The Official 2021 Los Angeles Angels Minor League Stats, Reports & Scouting Thread

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Yes, agreed. But again, all other things but velocity being equal, Detmers at 95 is a better pitcher than Detmers at 92. I think that's what has people excited. 

I'd like to see a few starts with his newfound velo before making that judgment. If he's still working ahead in the count, hitting his spots and had that bit of sink to good fastball that he had in college, with 95 velo then yeah, I'll agree with it. 

Sacrifice any of those and I'd rather have the 92. 

[rafibomb]

 

 

[Docwaukee]

of course it's assuming that the velo for Detmers is an add and not an in lieu of.  This isn't our first conversation about baseball.  If he's throwing 95 and it's all over the place then no shit it's not a good thing.  If his command and movement hold then adding 3-4 mph to your fastball is a great thing.  BTW, it's not just the curve and change but he's actually been throwing a nasty slider which is new.  It's got late break and depth.  Almost like a cutter with more movement and is almost touching what his fastball was before.  

And let's be clear.  Detmers was 88-92 out of college.  Now he's 93-96.  He's throwing a ton of strikes and missing bats with that heater up in the zone.  A lot.  You still can't make mistakes in the zone at an velo in mlb, but you'll get away with a hell of a lot more at 95 than you will at 91.  

And again, Detmers has four pitches.  All of which he can either throw for strikes or what looks like it's gonna be a strike.  Personally, I've always considered each pitch as two.  The one you throw in the zone for a strike and the one you throw out of the zone for the swing and miss.  We've talked about the whole vs. the sum of the parts in the past.  I have seen 95+ up above the zone and on the corners.  89 mph sliders back leg on righties for swings and misses.  Started at the right hip on lefties for strikes.  Change's ups that fall off a table on the outer half for swings and misses at 83mph.  Curve balls that start at a lefties head at 82 mph.  To me they all look like they're coming from the same arm slot.  A couple outings he was trying to get a feel for all his pitches and missed with his breaking/offspeed and grooved a couple fastballs because he was behind.  

He's in AA out of college so it's his first taste of pro ball.  He'll get better at knowing what he's got that day and trying to get a fell for stuff as he goes.  He hasn't even had much time with his new repertoire.   

[Chuck]

https://www.mlb.com/news/reid-detmers-fans-10-in-fourth-pro-start?t=mlb-pipeline-coverage

[Inside Pitch]

9 hours ago, Second Base said:

League wide k rates have climbed significantly since 2016, which doesn't disprove your point, but it does add important clarity.

As does the reality that velocity has likewise been climbing.  The two things are directly related to each other.

9 hours ago, Second Base said:

We can also ask the pitchers themselves what the difference is between success and non-success and most of them will readily admit that it's working ahead in the count and creating more movement and more deception in their pitches. 

You're throwing things out there that aren't in question.  

Pretty sure if you ask any of those pitchers who would talk up the importance of working ahead, movement, and deception if they believe doing all that AND adding velocity would help?  There is a reason why so many sites run graphs showing performance spikes and crashes alongside velocity data.  

As I said previously, I get the point you're making.   If all you're saying is that velocity is great so long as a pitcher isn't sacrificing other factors that are directly responsible for his success then I think that's a statement everyone would agree with. 

A guy that sacrifices movement for velocity is likely going to hurt himself.  The trick for Detmers, any pitcher really is to add velocity while also continuing to do the things that have already brought them success.  I think that's a premise everyone can get behind.
 

7 hours ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

I will say that Command is much more important than Velocity. 

One needs to differentiate between command and control..   Command is significantly more important to a guy throwing 88 than one throwing 95.   Control more important to the guy throwing 95.

7 hours ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

Canning, has the upside of two, throws harder than Weaves, I would say is offseep did take step forward since he was drafted, but he lacks the command that Weaver had. 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/griffin-canning-656288?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

Check the data.   Canning has seen his velocity go up slightly and his command/control worsen on the FB and yet the pitch has been more valuable.   Hitters are chasing pitches out the zone at a greater clip than they were last year but still below where they did in 19...  Guess what's driving the rebound?  An uptick in velocity across the board from last year.

On the season Canning is getting more first pitch K calls than at any point in his career.  Swing and Whiff rates are all career highs.  Dude's problem has been a lack of control AND allowing HRs.  

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

As does the reality that velocity has likewise been climbing.  The two things are directly related to each other.

You're throwing things out there that aren't in question.  

Pretty sure if you ask any of those pitchers who would talk up the importance of working ahead, movement, and deception if they believe doing all that AND adding velocity would help?  There is a reason why so many sites run graphs showing performance spikes and crashes alongside velocity data.  

As I said previously, I get the point you're making.   If all you're saying is that velocity is great so long as a pitcher isn't sacrificing other factors that are directly responsible for his success then I think that's a statement everyone would agree with. 

