The Official 2021 Los Angeles Angels Minor League Stats, Reports & Scouting Thread

[Stradling]

13 minutes ago, ScottSted said:

Awful start for Detmers. I thought he might be on a fast track but it looks like he's a September/2022 guy.

Because of his bad start today?

[Chuck]

19 minutes ago, ScottSted said:

Awful start for Detmers. I thought he might be on a fast track but it looks like he's a September/2022 guy.

His velo was way down today (91-92 mph), didn't have his curve with have that 12-6 action, nor was his command there. He could have been fatigued or felt like shit today.

Sometimes pitchers don't have their best stuff. Detmers did however in his last two starts. 

I mean, in his last three starts across 15 2/3 innings, he has struck out 25 batters and has allowed just 3 runs prior to today. 

[Chuck]

 

[Chuck]

51 minutes ago, ScottSted said:

Awful start for Detmers. I thought he might be on a fast track but it looks like he's a September/2022 guy.

 

[ScottM]

Yeah to be clear I’m not concerned at all about him, I still think he can be a great 2-3 but he won’t be one of the straight to MLB college guys like Leake. 

[Angels in 2030]

Those certainly are not cheap Salt Lake HRs Adell has been hitting.  Crushing them 

[Docwaukee]

he didn't two step around 3rd.  

[Blarg]

11 hours ago, Stradling said:

Also Jack Kochanowicz needs a nickname STAT.  Seems like an easy one, JackK or some shit.  What I know is spelling out his last name sucks. 

Kochanutz

[Vlad27Trout27]

koch. simple and clean!

[Tank]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

he didn't two step around 3rd.  

good.

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

I hope he two steps before all the bases next time just to see you guys get your panties all bunched. 

[tdawg87]

Adell still has an OBP below .300.

[Second Base]

10 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Yeah, I'd definitely go Bachman over House, because unlike the conventional wisdom, I do think you should consider need, at least as a tie-breaker and given the uncertainty of drafting prospects.

Meaning, unless a guy stands out as a significantly better talent, a team should consider organizational needs. Meaning, I'd rather the Angels draft a 50 FV catcher than a 55 FV middle infielder or outfielder. Once you get to a +/- 10 FV, I might feel different. So if the best guy available is House and the better pitching prospects are off the table, you go with House over a future #4-5 starter. But if it is similarly talented guys, you go with the one that best serves the org's needs.

 

It's FV a comparative thing? Like is 50 FV OF the same as a 50 FV catcher? Because an average catcher doesn't seem as valuable as an average OF right now. Like your average catcher it's pretty much a platoon partner behind the dish, whereas an average outfielder might be worth 2 wins. 

[Angelsjunky]

10 minutes ago, Second Base said:

It's FV a comparative thing? Like is 50 FV OF the same as a 50 FV catcher? Because an average catcher doesn't seem as valuable as an average OF right now. Like your average catcher it's pretty much a platoon partner behind the dish, whereas an average outfielder might be worth 2 wins. 

FV is based on projected WAR, so a 50 FV OF and catcher are both considered future 2 WAR players. Clearly a 2 WAR catcher is more valuable (usually) and less replaceable than a 2 WAR outfielder.

[Angel Oracle]

I don’t if Miami-Ohio’s stadium is as stingy with offense as LB State’s Blair Field is.

I do know this.

Bachman in nearly 60 innings this season:  1.81 ERA, 0.77 WHIP, ONE HR allowed, 4.5 hits/9 inn, 2.5 BBs/9 inn, and 14 Ks/9 inn

Has he passed Madden by?

Madden has struggled a little in the second half (mid 3.00s ERA), after putting up a 1.70 ERA in the first half.

[Tank]

13 hours ago, Angels_Make_Me_Drink said:

I hope he two steps before all the bases next time just to see you guys get your panties all bunched. 

Leave my panties alone!

