domino effect of this wasteful spending is truly so painful. 

• Had he spent the appropriate $8mm-$8.5mm for a 1 WAR return (per Fangraphs), there is a $19mm surplus leftover. 
• Wouldn't it have been nice to put that surplus $19mm towards Trea Turner or Dansby Swanson to generate 5-6 WAR?

We are talking about a difference between 1 WAR and 6-7 WAR here if Minasian can pull rabbits out of his hat the way Eppler did. Eppler and Minasian both sucked at the big ticket pitcher signings, but Eppler's dumpster dives were nuts.

I didn't even mention the absolute heist in trading the expiring contract of Martin Maldonado (1 WAR in 4 seasons with the Astros) for Patrick Sandoval (7.9 WAR in 5 seasons + 2024 with the Halos). 6.9 surplus WAR created in this deal. Have all the Perry Minasian pitching additions in the past 3 years combined for 6.9 WAR? 

Crazy revisionist history going on here, IMO. 

 

 

[Blarg]

32 minutes ago, T.G. said:

Sometimes I like to poke the bear to see if he's sleeping.

He's recovering from surgery. 

[Stradling]

@Inside Pitch you don’t understand the depth of perifperal statistics.  

 

this should be good.  

[Jason]

38 minutes ago, T.G. said:

Sometimes I like to poke the bear to see if he's sleeping.

Apparently he was awake 

[T.G.]

19 minutes ago, Blarg said:

He's recovering from surgery. 

Wishing you a speedy recovery!

[m0nkey]

22 minutes ago, Blarg said:

He's recovering from surgery. 

Damn didn't you just have something done or am I misremembering?

[Blarg]

Just now, m0nkey said:

Damn didn't you just have something done or am I misremembering?

Knee in December.