Perry is a very not good GM

[samwum]

 

• 3 failed efforts to add frontline SP in Syndergaard, Anderson, Giolito
• Long list of awful relief pitching signings
• Bad extensions for Stassi and Fletcher, who weren't even free agents at the time
• Consistently acquiring players who predictably regressed after previously outperforming their peripheral and advanced stats or coming off career outlier seasons -- like Tyler Anderson, Ryan Tepera, Aaron Loup, Lucas Giolito
• Usage of most players in the league multiple times due to having to shuffle through wildly incompetent depth signings like Kurt Suzuki, Juan Lagares, Tyler Wade, etc.
• Failed to adequately apply platoons to mitigate production drop off when players sustained injuries
• Lost Ohtani
• Coaching staff was a shitshow during Ohtani competitive window
• Rushed Silseth, Bachman, O'Hoppe, and Neto's development and all suffered significant injuries
• Had public falling out with one of the most successful and well respected managers of the recent era
• Flip-flopping organizational values year-in and year-out
  • One year he hires driveline guys and emphasizes stuff+, the next he gets rid of them and emphasizes fastballs and throwing strikes
  • One year he gives Raisel Iglesias one of the richest RP contracts of all time, the next he trades him for nothing in a contract dump 
  • One year he hires Phil Nevin with no managerial experience to be Ray Montgomery's analytics puppet, the next he hires the oldest manager in the league

At this point Minasian's only redeeming quality has been moderate success in the draft -- by drafting the consensus most "pro-ready" collegiate players and rushing through the system. Is this really some sort of rocket science strategy that another GM couldn't replicate?

 

At this point I am at a total loss for why this guy is still here. Drafting Zach Neto and trading Marsh (a top 10 CF in the league) for Logan O'Hoppe do not compensate for the overwhelming incompetence this guy has demonstrated the past 3 years. I'll be surprised if he makes it through July.

 

 

 

[m0nkey]

@samwum any relation to Sam Blum?

[Chuck]

Hi @samwum, welcome to AngelsWin.com.

I've seen mixed reviews of Perry both here and social media. I'm waiting out how this season unfolds before I give him an ultimate grade. 

There's definitely arguments to be made from both sides.

Thank you for your take. 

[samwum]

6 minutes ago, Chuck said:

Hi @samwum, welcome to AngelsWin.com.

I've seen mixed reviews of Perry both here and social media. I'm waiting out how this season unfolds before I give him an ultimate grade. 

There's definitely arguments to be made from both sides.

Thank you for your take. 

Thanks -- fair enough.

[Torridd]

21 minutes ago, samwum said:

 

• 3 failed efforts to add frontline SP in Syndergaard, Anderson, Giolito
• Long list of awful relief pitching signings
• Bad extensions for Stassi and Fletcher, who weren't even free agents at the time
• Consistently acquiring players who predictably regressed after previously outperforming their peripheral and advanced stats or coming off career outlier seasons -- like Tyler Anderson, Ryan Tepera, Aaron Loup, Lucas Giolito
• Usage of most players in the league multiple times due to having to shuffle through wildly incompetent depth signings like Kurt Suzuki, Juan Lagares, Tyler Wade, etc.
• Failed to adequately apply platoons to mitigate production drop off when players sustained injuries
• Lost Ohtani
• Coaching staff was a shitshow during Ohtani competitive window
• Rushed Silseth, Bachman, O'Hoppe, and Neto's development and all suffered significant injuries
• Had public falling out with one of the most successful and well respected managers of the recent era
• Flip-flopping organizational values year-in and year-out
  • One year he hires driveline guys and emphasizes stuff+, the next he gets rid of them and emphasizes fastballs and throwing strikes
  • One year he gives Raisel Iglesias one of the richest RP contracts of all time, the next he trades him for nothing in a contract dump 
  • One year he hires Phil Nevin with no managerial experience to be Ray Montgomery's analytics puppet, the next he hires the oldest manager in the league

At this point Minasian's only redeeming quality has been moderate success in the draft -- by drafting the consensus most "pro-ready" collegiate players and rushing through the system. Is this really some sort of rocket science strategy that another GM couldn't replicate?