[Inside Pitch]

11 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

FV is based on projected WAR, so a 50 FV OF and catcher are both considered future 2 WAR players. Clearly a 2 WAR catcher is more valuable (usually) and less replaceable than a 2 WAR outfielder.

WAR is weighted for each position...   

Weighted stats would mean a 2 WAR catcher and a 2 WAR OF are equally valuable -- it's essentially saying the guy is 2 wins better than any random scrub.  If you look at the last full MLB season there were only 42 OFers in all of MLB out of 137 who managed as many as 250 PAs who posted a 2 fWAR season, so about 30%.  Meanwhile there were only 30 catchers who managed as many as 250 at bats, of which 11 managed to post 2.0 fWAR seasons -- so about 36%.  Kinda nutty but 2 fWAR OFers are actually less common.   

But the rarest beast of all is that catcher that can ring up 600 PAs -- just one (Grandal), compared to 29 OFers, and only 4 who had more than 482 PAs .vs 57 OFs.

Baseball is a trip!

[Inside Pitch]

55 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

I don’t if Miami-Ohio’s stadium is as stingy with offense as LB State’s Blair Field is.

I do know this.

Bachman in nearly 60 innings this season:  1.81 ERA, 0.77 WHIP, ONE HR allowed, 4.5 hits/9 inn, 2.5 BBs/9 inn, and 14 Ks/9 inn

Has he passed Madden by?

Madden has struggled a little in the second half (mid 3.00s ERA), after putting up a 1.70 ERA in the first half.

If it makes you feel any better AO, I've had three different scouts from three different orgs say they aren't so much looking at the numbers this year because the long layoff has led to some skewed stats and there is some uncertainty how to read the traditional stuff.  Instead they are looking at mechanics, spin rate data, movement in general -- so, it's an old school's scouts draft...

[Taylor]

On 5/30/2021 at 7:41 AM, failos said:

I didn’t strike out, I only had a plate appearance.

Your "close and late" numbers are subpar.

[failos]

Just now, Taylor said:

Your "close and late" numbers are subpar.

Small sample size, amigo 

[Angel Oracle]

18 hours ago, Blarg said:

Kochanutz

Groucho Marx approves of this.

[Angelsjunky]

3 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

WAR is weighted for each position...   

Weighted stats would mean a 2 WAR catcher and a 2 WAR OF are equally valuable -- it's essentially saying the guy is 2 wins better than any random scrub.  If you look at the last full MLB season there were only 42 OFers in all of MLB out of 137 who managed as many as 250 PAs who posted a 2 fWAR season, so about 30%.  Meanwhile there were only 30 catchers who managed as many as 250 at bats, of which 11 managed to post 2.0 fWAR seasons -- so about 36%.  Kinda nutty but 2 fWAR OFers are actually less common.   

Hmm...I get what you are saying, but you're taking a very particular angle on it. I wouldn't say that 2 WAR outfielders are less common, only as a percentage of players with 250 PA. There were still only 11 catchers vs. 42 outfielders, which averages out to 14. Meaning, there were 4 more 2 WAR outfielders per position than catchers.

My response to Scotty was merely that an FV 50 player is projected to be an average starter, regardless of position.

3 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

But the rarest beast of all is that catcher that can ring up 600 PAs -- just one (Grandal), compared to 29 OFers, and only 4 who had more than 482 PAs .vs 57 OFs.

Baseball is a trip!

Yes, agreed. It reminds me of my fantasy baseball days when there two or three catchers that went early, then everyone would wait until the late rounds. 

I was fiddling with a chart a couple months ago, where I listed the top ten players by position in career JAWs, which I think is a better indicator of overall greatness than WAR in that it balances peak and longevity. Anyhow, the highest catcher, Johnny Bench with 61.2 JAWs, wasn't even in the top 30 position players--maybe not top 40 (I stopped at #31, who was, of course, Mr Trout with 70.5).