A guy that sacrifices movement for velocity is likely going to hurt himself.  The trick for Detmers, any pitcher really is to add velocity while also continuing to do the things that have already brought them success.  I think that's a premise everyone can get behind.
 

One needs to differentiate between command and control..   Command is significantly more important to a guy throwing 88 than one throwing 95.   Control more important to the guy throwing 95.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/griffin-canning-656288?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

Check the data.   Canning has seen his velocity go up slightly and his command/control worsen on the FB and yet the pitch has been more valuable.   Hitters are chasing pitches out the zone at a greater clip than they were last year but still below where they did in 19...  Guess what's driving the rebound?  An uptick in velocity across the board from last year.

On the season Canning is getting more first pitch K calls than at any point in his career.  Swing and Whiff rates are all career highs.  Dude's problem has been a lack of control AND allowing HRs.  

I would say then that the hr rates for canning or hard hit rates might be due to a lack of command then.  It's interesting that he's essentially abandoned the cutter and is pretty much going with three pitches with the fourth pitch now the curve which he's throwing a little more often.  For canning I feel like sequencing is ultra important because his pitch velos are so similar.  

I think we all know that fastball velo by itself is meaningless.  I don't know of any pitcher in recent times who goes out and throws 101 without any secondary pitches and had success.  Hell, the only one pitch pitcher I've ever really seen in Rivera and we all know he really threw like 4 different versions of that same pitch.  

I will also add on Detmers that of course he needs to do what he was doing but the increased velo also adds ways for him to get guys out and we've seen that already.  How many of those K's from the videos we're watching are on fastballs up in the zone now?  The ball is getting on guys super quick.  I bet his ability to do that would be much less effective if that fastball up was 91/92 as opposed to 95/96.  He still has to pitch and it's gonna take a bit for him to get used to how to use that new found velo to his advantage.  Maybe it took him all of three starts to figure it out.  HA!  

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I think we all know that fastball velo by itself is meaningless.  I don't know of any pitcher in recent times who goes out and throws 101 without any secondary pitches and had success.  Hell, the only one pitch pitcher I've ever really seen in Rivera and we all know he really threw like 4 different versions of that same pitch.  

Jeff Juden is pretty much by himself the reason I have never believed FB velo was the end all be all that some made it.  Dude could throw a ball through a wall, and he had a slider that made the FB look like a weak pitch.  But he would sit there throwing 96 MPH FLATballs he had no idea where they were going and just get pounded.

Kinda funny but years after he retired, I meet a guy who claimed he had known him since childhood, and before I could even get started he blurts out "dumbest human being ever".

[Docwaukee]

11 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Jeff Juden is pretty much by himself the reason I have never believed FB velo was the end all be all that some made it.  Dude could throw a ball through a wall, and he had a slider that made the FB look like a weak pitch.  But he would sit there throwing 96 MPH FLATballs he had no idea where they were going and just get pounded.

Kinda funny but years after he retired, I meet a guy who claimed he had known him since childhood, and before I could even get started he blurts out "dumbest human being ever".

I thought you always talked about how excited you were when the Angels signed him? 

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

I thought you always talked about how excited you were when the Angels signed him? 

Poor @Tank   

He sat through all my Jeff Juden, Omar Olivares, and Gary Disarcina rants.

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

Poor @Tank   

He sat through all my Jeff Juden, Omar Olivares, and Gary Disarcina rants.

no wonder he became a vegetarian.  

[Inside Pitch]

Oh and Terry Collins/Larry Bowa.  Man did I hate those guys.

[Tank]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Poor @Tank   

He sat through all my Jeff Juden, Omar Olivares, and Gary Disarcina rants.

LOL jeff juden, the big blonde wonderboy who looked like he was moving in slow motion and every step was a painful one. The Allen Watson years were not kind to us as fans.

But you (and Joe) were also the first person to teach me about some of the newer stats like OBP, Slg%, and OPS. I remain grateful for that, along with piling into my SUV for pregame taco tuesday at el torito and making brian sit in the car seat for my daughter.

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, Tank said:

But you (and Joe) were also the first person to teach me about some of the newer stats like OBP, Slg%, and OPS. I remain grateful for that, along with piling into my SUV for pregame taco tuesday at el torito and making brian sit in the car seat for my daughter.

I miss Brian, I actually reached out to Joe the other day -- waiting to hear back.

[Tank]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

I miss Brian, I actually reached out to Joe the other day -- waiting to hear back.

joe was a really smart guy. he did a ton of research on pitch counts and pitcher abuse, stuff most of us had never heard of or thought about.

if he responds, tell him i said hey.

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Tank

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, Tank said:

joe was a really smart guy. he did a ton of research on pitch counts and pitcher abuse, stuff most of us had never heard of or thought about.

