Angels acquire Gio Urshela from the Twins for Alejandro Hidalgo (DFA Diaz)

[Mark68]

I do like Benintendi in a leadoff role. He'll at least be (relatively) affordable. He's not in the Judge/Nimmo tier. 

[Angel Oracle]

18 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

I do like Benintendi in a leadoff role. He'll at least be (relatively) affordable. He's not in the Judge/Nimmo tier. 

Benetendi, Trout, Ohtani, Ward, Rendon, Walsh/Urshela, Rengifo, C, SS

Not a bad lineup 

Since we’re in a dreaming mood, can we dream up Squid having at least a .650 OPS?    Then he would make Fletcher the utility MIF.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[Docwaukee]

the rest of my ideal off season within reason (I think) 

would be Benintendi, Andrus, two cheap pen arms and trade for a closer.  I think andrus will smartly wait till all the big names sign and see who left in the cold

[AngelStew43]

I hope Perry is smart enough to stay away from guys like Andrus.  A 34 yo SS who has never been a star.  

He can only regress.  Ohtani is considering other clubs because, among other things, this team needs more star power to assist him, and Trout.  

We were 27th out of 30 teams in total offense.  We need to spend on a Turner, Correa, etc. and hope for a return to health for Rendon and Trout if we have any chance of retaining Ohtani.  If we take the cheap road, there won't be playoff baseball, and Ohtani is gone. 

[Warfarin]

10 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

I hope Perry is smart enough to stay away from guys like Andrus.  A 34 yo SS who has never been a star.  

He can only regress.  Ohtani is considering other clubs because, among other things, this team needs more star power to assist him, and Trout.  

We were 27th out of 30 teams in total offense.  We need to spend on a Turner, Correa, etc. and hope for a return to health for Rendon and Trout if we have any chance of retaining Ohtani.  If we take the cheap road, there won't be playoff baseball, and Ohtani is gone. 

I have seen this same thought echoed so many times.  This team, over the last decade, has given out mega contracts to Pujols, Hamilton, acquired Upton on a mega deal, Rendon .. see a trend?  They quickly become albatross contracts that just totally stifle our ability to acquire players.  Correa, Turner, etc will all become like that, too.  How many times do we need to see the same thing happen before we realize it is just absolutely a terrible idea?

Balance is key.  Big market teams have a few players like that, and we already have them - Trout, Rendon, and *HOPEFULLY* Ohtani soon.  2 guys currently, and hopefully 3 by next offseason, that will be on mega deals.  And truth be told, Trout and Ohtani will be albatross contracts at some point too, just hopefully towards the latter end.  But that part is more acceptable, because they performed so well for us at cheap levels that that is a way of it somewhat evening out.

We need to be smart with our financial resources.  This team cannot just keep going out and spending all of its money on one player who will subsequently break down in a year or two.

[Angels 1961]

6 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

I have seen this same thought echoed so many times.  This team, over the last decade, has given out mega contracts to Pujols, Hamilton, acquired Upton on a mega deal, Rendon .. see a trend?  They quickly become albatross contracts that just totally stifle our ability to acquire players.  Correa, Turner, etc will all become like that, too.  How many times do we need to see the same thing happen before we realize it is just absolutely a terrible idea?

Balance is key.  Big market teams have a few players like that, and we already have them - Trout, Rendon, and *HOPEFULLY* Ohtani soon.  2 guys currently, and hopefully 3 by next offseason, that will be on mega deals.  And truth be told, Trout and Ohtani will be albatross contracts at some point too, just hopefully towards the latter end.  But that part is more acceptable, because they performed so well for us at cheap levels that that is a way of it somewhat evening out.

We need to be smart with our financial resources.  This team cannot just keep going out and spending all of its money on one player who will subsequently break down in a year or two.

I agree so options for LF besides Benintendi could it be Profar, Bellinger or Haniger. Maybe put Walsh in LF sign a 1B like a Josh Bell. Halos have options and I'm sure Minasian has looked at trade market for these positions. Sign a mega deal for SS would not be good if you also plan on trying to keep Ohtani. Maybe not far off is Neto.

[Warfarin]

4 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

I agree so options for LF besides Benintendi could it be Profar, Bellinger or Haniger. Maybe put Walsh in LF sign a 1B like a Josh Bell. Halos have options and I'm sure Minasian has looked at trade market for these positions. Sign a mega deal for SS would not be good if you also plan on trying to keep Ohtani. Maybe not far off is Neto.

Right.  I am alright if they want to give out a decent contract to a LF.  I liked the deal for Anderson as well - 3 years, 40 mil is a decent contract, but it will not make or break this team.

A 30-35mil AAV, 7-9 year contract will just totally crush this team, much in the same way Rendon's contract has helped crush our current team's financial flexibility.  Not only are we spending 35mil AAV on him for 7 years, but we just had to add another 9mil player who likely was added to provide insurance in case Rendon's health problems persist.

