OK Perry, time to sell

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

13 minutes ago, ettin said:

Or, we will just be sitting here talking about the same shit in 8-10 more years....

 

It's all relative!

[Angels Fan Forever]

2 hours ago, Tank said:

sure, and as i said i don't dive into stats as deeply as others here. i wasn't terribly impressed by what i saw on his baseball reference page. i wouldn't trade adell for him, especially if he only has one year of control left.

You pivoted nicely there.

The one year of control had nothing to do with your original statement. It addressed mediocrity only. I fed the one year of control to you in my reply to your original post. And you pivoted. Nicely done. It's all in the stream above. 

Berrios is not mediocre.

Still, nice Laker head fake and recovery. 

[beatlesrule]

I've always wanted to trade Adell. I even knew Walsh would be ready before Adell and I think Adell is overhyped. The Yelich thing is one example. I'm in the help out the major League club right now with proven players rather than hope a guy is good 3 years from now camp. Capitalize on Trout, Ohtani, Rendon, Fletcher, Walsh etc now but that's obviously not this Orgs philosophy.

I'm simply typing that years ago, a lot here thought Adell would be ready and mashing by now.  He was deemed untradeable even though he could have gotten PROVEN help.  I saw that and seeing as the Angels were deep in Outfield depth, he was a great tradeable asset. Oh well. 

Now he's only maybe worth a 27 year old pitcher that isn't even a top 20 in baseball? He went from untradeable to that? Sad.

[tdawg87]

6 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

I've always wanted to trade Adell. I even knew Walsh would be ready before Adell and I think Adell is overhyped. The Yelich thing is one example. I'm in the help out the major League club right now with proven players rather than hope a guy is good 3 years from now camp. Capitalize on Trout, Ohtani, Rendon, Fletcher, Walsh etc now but that's obviously not this Orgs philosophy.

I'm simply typing that years ago, a lot here thought Adell would be ready and mashing by now.  He was deemed untradeable even though he could have gotten PROVEN help.  I saw that and seeing as the Angels were deep in Outfield depth, he was a great tradeable asset. Oh well. 

Now he's only maybe worth a 27 year old pitcher that isn't even a top 20 in baseball? He went from untradeable to that? Sad.

Everything you just said is complete bullshit. Congratulations.

[Angels Fan Forever]

I just think Minasian has an opportunity here. He can make the bold, and yes costly, move to bring in some young controllable pitching now. He can engage in talks with the Marlins and go get a #2. It's the move Eppler wouldn't or couldn't make. If it was couldn't for Eppler then it's probably can't for Minasian and then we know Arte is playing the role of Jerry Jones.

[Rollinghard]

Did they buy Adell a 1st baseman's glove yet?  If the Angels org. cant teach him how to shag flyballs, other orgs. got to be thinking maybe they cant either. Adell's trade value has plummeted, and rightly so. I would trade him asap. Before he becomes Brandon Wood.   

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, Rollinghard said:

Did they buy Adell a 1st baseman's glove yet?  If the Angels org. cant teach him how to shag flyballs, other orgs. got to be thinking maybe they cant either. Adell's trade value has plummeted, and rightly so. I would trade him asap. Before he becomes Brandon Wood.   

You guys desperately need some new material.

[Tank]

1 hour ago, Angels Fan Forever said:

You pivoted nicely there.

The one year of control had nothing to do with your original statement. It addressed mediocrity only. I fed the one year of control to you in my reply to your original post. And you pivoted. Nicely done. It's all in the stream above. 

Berrios is not mediocre.

Still, nice Laker head fake and recovery. 

Thanks!

[GoodTimesGoneBad]

Keep Adell and hope he can at least replace Upton’s production. It won’t be much but at least it will allow the Angels to spend elsewhere(pitching). 

[GoodTimesGoneBad]

20 hours ago, Angels_Make_Me_Drink said:

No. Berrios is adament about testing the free agent market. I thought it would be a great move to package Marsh OR Adell for Berrios until someone, forgot which poster, posted that he is really keen on testing free agency and being able to hold the power in where he plays. No thank you to that. He doesn't even sound willing to discuss an extension. 

So then it would be Marsh for Jose Berrios and a pick after the 1st round in 2023. The Angels would be crazy not to make that deal. 

[jsnpritchett]

21 hours ago, Angels_Make_Me_Drink said:

No. Berrios is adament about testing the free agent market. I thought it would be a great move to package Marsh OR Adell for Berrios until someone, forgot which poster, posted that he is really keen on testing free agency and being able to hold the power in where he plays. No thank you to that. He doesn't even sound willing to discuss an extension. 

Probably me, as I've posted a couple different articles and excerpts that make it pretty clear that he's either going to test the free agent market or sign an extension that is the equivalent of a free agent contract. 

[stormngt]

6 hours ago, Stradling said:

He’s right except Barria’s ERA+ Is not better than Cannings.  

I added Canning to that?  My bad.  I thought I said Heaney.  I thought better than Canning but was slightly higher.

Canning, however never had the highs of Barrias did in 2018 and 2020.

Canning highest era+ was 117.

Barria high was 130 in 2020 and 123 in 2918

Edited July 21, 2021 by stormngt

[Revad]

6 hours ago, totdprods said:

So...what's wrong with that? haha. We need pitching and he's a good pitcher. Good Ervin Santana? Jose Quintana? Berrios' career to date? All would be welcome in the 2022 Angels' rotation. Should we be aiming higher and spending more in trade capital? Should we spend money in FA for a mid-tier comparable arm even though those bust fairly often? Should we keep hoping someone like Canning ascends to that in maybe his fourth season?

All of the above?

the thing with Adell- this team can afford to develop him in the majors as has been suggested.  If Marsh does well we could be in great shape position player wise.

