Blake Snell is on the market

[Blarg]

Innings pitched are controlled by the Rays. His ERA reflects the innings pitched but had he been allowed one more inning per game those numbers may drop. You won't know until you allow him to succeed or fail. The Rays are afraid of failure. 

[PattyD22]

6 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Innings pitched are controlled by the Rays. His ERA reflects the innings pitched but had he been allowed one more inning per game those numbers may drop. You won't know until you allow him to succeed or fail. The Rays are afraid of failure. 

And yet Blarg, with that mentality, they failed on the biggest stage in the franchises biggest game.  
 

It’s a slippery slope.  I think in that situation in the WS, you let him pitch.  Dave Roberts knows this scenario (both sides of it) very well.

[totdprods]

17 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Jordyn Adams (4), Jose Soriano (12), Hector Yan (9) and Jack Kochanowicz (13) for Blake Snell and Xavier Edwards. 

That's a ton of talent headed toward Tampa but we get a frontline arm however and a starting 2B. 

We also would still have have Canning, Detmers, Sandoval and C. Rodriguez. 

Tampa says no. Quickly too.

[Dtwncbad]

Everybody would like to have Snell.  And everybody would like to keep Adell.

I am not sure what people are thinking if they think Tampa would make a deal that doesn’t include Adell.

If Adell is too much to pay for a 27 year old front line starter with three more years of very affordable control, then what pitcher are you seriously thinking you are going to get for Adell?

Given the make up of the current Angel roster, the next three years is very, very important.

It is more important, by far, to have a Snell for the next three years than it is to have an Adell.

Yes he might end up a superstar.  And he might also end up being a glorified Cameron Maybin.  We don’t know, and you just gotta be comfortable with the range of possible outcomes on Adell, just as you have be comfortable with the range of outcomes with Snell (a couple of CY awards/lead the Angels to a ring, or TJ surgery three months into 2021).

Both teams have to believe they have the upside they need for their situation.

I dig having all the excitement of such a great prospect, but in the end he is a resource the team needs to use as best it can to create a winning mlb roster.

It is very reasonable to conclude that the best way to use this resource is to acquire a guy like Snell.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Dtwncbad

[Chuck]

12 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Tampa says no. Quickly too.

Then....

[Blarg]

2 minutes ago, PattyD22 said:

And yet Blarg, with that mentality, they failed on the biggest stage in the franchises biggest game.  

The World Series is usually highlighted by one player going above and beyond to take a pivotal game. That is the excitement of a game seven. I believe Cash stripped his team of momentum that would have carried over to the following innings and put more pressure on the Dodgers. They certainly were glad to see Snell gone. 

Snell definitely resented being treated like a wet behind the ears rookie with no resume of success. I don't blame him if he asked for a trade. The problem the Angels have is that quality of pitcher with 3 years of control at a young age is going to interest 28 other teams. That's a lot of competition on the trade market, even the A's might be in on it. 

[gotbeer]

14 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

 

If Adell is too much to pay for a 27 year old front line starter with three more years of very affordable control, then what pitcher are you seriously thinking you are going to get for Adell?

 

Personally, if we are giving up Adell.  I'd rather trade for Lindor and McKenzie.   Cleveland can't afford Lindor after this season.  Cleveland also needs OF help badly and have plenty of young pitching depth.  McKenzie has question marks.  But when you have 6 years control, a pretty phenomenal minor league record, and a shortened callup to the bigs that result in a 3.24 ERA, 0.90 WHIP, and 142 ERA+.  It would be a pretty fair trade.  

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, gotbeer said:

Personally, if we are giving up Adell.  I'd rather trade for Lindor and McKenzie.   Cleveland can't afford Lindor after this season.  Cleveland also needs OF help badly and have plenty of young pitching depth.  McKenzie has question marks.  But when you have 6 years control, a pretty phenomenal minor league record, and a shortened callup to the bigs that result in a 3.24 ERA, 0.90 WHIP, and 142 ERA+.  It would be a pretty fair trade.  

This is the favorite deal I’ve dreamt up so far as well. Think it’s pretty fair. Probably takes a couple lotto tickets from the Angels but overall I think it would be pretty fair. 

[Taylor]

58 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Jordyn Adams (4), Jose Soriano (12), Hector Yan (9) and Jack Kochanowicz (13) for Blake Snell and Xavier Edwards. 

That's a ton of talent headed toward Tampa but we get a frontline arm however and a starting 2B. 

We also would still have have Canning, Detmers, Sandoval and C. Rodriguez. 