It is just terrible business to sign players to mega contracts that are not your own.  I'm cool with re-signing our own current players, because there is a loyalty / reward system such that they provided so much value to your team in their early years that you are essentially rewarding them for it, and they are in turn the faces of your franchise (Trout, Ohtani) .. but the idea of going and signing these external free agents to giant deals, only to see them breakdown in a year or two, is just really infuriating.  This team would be way, way better off trying to use that money much more resourcefully.

If you sign a guy to a one year deal, and they stink, then you can just start again next offseason.  If you sign someone to a 7 year 35 mil AAV deal, and they get hurt and can't truly recover, then you are stuck for many, many years.

[AngelsLakersFan]

12 hours ago, Mark68 said:

Velazquez had positive WAR?

I don't see Urshella directly taking at bats away from Velazquez.

[Jeff Fletcher]

21 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

Also, can we expect to hear anything about the sale soon?  like at least an update or could we be waiting for awhile on that?

I’d love to have something to report but the circle of people who are in the loop on that is pretty small. I’ve been asking but no one is talking. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

21 hours ago, Trendon said:

Based on their actions so far, are you led to believe that one of the things you’ve heard about how much they have to spend is probably more accurate than the other thing you’ve heard?

For example, if you heard $200M from one source and $170M from another source, you’d be inclined to believe the former source because they’re already past $170M.

Nothing was that specific.

[Blarg]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I’d love to have something to report but the circle of people who are in the loop on that is pretty small. I’ve been asking but no one is talking. 

@Tank can be pretty tight lipped at times. 

[Tank]

2 minutes ago, Blarg said:

@Tank can be pretty tight lipped at times. 

There’s little value in making every single thing public. 
 

People will know when we’re good and ready to tell them.

[Don]

Honestly, I think moves like this one (along with getting someone like Benintendi, or maybe Jose Abreu) are bigger than people realize. The bottom of our lineup last season was TERRIBLE. Just getting some average to above average guys in the bottom half of the lineup makes this offense dramatically better. 

[BigVladdy]

I know, small sample size and all but, are we all certain that Soto isn't going to be on the ML roster on opening day?

Trade Rengifo while his value is (likely) peaking?

[AngelStew43]

On 11/19/2022 at 4:14 PM, Warfarin said:

The issue is, if we sign someone like Correa/Turner, and shell out the 30-35mil AAV mega deal to sign them, and then have to give Ohtani 35-40mil AAV, we will have 4 players who combine to earn around 140-150mil annually.  Not even the Mets or Dodgers have a situation like that, at least not to players on long-term deals.

We can find good players who aren't stars and instead build around that.  We will need to save the money to sign Ohtani.

Freeman, Betts, Kershaw, and Price were all making that for LA in 2022.  They had to take the Price deal to get Betts.  

We just need to place the 4 big deals that we have correctly.  That is where the Angels come up short.  We take on the Wells deal, we sign Hamilton, we bid against ourselves on the Pujols deal.  The Angels can add another large contract, they just have to make the correct choice.  

[AngelStew43]

On 11/20/2022 at 10:52 AM, Warfarin said:

Right.  I am alright if they want to give out a decent contract to a LF.  I liked the deal for Anderson as well - 3 years, 40 mil is a decent contract, but it will not make or break this team.

A 30-35mil AAV, 7-9 year contract will just totally crush this team, much in the same way Rendon's contract has helped crush our current team's financial flexibility.  Not only are we spending 35mil AAV on him for 7 years, but we just had to add another 9mil player who likely was added to provide insurance in case Rendon's health problems persist.

It is just terrible business to sign players to mega contracts that are not your own.  I'm cool with re-signing our own current players, because there is a loyalty / reward system such that they provided so much value to your team in their early years that you are essentially rewarding them for it, and they are in turn the faces of your franchise (Trout, Ohtani) .. but the idea of going and signing these external free agents to giant deals, only to see them breakdown in a year or two, is just really infuriating.  This team would be way, way better off trying to use that money much more resourcefully.

If you sign a guy to a one year deal, and they stink, then you can just start again next offseason.  If you sign someone to a 7 year 35 mil AAV deal, and they get hurt and can't truly recover, then you are stuck for many, many years.

OK.  But the guys who are generally available on 1-year deals are not going to be the ones to lead you into the playoffs and World Series. 

[totdprods]

50 minutes ago, BigVladdy said:

I know, small sample size and all but, are we all certain that Soto isn't going to be on the ML roster on opening day?

Trade Rengifo while his value is (likely) peaking?

Soto and Velazquez will eventually fill the same role I think. Late-inning defensive replacement (especially if Urshela sees a lot of SS time), pinch-running, etc.