 

At this point I am at a total loss for why this guy is still here. Drafting Zach Neto and trading Marsh (a top 10 CF in the league) for Logan O'Hoppe do not compensate for the overwhelming incompetence this guy has demonstrated the past 3 years. I'll be surprised if he makes it through July.

 

 

 

You may be right, but I get the feeling many of these failings derived from Moreno's limitations.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Great read, very informative, keep up the good work...!

[Stradling]

Awesome.

[Slegnaac]

56 minutes ago, samwum said:

Rushed Silseth, Bachman, O'Hoppe, and Neto's development and all suffered significant injuries

You have some valid points.  You don't need to embellish by saying that Neto and O'Hoppe's injuries were due to being "rushed".  Neto decided to jump on a fence to catch a foul ball, which resulted in an awkward tumble.

[nothing, Nothing]

52 minutes ago, samwum said:

 

• 3 failed efforts to add frontline SP in Syndergaard, Anderson, Giolito
• Long list of awful relief pitching signings
• Bad extensions for Stassi and Fletcher, who weren't even free agents at the time
• Consistently acquiring players who predictably regressed after previously outperforming their peripheral and advanced stats or coming off career outlier seasons -- like Tyler Anderson, Ryan Tepera, Aaron Loup, Lucas Giolito
• Usage of most players in the league multiple times due to having to shuffle through wildly incompetent depth signings like Kurt Suzuki, Juan Lagares, Tyler Wade, etc.
• Failed to adequately apply platoons to mitigate production drop off when players sustained injuries
• Lost Ohtani
• Coaching staff was a shitshow during Ohtani competitive window
• Rushed Silseth, Bachman, O'Hoppe, and Neto's development and all suffered significant injuries
• Had public falling out with one of the most successful and well respected managers of the recent era
• Flip-flopping organizational values year-in and year-out
  • One year he hires driveline guys and emphasizes stuff+, the next he gets rid of them and emphasizes fastballs and throwing strikes
  • One year he gives Raisel Iglesias one of the richest RP contracts of all time, the next he trades him for nothing in a contract dump 
  • One year he hires Phil Nevin with no managerial experience to be Ray Montgomery's analytics puppet, the next he hires the oldest manager in the league

At this point Minasian's only redeeming quality has been moderate success in the draft -- by drafting the consensus most "pro-ready" collegiate players and rushing through the system. Is this really some sort of rocket science strategy that another GM couldn't replicate?

 

At this point I am at a total loss for why this guy is still here. Drafting Zach Neto and trading Marsh (a top 10 CF in the league) for Logan O'Hoppe do not compensate for the overwhelming incompetence this guy has demonstrated the past 3 years. I'll be surprised if he makes it through July.

 

 

 

angels young international group of players have been looking great since perry got here. for that reason alone i would keep him. 

[samwum]

16 minutes ago, Slegnaac said:

You have some valid points.  You don't need to embellish by saying that Neto and O'Hoppe's injuries were due to being "rushed".  Neto decided to jump on a fence to catch a foul ball, which resulted in an awkward tumble.

I understand where you're coming from. Calling players up before their bodies are ready for the rigors of the schedule and season is a legitimate concern.

22 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Saying Anderson was a failure at acquiring a frontline starter is a helluva thing to say considering the cost ($12m is not remotely close to frontline SP money, so if you thought that was the goal with signing Anderson, that's kind of on you) and considering how Anderson has pitched to start the season - so the timing is kind a bit hilarious, but go off.

Also, blaming him for losing Ohtani is definite trolling. Either that or you're a retard, but I try not to assume that immediately. It usually takes a few more idiotic posts before I go there. 

Maybe I just can't wrap my head around signing a pitcher to a 3yr/$36mm deal without expecting them to be a significant contributor. 