Wouldn't get it done. Just because they're ranked in the top 13 in the Angels' org doesn't mean they're the equivalent of those rankings in other orgs.

It absolutely would require Adell, and possibly Walsh on a sell-high basis.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Taylor

[Taylor]

7 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

McKenzie has question marks.  But when you have 6 years control, a pretty phenomenal minor league record, and a shortened callup to the bigs that result in a 3.24 ERA, 0.90 WHIP, and 142 ERA+.  It would be a pretty fair trade.  

Has he had TJ surgery already?

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

Jordyn Adams (4), Jose Soriano (12), Hector Yan (9) and Jack Kochanowicz (13) for Blake Snell and Xavier Edwards. 

That's a ton of talent headed toward Tampa but we get a frontline arm however and a starting 2B. 

We also would still have have Canning, Detmers, Sandoval and C. Rodriguez. 

That package barely gets you Edwards, let alone Snell AND Edwards. I don't even know if it gets Snell alone.

The Rays aren't going to be giving up a top 100 prospect in a deal where they are trading Blake Snell.

[Warfarin]

18 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

Personally, if we are giving up Adell.  I'd rather trade for Lindor and McKenzie.   Cleveland can't afford Lindor after this season.  Cleveland also needs OF help badly and have plenty of young pitching depth.  McKenzie has question marks.  But when you have 6 years control, a pretty phenomenal minor league record, and a shortened callup to the bigs that result in a 3.24 ERA, 0.90 WHIP, and 142 ERA+.  It would be a pretty fair trade.  

Unfortunately, neither can we.

If we are going to trade Adell, I like the idea of acquiring a young SP like McKenzie, but I'd rather just not acquire Lindor and instead ask for a higher quality player, such as Pleasac.

[failos]

11 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Has he had TJ surgery already?

He will if he signs with the Halos

[gotbeer]

10 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Unfortunately, neither can we.

If we are going to trade Adell, I like the idea of acquiring a young SP like McKenzie, but I'd rather just not acquire Lindor and instead ask for a higher quality player, such as Pleasac.

I doubt the Indians would be looking at trading 2 of their young guns that have 5+ years of control.  That's why Lindor makes more sense, with his pending FA'cy.  On the Angels side, I think if they wanted to, they can afford Lindor.  Pujols is finally off the books after this next season.  Also, it sounds like Minasian is prioritizing D, which Lindor is good at.  But Lindor gets the bonus of being able to hit out of a paper bag, so indirectly that will help pitching with more firepower in an already potent lineup.  

[Warfarin]

2 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

I doubt the Indians would be looking at trading 2 of their young guns that have 5+ years of control.  That's why Lindor makes more sense, with his pending FA'cy.  On the Angels side, I think if they wanted to, they can afford Lindor.  Pujols is finally off the books after this next season.  Also, it sounds like Minasian is prioritizing D, which Lindor is good at.  But Lindor gets the bonus of being able to hit out of a paper bag, so indirectly that will help pitching with more firepower in an already potent lineup.  

Oh - I meant Pleasac only, not both Pleasac and McKenzie.  I know Adell cannot command that kind of return.

[gotbeer]

10 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Oh - I meant Pleasac only, not both Pleasac and McKenzie.  I know Adell cannot command that kind of return.

Pleasac would be a good get.  I guess it would depend on if he's available.  The Lindor/McKenzie trade was suggested by a baseball columnist, so hey, if they think it's possible, that's good enough for me to bring up.

[Chuck]

42 minutes ago, Trendon said:

That package barely gets you Edwards, let alone Snell AND Edwards. I don't even know if it gets Snell alone.

The Rays aren't going to be giving up a top 100 prospect in a deal where they are trading Blake Snell.

 

54 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Wouldn't get it done. Just because they're ranked in the top 13 in the Angels' org doesn't mean they're the equivalent of those rankings in other orgs.

It absolutely would require Adell, and possibly Walsh on a sell-high basis.

Then you don't do it. Hard pass! 

I'm down on Adell but I wouldn't trade him or Marsh for Snell. 

[Taylor]

4 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Then you don't do it. Hard pass! 

I'm down on Adell but I wouldn't trade him or Marsh for Snell. 

Last year, I would have agreed with you. But this team desperately needs an ace, and Snell would fit that bill perfectly. They need a solid SP more than they need an OFer who can hit. I say this as someone who really, really likes Adell and wants to see him succeed as an Angel.

