Trade Adell (+ club control through 2026) for Snell (3 years, $42M left on contract) straight up?

[angelsnationtalk]

40 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Instead of Snell, perhaps we should just look into acquiring pitchers from organizations that we know are desperately trying to unload payroll - the Cubs.

Darvish likely has a fairly reasonable trade cost that doesn't involve Adell or Marsh.  We can build a trade around Jackson, Thaiss, Barria, and a lower tier prospect.  We can ask the Cubs to absorb ~10mil (~3.3mil per year) of his remaining contract.

Should leave plenty of room to add another SP as well as other pieces that we need.

 

Throw in Adams if we ask them to absorb $.

[floplag]

12 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

I think it'd a little too bold if they got Bauer and Realmuto. Not possible

Theres busting the budget and then there is obliterating it.  Id love it, but i dont think its feasible.

[CanadianHalo]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

Instead of Snell, perhaps we should just look into acquiring pitchers from organizations that we know are desperately trying to unload payroll - the Cubs.

Darvish likely has a fairly reasonable trade cost that doesn't involve Adell or Marsh.  We can build a trade around Jackson, Thaiss, Barria, and a lower tier prospect.  We can ask the Cubs to absorb ~10mil (~3.3mil per year) of his remaining contract.

Should leave plenty of room to add another SP as well as other pieces that we need.

 

I really like Darvish, always have. I sat right behind home plate specifically to watch him pitch. I think Darvish makes a ton of sense overall for the Angels. With no hard cap in baseball and a lack of top end prospects, I think the best route is to spend money now for the possibility of long term success with a lesser budget.

If Arte spends now and allows the farm to build he’ll potentially end up getting back what he spent these next 2 seasons. With so many teams apparently looking to cut payroll, now is the time for Arte to pounce. 

With Albert coming off the books after this year and Upton the year following, he’d be stretching the budget for 2 years max if all goes well.

But... as always, not my money.

[floplag]

11 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

What if we just keep our top prospect and use money to get the pitcher we need. 

I think the point is that this route gets us two, not one, assuming Bauer also signed.
The trade alone might be more financially realistic.
It comes down to whether or not hes willing to bust it for a year or so... if hes not, then Bauer isnt an option at all. 

[Hubs]

I would do a deal that gets us Darvish and Contreras. But that’s unlikely. 
 

I think they should examine all options but what about trying to get Marquez and Blackmon? 
 

That likely costs Adell but not much else if they take on the majority of Blackmon’s contract. I’d assume the Rockies eat $5 to get better prospects.

 

Who wouldn’t do Adell, Thaiss, Sandoval, Rojas, and Barretto for Marquez and Blackmon plus $5 M in 2021 and 2022.

 

They’d have to likely also trade Trevor Story and Nolan Arenado for prospects and rebuild. They could likely get Ruiz, Gray and more from the Dodgers for Arenado and get some solid players from the Blue Jays Or someone else for Story.

[floplag]

So i did a little more reading on this to see if my knee jerk reaction was right.

Heres the thing, you take away one really strong season in 18, and hes going to have a career ERA of something like 3.6-3.75, WHIP around 1.3, and a fairly neutral GB/FB ratio with about a 3.5 K/BB and about 10 K per 9.  Hes signed for 3 more years for a total of about 38M (10.5, 12.5, and 16) for his age 29-32 seasons

Basically Bundy was better last year in general but they would be comparable.

My biggest concern wit him is innings pitched.   Last season he pitched only 50 innings in 11 starts.  Over his career hes only averaged about 5.1 ip per start if my math is right.

So the question is, is that worth the #1 prospect?

My updated answer is this, No, not by itself.  Would he by himself make a massive difference, or enough of a difference?  

Now IF we sign Bauer first, then make this deal, creating a rotation of Bauer, Bundy, Snell, Heaney, Canning with Barria, Sandoval etc as depth... i like it, a lot.  But im not sure i overpay on this one.   I think there might be other deals to look at that might make more sense if it comes to that.

[Angel Oracle]

One thought regarding possible Marquez/Adell trade: at Coors Canaveral, pitches don’t break as much in the thin air.

Wouldn’t that make Adell more appealing to the Rockies?

Marquez and Blackmon is intriguing.

[Angel Oracle]

Three concerns with Blackmon:

He’s 34 in 2021.  His SBs have drastically dropped.  His home/road numbers differences are extreme.