You can buy Arte's spinzone about letting Ohtani go because the money wasn't right, but I think its a load of BS. I still believe he left because the Halos were (are?) incompetent. The out-clause in his contract if LAD fires Friedman also tells me Ohtani was unhappy with how things went after the Halos fired the guy who signed him. 

14 minutes ago, nothing, Nothing said:

angels young international group of players have been looking great since perry got here. for that reason alone i would keep him. 

Not sure how familiar you are with the backstory there. The Halos got themselves in some trouble in the early 2010s which ruined their relationships in Latin America. Eppler started to repair things and it does seem Minasian has continued to rebuild the Halos' standing, which is great. Just would caution when comparing the pipeline to 5-10 years ago when the org basically wasn't welcome down there. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

31 minutes ago, samwum said:

Maybe I just can't wrap my head around signing a pitcher to a 3yr/$36mm deal without expecting them to be a significant contributor. 

Blake Snell is basically getting paid this year what Anderson is getting over 3 years.

[Lazorko Saves]

1 hour ago, samwum said:

• Lost Ohtani

I have obtained the actual surveillance video of the moment Perry lost Ohtani.  Here it is.

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Torridd said:

You may be right, but I get the feeling many of these failings derived from Moreno's limitations.

I was just about to post that no GM is going to have success here while Arte is at the helm. 

[redoctober2002]

31 minutes ago, samwum said:

Maybe I just can't wrap my head around signing a pitcher to a 3yr/$36mm deal without expecting them to be a significant contributor. 

It's 3/39 but still, this was a pretty good deal considering the pitching market that year. I think the intention was to provide some stability in the middle, or worst case, back end of a 6 man rotation while providing some veteran leadership in an otherwise young rotation. That next tier of guys above him were going for $20M+ AAV, and the top tier guys going for over $30M AAV so $13M is quite a bargain. I would say if Anderson has an ERA around 4-4.5 and pitches 150+ innings the next two seasons I would feel that contract was a good deal with all said and done.

[samwum]

14 minutes ago, redoctober2002 said:

It's 3/39 but still, this was a pretty good deal considering the pitching market that year. I think the intention was to provide some stability in the middle, or worst case, back end of a 6 man rotation while providing some veteran leadership in an otherwise young rotation. That next tier of guys above him were going for $20M+ AAV, and the top tier guys going for over $30M AAV so $13M is quite a bargain. I would say if Anderson has an ERA around 4-4.5 and pitches 150+ innings the next two seasons I would feel that contract was a good deal with all said and done.

I get where you're coming from. I just don't think we are going to see eye to eye on this. 3yr/$39mm for a 33y/o backend starter with a very poor track record and bad peripherals is just flat out ridiculous in my mind.

[Stradling]

Just now, samwum said:

I get where you're coming from. I just don't think we are going to see eye to eye on this. 3yr/$39mm for a 33y/o backend starter with a very poor track record and bad peripherals is just flat out ridiculous in my mind.

And if he has a year anywhere close to 2022 then he just earned all three years of that deal. 

[samwum]

21 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Blake Snell is basically getting paid this year what Anderson is getting over 3 years.

Zach Eflin got an identical deal to Anderson the same offseason. Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm overambitious, maybe I'm too confident in my ability to read fangraphs player pages.... I want the GM that gets Eflin, who was roughly 5x times better than Anderson last year if you believe in WAR.

[samwum]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

And if he has a year anywhere close to 2022 then he just earned all three years of that deal. 

He won't. I referenced Perry's failure to observe peripheral and analytical stats, and Tyler Anderson's poor peripheral stats in my original post and subsequent comment. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, samwum said:

He won't. I referenced Perry's failure to observe peripheral and analytical stats, and Tyler Anderson's poor peripheral stats in my original post and subsequent comment. 

Yes you said a lot of ridiculous things. Eflin has a 6 ERA this year. Anderson is at zero. 