[Warfarin]

4 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Last year, I would have agreed with you. But this team desperately needs an ace, and Snell would fit that bill perfectly. They need a solid SP more than they need an OFer who can hit. I say this as someone who really, really likes Adell and wants to see him succeed as an Angel.

I think context is important as to whether or not a trade makes sense for us, at least in terms of a contention window.

If we had a really solid team that was an ace pitcher away from being a legit WS team?  Absolutely, I'd trade Adell for Snell.  I think Adell is "worth" Snell.

But for us, given where we are and how many holes we still have, we are not a "Snell away" from being a legit WS team, which is why I do not do it.

We need to build our core moving forward.  I would trade Adell for Pleasac, Dustin May, Ian Anderson, etc - young, stud pitchers who have years of control remaining and are in the cheap years of their career.  Snell, as good as he is, is definitely undervalued but not exactly cheap, and he has only 3 years of control left.  Again, given where we are in our contention window (not yet there), I would not trade Adell for Snell.

[Chuck]

23 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Last year, I would have agreed with you. But this team desperately needs an ace, and Snell would fit that bill perfectly. They need a solid SP more than they need an OFer who can hit. I say this as someone who really, really likes Adell and wants to see him succeed as an Angel.

I just don't like how fragile Snell is and the dude rarely goes 6 innings. 

That's a tough sell for me to deal a top prospect for a 5-inning guy with injury issues. 

[Taylor]

20 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I just don't like how fragile Snell is and the dude rarely goes 6 innings. 

That's a tough sell for me to deal a top prospect for a 5-inning guy with injury issues. 

Apparently he rarely goes 6 innings because of TB's strict policies for pitchers.

[PattyD22]

20 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I just don't like how fragile Snell is and the dude rarely goes 6 innings. 

That's a tough sell for me to deal a top prospect for a 5-inning guy with injury issues. 

Is it more fragility Chuck, or more managerial philosophy?  I ask because  I don’t follow the Rays, but from everything I heard during the playoffs and World Series, the 6 inning stuff was more on Cash and less on the durability of the starters arms.  Plus, their bullpen was lights out (except when Cash really needed them to be).

[Blarg]

25 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Last year, I would have agreed with you. But this team desperately needs an ace, and Snell would fit that bill perfectly. They need a solid SP more than they need an OFer who can hit. I say this as someone who really, really likes Adell and wants to see him succeed as an Angel.

Two years from now you will be screaming we need outfielders and only have one year left on Snell. You don't trade your two best outfield prospects for one pitcher with a 3 year shelf life. This is where you have to pick one from column A and one from B, C and D. Otherwise you are spinning your wheels creating a long term cohesive roster, creating two holes to fill one. 

[Erstad Grit]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

Everybody would like to have Snell.  And everybody would like to keep Adell.

I am not sure what people are thinking if they think Tampa would make a deal that doesn’t include Adell.

If Adell is too much to pay for a 27 year old front line starter with three more years of very affordable control, then what pitcher are you seriously thinking you are going to get for Adell?

Given the make up of the current Angel roster, the next three years is very, very important.

It is more important, by far, to have a Snell for the next three years than it is to have an Adell.

Yes he might end up a superstar.  And he might also end up being a glorified Cameron Maybin.  We don’t know, and you just gotta be comfortable with the range of possible outcomes on Adell, just as you have be comfortable with the range of outcomes with Snell (a couple of CY awards/lead the Angels to a ring, or TJ surgery three months into 2021).

Both teams have to believe they have the upside they need for their situation.

I dig having all the excitement of such a great prospect, but in the end he is a resource the team needs to use as best it can to create a winning mlb roster.

It is very reasonable to conclude that the best way to use this resource is to acquire a guy like Snell.

I want Snell and would sent Adell in a second. 

Snell is entering his prime. 3 years extremely affordable cy young type SP. At year 3 if things haven't gone well we can trade him at the deadline or give a QO. 

Adell is a much bigger risk. I'm tired of the Trout rookie year comparisons. No-one should be compared to Trout outside of names like Mantle at this point. For every Trout they're hundreds of Wood, Mcpherson, etc.

I'm not down on Adell but if you can get Snell then hurry it up and sign someone like Joc Pederson. 

 

[Blarg]

2 minutes ago, PattyD22 said:

Is it more fragility Chuck, or more managerial philosophy?  I ask because  I don’t follow the Rays, but from everything I heard during the playoffs and World Series, the 6 inning stuff was more on Cash and less on the durability of the starters arms.  Plus, their bullpen was lights out (except when Cash really needed them to be).

@Inside Pitch