He does hit both lefties and righties well.

He does have one firm contract year at $21 million remaining plus two player option years ($21 million, and $10-18 million based on 2018-2022 performance.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[Cosmo_Kramer]

The deal would never be straight up. Too risky for teams to do that.

I'd do it though

[ukyah]

On 12/15/2020 at 6:49 AM, Warfarin said:

Instead of Snell, perhaps we should just look into acquiring pitchers from organizations that we know are desperately trying to unload payroll - the Cubs.

Darvish likely has a fairly reasonable trade cost that doesn't involve Adell or Marsh.  We can build a trade around Jackson, Thaiss, Barria, and a lower tier prospect.  We can ask the Cubs to absorb ~10mil (~3.3mil per year) of his remaining contract.

Should leave plenty of room to add another SP as well as other pieces that we need.

 

it'd be great if that were reality, but i don't think it is. here's to hoping though.

[Warfarin]

On 12/15/2020 at 10:13 AM, Hubs said:

I would do a deal that gets us Darvish and Contreras. But that’s unlikely. 
 

I think they should examine all options but what about trying to get Marquez and Blackmon? 
 

That likely costs Adell but not much else if they take on the majority of Blackmon’s contract. I’d assume the Rockies eat $5 to get better prospects.

 

Who wouldn’t do Adell, Thaiss, Sandoval, Rojas, and Barretto for Marquez and Blackmon plus $5 M in 2021 and 2022.

 

They’d have to likely also trade Trevor Story and Nolan Arenado for prospects and rebuild. They could likely get Ruiz, Gray and more from the Dodgers for Arenado and get some solid players from the Blue Jays Or someone else for Story.

Yeah, I mean that's basically a slam dunk trade.  I'd probably push to have Barria put in the deal in place of Sandoval, simply because we need guys with options.  I'd probably ask for the Rockies to pick up 5mil/yr for all 3 of Blacman's years, which makes his cost ~13mil/yr instead of ~18milyr

Still, Blackman can become our RF for now, and Marquez obviously becomes our ace.  Blackman + Marquez combine to add 26mil/yr AAV, minus the 5mil, so that's 21mil/yr.  Still leaves enough room to add someone like Archer, Quintana, etc.  Can probably sign one of them to ~8-10mil/yr.

Fletcher 2B, Walsh 1B, Trout CF, Rendon 3B, Ohtani DH, Upton LF, Blackman RF, Stassi C, Iglesias SS

Marquez, Bundy, Heaney, Quintana, Canning, Ohtani, with Sandoval/Suarez in AAA as depth

Only remaining moves are to find a backup catcher and fill out the bullpen cheaply.

[Stradling]

Problem with Blackman is he doesn’t fit the narrative of run prevention. 

[angelsnationtalk]

On 12/15/2020 at 10:23 AM, floplag said:

So i did a little more reading on this to see if my knee jerk reaction was right.

Heres the thing, you take away one really strong season in 18, and hes going to have a career ERA of something like 3.6-3.75, WHIP around 1.3, and a fairly neutral GB/FB ratio with about a 3.5 K/BB and about 10 K per 9.  Hes signed for 3 more years for a total of about 38M (10.5, 12.5, and 16) for his age 29-32 seasons

Basically Bundy was better last year in general but they would be comparable.

My biggest concern wit him is innings pitched.   Last season he pitched only 50 innings in 11 starts.  Over his career hes only averaged about 5.1 ip per start if my math is right.

So the question is, is that worth the #1 prospect?

My updated answer is this, No, not by itself.  Would he by himself make a massive difference, or enough of a difference?  

Now IF we sign Bauer first, then make this deal, creating a rotation of Bauer, Bundy, Snell, Heaney, Canning with Barria, Sandoval etc as depth... i like it, a lot.  But im not sure i overpay on this one.   I think there might be other deals to look at that might make more sense if it comes to that.

Bauer, Snell, Bundy, Heaney, Canning, Ohtani.

Basically the same, but I agree with what you're saying. 
I honestly wouldn't mind a small overpay in the $28M range. Backload Bauers contract a bit. I'm sure the guy won't sign a huge contract in terms of years. I don't think 4yr/$112M is out of question. 

Backload it a bit so it fits well with the big contracts of Pujols and Upton. This could still help acquire someone like Snell.