[samwum]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Yes you said a lot of ridiculous things. Eflin has a 6 ERA this year. Anderson is at zero. 

I don't appreciate how you have come after me personally multiple times in this thread because I've posted statistically backed things which may be uncomfortable for you. I'm not sure how you got to be a Mod here -- but you should aspire to act a lot more like Chuck.

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, samwum said:

I don't appreciate how you have come after me personally multiple times in this thread because I've posted statistically backed things which may be uncomfortable for you. I'm not sure how you got to be a Mod here -- but you should aspire to act a lot more like Chuck.

Ok. I haven’t come at you personally multiple times in this thread. Not all of your opinions are stat based and the ones that aren’t are you making wild assumptions that I think are ridiculous, that makes you uncomfortable. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

9 minutes ago, samwum said:

Zach Eflin got an identical deal to Anderson the same offseason. Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm overambitious, maybe I'm too confident in my ability to read fangraphs player pages.... I want the GM that gets Eflin, who was roughly 5x times better than Anderson last year if you believe in WAR.

I mean that is a different bar. Perry has definitely not established himself as an elite GM, but that wasn't what we were discussing. Anderson got back end starter money and he has two years left, there is still plenty of time left to evaluate this deal.

[Dtwncbad]

2 hours ago, samwum said:

 

• 3 failed efforts to add frontline SP in Syndergaard, Anderson, Giolito
• Long list of awful relief pitching signings
• Bad extensions for Stassi and Fletcher, who weren't even free agents at the time
• Consistently acquiring players who predictably regressed after previously outperforming their peripheral and advanced stats or coming off career outlier seasons -- like Tyler Anderson, Ryan Tepera, Aaron Loup, Lucas Giolito
• Usage of most players in the league multiple times due to having to shuffle through wildly incompetent depth signings like Kurt Suzuki, Juan Lagares, Tyler Wade, etc.
• Failed to adequately apply platoons to mitigate production drop off when players sustained injuries
• Lost Ohtani
• Coaching staff was a shitshow during Ohtani competitive window
• Rushed Silseth, Bachman, O'Hoppe, and Neto's development and all suffered significant injuries
• Had public falling out with one of the most successful and well respected managers of the recent era
• Flip-flopping organizational values year-in and year-out
  • One year he hires driveline guys and emphasizes stuff+, the next he gets rid of them and emphasizes fastballs and throwing strikes
  • One year he gives Raisel Iglesias one of the richest RP contracts of all time, the next he trades him for nothing in a contract dump 
  • One year he hires Phil Nevin with no managerial experience to be Ray Montgomery's analytics puppet, the next he hires the oldest manager in the league

At this point Minasian's only redeeming quality has been moderate success in the draft -- by drafting the consensus most "pro-ready" collegiate players and rushing through the system. Is this really some sort of rocket science strategy that another GM couldn't replicate?

 

At this point I am at a total loss for why this guy is still here. Drafting Zach Neto and trading Marsh (a top 10 CF in the league) for Logan O'Hoppe do not compensate for the overwhelming incompetence this guy has demonstrated the past 3 years. I'll be surprised if he makes it through July.

 

 

 

I would congratulate you on being so comprehensive but you failed to cite/criticize his BMI.

[samwum]

8 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I mean that is a different bar. Perry has definitely not established himself as an elite GM, but that wasn't what we were discussing. Anderson got back end starter money and he has two years left, there is still plenty of time left to evaluate this deal.

I don't think its a different bar. For 3 years leading up to free agency Zach Eflin had signifcantly stronger underlyings and peripherals than Tyler Anderson. Perry flat out got duped by Anderson's shiny ERA, ignored the underlying stats, and made a very poor decision. Now the Rays have an ace, and the Angels have one of the most overpaid #5 SPs in the league. These things flat out cannot happen if we want to the Halos to compete for the World Series. We cannot be the suckers at the table.

[samwum]

4 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I would congratulate you on being so comprehensive but you failed to cite/criticize his BMI.

lol