I think Velazquez is out of options, so it’ll depend on whether or not the Angels decide to leave him as the 26th man because he can’t go to AAA, with Soto as first guy up, or if Velazquez gets bumped and Soto gets the 26th man gig out of the gate.

Personally, as currently constructed, I send Soto to AAA for more playing time and to maintain depth by keeping both in the org, at least to open the year. And provided we make no other moves for MIF.

[BTH]

7 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I think Velazquez is out of options, so it’ll depend on whether or not the Angels decide to leave him as the 26th man because he can’t go to AAA, with Soto as first guy up, or if Velazquez gets bumped and Soto gets the 26th man gig out of the gate.

Velazquez has options

[Stax]

Who heard of David Eckstein before the Angels gave him a chance at starting shortstop.  Give Livan Soto a chance at shortstop. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, AngelStew43 said:

Freeman, Betts, Kershaw, and Price were all making that for LA in 2022.  They had to take the Price deal to get Betts.  

We just need to place the 4 big deals that we have correctly.  That is where the Angels come up short.  We take on the Wells deal, we sign Hamilton, we bid against ourselves on the Pujols deal.  The Angels can add another large contract, they just have to make the correct choice.  

It's obviously a real concern. We can't tie up too much money in a handful of guys. But I think it's because we've always done so poorly the past decade in where we spend our money.

I made a thread a few months back about how we've wasted a billion dollars the past decade on crap. You're pointing a lot of it out here.

Spending 140 or so on 4 guys would be dangerous as hell. That said, we've spent so much on literally nothing that it's almost "why not" (if you actually get quality).

Like @AngelsLakersFan mentioned somewhere else in here, I think they should shape the roster assuming Ohtani is leaving.

I meant to make a post yesterday (not sure if I did or not), but aside from worrying about the "ohtani window", I think they need to remember the Trout one, too.

[TempeAngel]

On 11/18/2022 at 1:22 PM, Angelsjunky said:

Replace 550 PA from Wade/Velazquez/Mayfield with Urshela

I concur.

[T.G.]

1 hour ago, Stax said:

Who heard of David Eckstein before the Angels gave him a chance at starting shortstop.  Give Livan Soto a chance at shortstop. 

David Eckstein doesn't have anything to do with Soto.

[Warfarin]

3 hours ago, AngelStew43 said:

Freeman, Betts, Kershaw, and Price were all making that for LA in 2022.  They had to take the Price deal to get Betts.  

We just need to place the 4 big deals that we have correctly.  That is where the Angels come up short.  We take on the Wells deal, we sign Hamilton, we bid against ourselves on the Pujols deal.  The Angels can add another large contract, they just have to make the correct choice.  

My point was 4 long-term mega contracts.  The Dodgers did not have that.  They only had 2.

Kershaw was on a one year deal.  A one year deal is far less destructive, in terms of future flexibility, than 6-9 year deals.  Price was being paid ~15mil by the Dodgers, with the rest coming via the Red Sox.

Moreover, the Dodgers are incredibly crafty and know how to design contracts to bring down AAVs.  For context, the other 2 you mentioned have the following AAVs:

Betts:  25.54

Freeman:  24.7.

To compare, both Rendon and Trout have an AAV of around 35mil.

[Warfarin]

3 hours ago, AngelStew43 said:

OK.  But the guys who are generally available on 1-year deals are not going to be the ones to lead you into the playoffs and World Series. 

Well, yes and no.  A lot of those players are useful in helping get there, but teams do need elite players.  That's the thing though - we have elite players.  Trout, Ohtani, and health permitting, Rendon.  Ward generated close to a 4 fWAR too.

What this teams needs, and has been highlighted in many threads, is solid role players to help replace all the terrible sub-replacement level type production we have seen.  Too often, when one of our star players has gone down, they have been replaced by truly awful players that really should be viewed moreso as emergency options, not guys who rack up several hundred plate appearances.

This team does not need another giant contract added, it needs that same level of money smartly distributed to acquire multiple solid players.

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

It's obviously a real concern. We can't tie up too much money in a handful of guys. But I think it's because we've always done so poorly the past decade in where we spend our money.

I made a thread a few months back about how we've wasted a billion dollars the past decade on crap. You're pointing a lot of it out here.

Spending 140 or so on 4 guys would be dangerous as hell. That said, we've spent so much on literally nothing that it's almost "why not" (if you actually get quality).

Like @AngelsLakersFan mentioned somewhere else in here, I think they should shape the roster assuming Ohtani is leaving.

I meant to make a post yesterday (not sure if I did or not), but aside from worrying about the "ohtani window", I think they need to remember the Trout one, too.

The reason of "why not" is if we sign someone like Correa or Turner, who subsequently gets hurt and turns into another Pujols/Rendon/Upton, then this team is sunk for another 5-7 years.  This team cannot afford another misfire like that.