I also think Arte wants to wait a bit and see if we will play 162 games. This could impact their "revenue" as they call it  

[Angels 1961]

I would wait to see if you sign Bauer, then you would not trade Adell. See if Ohtani can pitch and if he cannot put him in RF and still have Adell as trade chip. You can sign Bauer trade for Snell and your rotation is set for 3 years and if Ohtani comes back as pitcher that's a hell of a rotation. Many options for Angels will be a very interesting off season. 

[floplag]

1 minute ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Bauer, Snell, Bundy, Heaney, Canning, Ohtani.

Basically the same, but I agree with what you're saying. 
I honestly wouldn't mind a small overpay in the $28M range. Backload Bauers contract a bit. I'm sure the guy won't sign a huge contract in terms of years. I don't think 4yr/$112M is out of question. 

Backload it a bit so it fits well with the big contracts of Pujols and Upton. This could still help acquire someone like Snell.

I also think Arte wants to wait a bit and see if we will play 162 games. This could impact their "revenue" as they call it  

Perhaps, but i hope not... i think many are playing the waiting game, to strike now would get ahead of it.  
As you say backload it a bit to allow time for Pujuls and Upton to finish up, and away we go. 
My issue with this is the overpay though, thats a lot to ask for his numbers.  I almost feel like we would be better off dipping into the tier 2 FA market instead of losing all those prospects even if it is a tier lower than what Snell could be.

[Hubs]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

Problem with Blackman is he doesn’t fit the narrative of run prevention. 

Yes but he’s a power lefty bat. And taking him gets you Marquez.

[Hubs]

2 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

I would wait to see if you sign Bauer, then you would not trade Adell. See if Ohtani can pitch and if he cannot put him in RF and still have Adell as trade chip. You can sign Bauer trade for Snell and your rotation is set for 3 years and if Ohtani comes back as pitcher that's a hell of a rotation. Many options for Angels will be a very interesting off season. 

Ohtani is not playing the OF no matter how many times you post it. 

[Capital_Dave]

11 hours ago, Cosmo_Kramer said:

The deal would never be straight up. Too risky for teams to do that.

I'd do it though

"Challenge Trades" do happen... 

[Angels 1961]

2 hours ago, Hubs said:

Ohtani is not playing the OF no matter how many times you post it. 

So again question if Ohtani is unable to pitch again what do you do with him? He is too talented to be just a DH.

[tdawg87]

8 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

So again question if Ohtani is unable to pitch again what do you do with him? 

I get it now. It's genious. 

If he can't pitch, we put him in the OF where he'll have to make stronger throws than he would from the mound. No one will expect it!

[ettin]

1 hour ago, Angels 1961 said:

So again question if Ohtani is unable to pitch again what do you do with him? He is too talented to be just a DH.

 

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

I get it now. It's genious. 

If he can't pitch, we put him in the OF where he'll have to make stronger throws than he would from the mound. No one will expect it!

Feel like this subject is being approached from both sides at the extremes. Ohtani has played RF before so it is not an unknown to him and the throwing part should be no different than the pitching part. Additionally, from a roster building perspective it could possibly solve issues related to RF if, hypothetically, the Angels used Adell to acquire a frontline starter.

All that being said I think it is a low, low probability as Ohtani's health issues, particularly arm-related ones, will hold the Angels back from using him in this secondary capacity if they are still trying to have him pitch, like they should be doing, thus making this whole conversation about playing him in RF a non-starter for the most part.

So, @Angels 1961, as much as this idea sounds interesting, particularly because of his history and ability to hit, I seriously doubt it happens based on Ohtani's continuing health issues related to his arm and the Angels primary need for him to act as a frontline starter, more than playing the field.

[tdawg87]

But really though @Angels 1961 is posting this Ohtani shot for the lulz.

[Hubs]

He won’t play the OF in 2021 at least. If he fails to stay healthy as a starter again then maybe you discuss playing a position.

[Lou]

You guys are still responding to A61's Ohtani garbage?

Get your lives together, boys. 

[Angels 1961]

What kind of starter for 42 mill can we get? I'd like to keep Adell such a raw talent. He does need year in minors as he was over matched in 2020. Such a young talent with so much upside so I keep him. Sign Tanaka trade for Gray (Sonny or Jon).