[Angelsjunky]

5 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

First...  I wouldn't call the guy mediocre either...

Now.... on to the bullshit:  Fun with numbers/facts and why people hate stats

Among pitchers who have pitched at least 700 innings*** 2017-2021, Berrios ranks second to last in fWAR.  He has the third highest ERA, the second highest FIP.  His K/9 Rate is the third worst.   

*** Only 11 pitchers total. 

His ability to pile up innings positively impacts his fWAR total which is also how Jose Quintana ends up being the 31st best pitcher in MLB from 2017-2020 (only 2.0 fWAR behind Berrios), over that span. The fact is that Berrios' greatest asset/value comes from his consistency and ability to pile up quality innings  -- But if you comp him to other pitchers with similar workloads he's bottom tier.

Am I arguing he sucks?  NOPE..   Mostly I'm just having fun with how stats can be contorted to fit a narrative.

Berrios has been a good compiler..  and again, that doesn't make him shitty, it makes him a good number three like AJ says.

Yes, this is all true - but look at who those 11 pitchers are: deGrom, Scherzer, Cole, Nola, Greinke, Bauer, Corbin, Marquez, Lynn, Berrios, and Hendricks (in order of fWAR). Meaning, some of the very best pitchers in the game and almost all of them considered #1s or, at worst, #2s. So the fact that Berrios is in that group--as far as innings pitched--speaks something of his value.

 

[Jeff Fletcher]

I’m gonna throw this grenade into the discussion and then run away…

Julio Teheran

[Revad]

10 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I’m gonna throw this grenade into the discussion and then run away…

Julio Teheran

Usually when I say fucking Fletcher it means something else- Jeff that was not cool.

[Dtwncbad]

13 hours ago, Rollinghard said:

Did they buy Adell a 1st baseman's glove yet?  If the Angels org. cant teach him how to shag flyballs, other orgs. got to be thinking maybe they cant either. Adell's trade value has plummeted, and rightly so. I would trade him asap. Before he becomes Brandon Wood.   

The never ending jabs at Brandon Wood are  just lowbrow garbage.  People just pull that name out of their ass every time any discussion about a prospect comes up.

It is really lame.

The guy had a very serious psychological anxiety problem that destroyed his career.

How in the fuck that has anything to do with Jo Adell is a beyond me.

 

[Angels 1961]

3 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

The never ending jabs at Brandon Wood are  just lowbrow garbage.  People just pull that name out of their ass every time any discussion about a prospect comes up.

It is really lame.

The guy had a very serious psychological anxiety problem that destroyed his career.

How in the fuck that has anything to do with Jo Adell is a beyond me.

 

I agree I think Adell will be in OF soon Upton is blocking him now. 

[Angelsjunky]

3 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

The never ending jabs at Brandon Wood are  just lowbrow garbage.  People just pull that name out of their ass every time any discussion about a prospect comes up.

It is really lame.

The guy had a very serious psychological anxiety problem that destroyed his career.

How in the fuck that has anything to do with Jo Adell is a beyond me.

 

Wood is the opposite side of the spectrum from Trout. Some folks are disappointed when people aren't Troutesque, and the same folks tend to think anyone who struggles is Brandon Wood. 99.99% of prospects are somewhere in between.

[Blarg]

10 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

I agree I think Adell will be in OF soon Upton is blocking him now. 

Trout and Upton have been on the IL enough they didn't block Adell being called up. Adell is blocking himself by not moving forward on both defense and offense that will play well at the major league level. Unless there is a change in his skill sets he won't be blocked by Upton next season either. 

 

[Dtwncbad]

Just now, Angelsjunky said:

Wood is the opposite side of the spectrum from Trout. Some folks are disappointed when people aren't Troutesque, and the same folks tend to think anyone who struggles is Brandon Wood. 99.99% of prospects are somewhere in between.

To me there are guys that just don’t pan out  in general, basically they have nothing left to prove in the minors but just don’t do well in the majors.  Often called AAAA players.  That’s a bust.

The limitation is their baseball talent ends up just not as good as people projected that baseball talent to be.

Then you have some different unique situations where a guy doesn’t make it from things that have nothing to do with their baseball talent.

Wood had a psychological anxiety problem.  It wasn’t that he was overrated or whatever.

Dallas McPherson’s back basically crumbled.  Had nothing to do with baseball talent.

I just think it’s cheap and inaccurate to keep hearing these names as example of the stupid Angels overhyping players that ended up busts.

 

[Angels 1961]

19 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Trout and Upton have been on the IL enough they didn't block Adell being called up. Adell is blocking himself by not moving forward on both defense and offense that will play well at the major league level. Unless there is a change in his skill sets he won't be blocked by Upton next season either. 

 

I disagree I feel they wanted him to have full season in minors. Trout,  Marsh and Adell in 2022.

[Dtwncbad]

15 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

I disagree I feel they wanted him to have full season in minors. Trout,  Marsh and Adell in 2022.

If they felt he personally needed a full season in the minors, then Jo Adell was blocking Jo Adell. 

[DMVol]

36 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

I disagree I feel they wanted him to have full season in minors. Trout,  Marsh and Adell in 2022.

So what do you do with Upton under that scenario?  He's not going to DH with Ohtani  around.....

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, Angels 1961 said:

I disagree I feel they wanted him to have full season in minors. Trout,  Marsh and Adell in 2022.

You can't have it both ways. Claim Upton is blocking him from playing this year and then say he is supposed to be where he is. 

Again, Adell is the only reason he is not playing on the Major league roster. It will be the same reason next season and the following if he doesn't progress. It doesn't matter who is on the roster next season.