Do the Angels owe us an explanation?

[BTH]

No.

They do need to show their commitment to winning in their actions though.

[AngelsLakersFan]

If anything the league needs to explain why they essentially let the Dodgers swap out their terrible Bauer deal for Shohei Ohtani.

[Tank]

after hearing on a loop from the rest of the baseball world how much this team has wasted trout's prime years and now ohtani's by not even playing .500 ball, i don't think i'm emotionally ready to hear the halos explain why they didn't resign him. 

[T.G.]

7 minutes ago, Tank said:

after hearing on a loop from the rest of the baseball world how much this team has wasted trout's prime years and now ohtani's by not even playing .500 ball, i don't think i'm emotionally ready to hear the halos explain why they didn't resign him. 

I am inclined to believe there wasn't any amount of money the Angels could have offered him to make him want to stay.  It's sad, but that's what I'm thinking.

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Taylor said:

The Angels don't owe us anything. Typical entitled boomer mindset.

IMO they owe us some seasons of good baseball and post season appearances. Maybe I’m alone in feeling that way though. 

[Angels 1961]

I should get half my money back on Ohtani shirts I bought.

[Angels 1961]

Just now, Angels 1961 said:

I should get half my money back on Ohtani shirts I bought.

Never mind I will just dye them blue

[Chuck]

1 hour ago, BTH said:

No.

They do need to show their commitment to winning in their actions though.

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

They don't owe the fans or players, anything. The players get a paycheck. If they dont like it in the organization they can play out their contract or ask for a trade. 

They don't owe the fans anything, either. 

And $700 million may be an absurd amount for one player to make; but if he's going to make it back and more for the organization, then its a good deal both ways. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Ohtani is less of a business risk than he is a baseball risk, so in that sense I can agree that he's an example of "spending a ton to make even more."

But in terms of baseball itself--which is all I care about as a fan--it is a terrible risk, which is why I appreciate the fact that the Angels presumably didn't really compete. Regardless of how the money is spread out and over how long a time, paying any player $70M a year is just insane. Paying a guy who has a legit chance of being a DH for the rest of his career that kind of money, is just bonkers.

Chances are he'll continue to be a superstar for some years to come, but that we've seen the best of him. There's a chance that he could have a year or two even better than 2021-23 if he, say, combines 2022 pitching with 2023 hitting. But there's also a possibility that 2023's hitting is the outlier and he'll never be the pitcher he was. I do think he'll age well and not drop off a cliff--he wants to be good too badly for that to happen. But I just don't think you can expect 9+ WAR seasons from him on a regular basis, and the Dodgers are essentially paying him to continue at 2021-23 level for at least half of that contract. The chances of that happening aren't high enough to make the contract worth the risk, imo.

Or as Jeff said in the podcast, a few months ago before the injury, we were talking about $500M as dubious. Then he got hurt and everyone assumed his price would plummet. But somehow his agents managed public opinion and his injury was seemingly forgotten, or at least minimized. And then somehow the price not only returned to half a billion, but soared past that.

The point being, if we were balking at $500M back in June, and then thinking much less in September, why is anyone bummed the Angels didn't pay him $700M or more? I get being bummed about losing Ohtani - I feel it too - but I don't get thinking that the Angels somehow fucked us over because they wouldn't pay him like he was going to continue at his 2021-23 pace for the next half decade or more.

Reference Ohtani the baseball player, it is pretty crazy. Like you said, he might end up a hitter only in the near future. And as good of a hitter as he is, he's never been a 10 WAR guy as "just a hitter." So there is a huge, huge risk there 

As for Ohtani the moneymaker, he's as sure a shot as anyone in baseball. In all seriousness. Aside from Griffey, I can't really thunk of anyone off the top of my head who's ever been as popular as Ohtani. Baseball just doesn't have that appeal like basketball does.