Yeah, I kinda led the charge on pitcher abuse and he jumped all over it.  We were both very early on the notion of what we used to call "pitcher shock".   It was neat to see how over time a lot of the stuff we were openly questioning became common across MLB.

Do you remember Stephen Smith telling me I was an idiot when it came to pitcher usage because of something he had heard Howie Gersherg say about pitchers needing to be able to go deep into games completely unaware that I was actually pretty tight with Howie.   Best part was how after he told me how wrong I was and how all my data was made up fantasy baseball talk, he then did a near cut and paste of my argument with him regarding pitcher injuries in the Angels farm system that got printed in Baseball America as if it had been his own...  Same dude who threatened lawsuits whenever someone used a picture he took without permission.

Funny times.

 

[Angelsjunky]

Is Stephen Smith still writing about baseball?

[Chuck]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Is Stephen Smith still writing about baseball?

No. His last article was in 2011 and he shut down his website. https://mlblogsfutureangels.wordpress.com/

This dude completely dropped the ball with Angels fans online going back to the 90's and through his final days on the net. He was pompous and an absolute jerk. The guy even got one of our friends back on the Delphi Angels forum (LA Times Refugees Forum) fired from his job and tried to get me fired a few years later. 

Speaking of dropping the ball, I'm guessing he dropped the ball in this photo. Good riddance to one of the biggest dicks online! 

[Angelsjunky]

8 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

No. His last article was in 2011 and he shut down his website. https://mlblogsfutureangels.wordpress.com/

This dude completely dropped the ball with Angels fans online going back to the 90's and through his final days on the net. He was pompous and an absolute jerk. The guy even got one of our friends back on the Delphi Angels forum (LA Times Refugees Forum) fired from his job and tried to get me fired a few years later. 

Speaking of dropping the ball, I'm guessing he dropped the ball in this photo. Good riddance to one of the biggest dicks online! 

What a class act.

Speaking of Delphi, who is still around from there? Has Big Del posted here in recent years? I vaguely remember him dropping in early on, but unless he's changed his name I haven't seen him on here, maybe not even this version of the forums. 

[Chuck]

1 minute ago, Angelsjunky said:

What a class act.

Speaking of Delphi, who is still around from there? Has Big Del posted here in recent years? I vaguely remember him dropping in early on, but unless he's changed his name I haven't seen him on here, maybe not even this version of the forums. 

@Pablo (RIP) is no longer with us, there's you, @ScottT, @Salome and there was Big Del. Tony (BigDel) got busy with work and they didn't allow outside internet access, he was super close with his daughters and they were very active in sports & after years in Cincy he decided to shun the Angels and become a Reds fan. lol We used to be connected to Facebook but he got super weird so it was an easy unfriend choice. 

Jvelick if I'm remembering his name correctly got fired from his job when he called Stephen out a few times on the forum for being a dick, so he found out where he worked and sent an scandalous email to his boss.

[Inside Pitch]

53 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

What a class act.

I don't know of a single person I came across back in the day that didn't have some awful story to tell about the guy.  

[Angel Oracle]

5 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Jeff Juden is pretty much by himself the reason I have never believed FB velo was the end all be all that some made it.  Dude could throw a ball through a wall, and he had a slider that made the FB look like a weak pitch.  But he would sit there throwing 96 MPH FLATballs he had no idea where they were going and just get pounded.

Kinda funny but years after he retired, I meet a guy who claimed he had known him since childhood, and before I could even get started he blurts out "dumbest human being ever".

Another straight as an arrow fire baller  was Billy Koch.

Straight as an arrow 100mph heat

When the A’s most needed him (game 5, 2002 ALDS), he gave up 3 9th inning runs to make it 5-1, Twins.

Of course, Mark Ellis hits a Jimmy Jack in the bottom of the 9th to make it 5-4.

[Blarg]

On 5/25/2021 at 4:23 PM, Chuckster70 said:

To the Low-A Inland Empire 66er's club from the alt site in Arizona. 

Dang, I need to squeeze in some 66er action in between my work schedule. Knowles, Jackson, Paris all on the same squad could be pretty fun to watch. 

[Stradling]

Any chance we see Paris end up in the top 100 this year?

[John Smith]

Trent Rush Retweeted

 

 

 

Josh Caray

 

@BigPoppaPanda

 

 

For all the talk about Reid Detmers, don't forget about RHP Kyle Tyler. He's tossed 15.1 consecutive innings of scoreless ball over his last three outings. Allowed two hits over six frames in a 1-0 win over a good hitting Birmingham team

@trashpandas

@Angels

[Chuck]

50 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Any chance we see Paris end up in the top 100 this year?

I think if he can come back from whatever injury he has soon and continue doing what he's doing, he totally can. 

His stats remind me of a young Jose Reyes who was slashing a bunch of triples and doubles, stealing a ton of bases and getting on base at a great clip.