Or to break it down further, here are the number of players by position with higher JAWs than Bench:

1B: 7 

2B: 6 

SS: 6 

3B: 8 

OF: 19 (or 5/7/7)

I think this speaks to just how hard catcher is, especially maintaining a high level over a long period of time. Only six players have played 2000+ games as a catcher: Pudge, Fisk, Boone, Carter, Kendall (a surprise), and Yadier Molina. Yadier will surpass Kendal and Carter this year, although is 201 games behind #3 Boone and 403 behind Pudge. Kurt Suzuki is #38, btw, with 1,456.

As an aside, I was surprised that there were more third baseman than any other position, as it also tends to be an under-represented position in the HoF. But what is interesting to note is that the highest third baseman by Jaws, Mike Schmidt with 82.8, is lower than any other position (next highest is Gehrig with 91.1 among first basemen). Five of the six players with 100+ JAWs are outfielders; only Hornsby wasn't an outfielder. 

 

[Inside Pitch]

18 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Hmm...I get what you are saying, but you're taking a very particular angle on it. I wouldn't say that 2 WAR outfielders are less common, only as a percentage of players with 250 PA. There were still only 11 catchers vs. 42 outfielders, which averages out to 14. Meaning, there were 4 more 2 WAR outfielders per position than catchers.

My response to Scotty was merely that an FV 50 player is projected to be an average starter, regardless of position.

 

I brought up the 250 PAs because 2.0 WAR was being used as the barometer.  It's a counting stat, so playtime impacts that final number and play time at catcher tends to be different.

Appreciate you clarifying your intent but I only responded because you stated point blank a 2.0 WAR catcher is more valuable. That's not how that statistic works.  A 2.0 WAR catcher is worth exactly as much as a 2.0 WAR OFer.   By it's very definition both are worth 2.0 wins above a random player at their positions. 

Don't mind me, I'm probably guilty of being a stickler or pedantic.

All I know is I'd rather have a catcher worthy and capable of getting 600 PAs.

Also baseball is a trip ... Catchers are just a different animal that IMO can't be judged like every other position and we need no further proof of that than Jeff Mathis' 16 years in MLB

Also LOL at the Angels "defense"....

 

[Angelsjunky]

4 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

I brought up the 250 PAs because 2.0 WAR was being used as the barometer.  It's a counting stat, so playtime impacts that final number and play time at catcher tends to be different.

Appreciate you clarifying your intent but I only responded because you stated point blank a 2.0 WAR catcher is more valuable. That's not how that statistic works.  A 2.0 WAR catcher is worth exactly as much as a 2.0 WAR OFer.   By it's very definition both are worth 2.0 wins above a random player at their positions. 

Don't mind me, I'm probably guilty of being a stickler or pedantic.

All I know is I'd rather have a catcher worthy and capable of getting 600 PAs.

Also baseball is a trip ... Catchers are just a different animal that IMO can't be judged like every other position and we need no further proof of that than Jeff Mathis' 16 years in MLB

Also LOL at the Angels "defense"....

 

Perhaps "more valuable" isn't quite right, but my point was simply about the relative scarcity of decent catchers - not only in general but in the Angels organization. But you're right, a lot of it has to do with playing time. Also, I only used 2 WAR as an "average regular," which is what a 50 FV prospect is supposed to become.

While it is never so simple, all things being equal, right now I'd take a 50 FV catcher over any position except for SP.

But yeah, catchers are the most distinct of the positions. I think, also, that WAR isn't very reliable. I like the fact that Fangraphs gave catchers a boost a couple years ago, but it almost seems like they went too far the other direction. I'm just not sure that Russell Martin and Brian McCann are borderline Hall of Famers--they're 10th and 12th in career WAR among catchers! Or compare their bWAR vs fWAR:

Martin: 38.8, 55.2

McCann: 31.9, 54.5

The BR numbers look more accurate to how I remember them as players: good to very good, but not really stars.

[Tank]

6 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Groucho Marx approves of this.