But Ohtani is massively popular, internationaly. If anyone is going to create money it's him. Not Pujols even at his peak. Trout. Mcab, or any of the other superstar ballplayers. 

Ohtani just became essentially the new Kobe. If the Dodgers win he can replace Magic. Meaning as the King of LA.

So even of Ohtani never returns as a dominant pitcher, but is on a Dodger team that wins 100 games every year and maybe wins a few rings, it's still a huge win for the Dodgers 

 

Man this sucks.

[ten ocho recon scout]

29 minutes ago, T.G. said:

I am inclined to believe there wasn't any amount of money the Angels could have offered him to make him want to stay.  It's sad, but that's what I'm thinking.

Definitely seems that way. But who knows 

It sucks, but he had 6 years here to get a feel and an opinion of the org... can't really blame him for not seeing a light at the end of the tunnel.

[angelsnationtalk]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

What if Arte said, “we offered over $500 million and we thought he wanted to stay here after asking not to be traded at the deadline”?  What would that do for free agents?  What would that say to fans?  What is the positive outcome?  People who hate Arte will hate Arte.  Would fans really change their opinion of the situation? Will free agents really want to hear him blame a player? 

Genuine question - Did Ohtani actually ask not to be traded? If so.... both times?

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Genuine question - Did Ohtani actually ask not to be traded? If so.... both times?

It’s been reported he asked not to be traded this year. I have no idea if it’s true. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

2 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

The Dodgers have been cited as the textbook way to run an organization how many times?  But now they are “insane”?

I’m in my late fifties. Forgive me if I roll my eyes a bit when fans have labeled every single contract escalation over the last 40 years as “insane.”

For the record, I don't recall commenting on any previous contracts, other than to say that they were overpayment or a bad investment. If $700 million isn't crazy to you, you live in a far different world than I do.

[angelsnationtalk]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

It’s been reported he asked not to be traded this year. I have no idea if it’s true. 

If it actually is true then i'd be a little more upset with him. I get leaving for wanting to win. He 100% deserves to do it, but blocking something only to leave screws an organization over. 

[angelsnationtalk]

Let's just have Sam Blum get that exclusive Arte Moreno interview. That'd be gold. 

[BTH]

Just now, angelsnationtalk said:

Let's just have Sam Blum get that exclusive Arte Moreno interview. That'd be gold. 

I’d pay good money to watch an Arte Moreno and Sam Blum interview.

[BTH]

10 minutes ago, Stradling said:

It’s been reported he asked not to be traded this year. I have no idea if it’s true. 

Who reported that?

[angelsfan100]

I'm curious - but what happens with the giant poster of Ohtani they took down outside the stadium

[T.G.]

1 minute ago, angelsfan100 said:

I'm curious - but what happens with the giant poster of Ohtani they took down outside the stadium

Arte owns really large parrots....

[Jay]

56 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

I should get half my money back on Ohtani shirts I bought.

Angels will defer your refund until 2052.

[UndertheHalo]

Ohtani isn’t any player.  The team should issue some kind of statement.  At least acknowledging the situation and explaining what’s going on and what the plan going forward is.  It doesn’t have to be a forensic break down of what happened in negotiations.  We tried it didn’t work out etc.  Ok good.  But they should say something.   
 

this is what a club that gives a shit at all about its fans and their relationship to the club.  Substantially unclear that that is the Angels though.  

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Even McDonald’s puts out a statement when they discontinue the McRib (and then bring it back to much fanfare.)

I liked the “boomer mentality” because it would be nice to have some transparency from my team.  

[UndertheHalo]

12 minutes ago, The Ghost of Bob Starr said:

Even McDonald’s puts out a statement when they discontinue the McRib (and then bring it back to much fanfare.)

I liked the “boomer mentality” because it would be nice to have some transparency from my team.  

I don't understand the boomer comment at all. 

[Angels 1961]

53 minutes ago, Jay said:

Angels will defer your refund until 2052.

Can I put that in my will?